Question for the YECs

[Critias]

I will take this to mean that you really don't know what those verses are describing or why they are in there.

Believe whatever you want. Makes no difference to me.

 

[shernren]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that. You could use that same imagery now and it wouldn't conflict with a round, spherical earth. Yes it fits with a flat earth worldview, but it does not demand one. Even the ancient author didn't think God actually grabbed the earth and shook it around like an etch-a-sketch till all the bad people fell off.

However, you will notice that AnswersinHovind said nothing regarding the following verses concerning storehouses of water in heaven. That is an undisputable ancient world view.

(emphasis added) Of course it doesn't contradict a round, spherical earth. But I believe that's called a figurative interpretation.

The real beef of the problem is this: given no other prior beliefs about the shape of the earth, what would this passage suggest to you the shape of the earth is? I think it would suggest a flat earth to me and to any other intellectually honest Christian.

But this is the kind of hermeneutic that, to the best of my knowledge, YECs propose: that our scientific knowledge should be moderated by our Biblical readings, that whatever reason we might have for favoring one theory over another should be discarded before we get to the Bible. See eg AnswersInHovind on another thread:

I think you have things backwards. You are looking to creation to interpret scripture. That seems to be the opposite of the Biblical author's intentions. You should be using the Bible to change your view of the world, not the world to change your view of the Bible.

According to him, we should do our best to have no prior beliefs about the age of the Earth or the origins of life before reading Genesis. Similarly, we should have no prior beliefs about the shape of the Earth on reading Job. But if we do that, we quite literally end up with a flat-earth cosmology.

 

[philadiddle]

Believe whatever you want. Makes no difference to me.

Hey don't sweat it. So you haven't made sense of the creation account yet from a literal point of view, we understand. Learning the theology of the creation account is a life long process. I'm sure many people here will help you understand what the creation account is explaining from a theological perspective and how it applies to you in the present. You just have to be willing to explore the text beyond a newspaper style reading.

 

[Critias]

Hey don't sweat it. So you haven't made sense of the creation account yet from a literal point of view, we understand. Learning the theology of the creation account is a life long process. I'm sure many people here will help you understand what the creation account is explaining from a theological perspective and how it applies to you in the present. You just have to be willing to explore the text beyond a newspaper style reading.

You represent TE's well.

 

[pastorkevin73]

Hey don't sweat it. So you haven't made sense of the creation account yet from a literal point of view, we understand. Learning the theology of the creation account is a life long process. I'm sure many people here will help you understand what the creation account is explaining from a theological perspective and how it applies to you in the present. You just have to be willing to explore the text beyond a newspaper style reading.

Hmmm. Funny! Newspaper style reading. That's what I thought you were doing with the creation account.

 

[Siyha]

Hmmm. Funny! Newspaper style reading.
That's what I thought you were doing with the creation account.

While I'm sure its fun having this little back and forth with Philadiddle, I'm wondering what you think of post #32, where I've given a brief introduction to how I view Genesis 1.

 

[philadiddle]

You represent TE's well.

The funny part of it is that when Juv asked me to explain what those references to the waters above the firmament meant I was able to do it. So far Juv at least attempted to answer with his ad hoc reply, but aside from that you and pastorkevin have been avoiding the issue with generalizations about my character. Whether my tactics are honorable or not, I'm able to explain the scripture in question. Whether your tactics are honorable or not, you seem to have no idea how to handle this scriputre.

 

[philadiddle]

Hmmm. Funny! Newspaper style reading. That's what I thought you were doing with the creation account.

So let's forget about the personal badgering and discuss scripture. Do you know what the word "firmament" is referring to in Gen chapter 1, and can you provide your sources?

 

[Duckybill]

Do you accept what God said when He said that there is water above the sun, moon, and stars? Or was God lying?

Pardon my ignorance but what is YEC?

 

[shernren]

Young Earth Creationist.

 

[Duckybill]

Young Earth Creationist.

Thanks!

 

[depthdeception]

Do you accept what God said when He said that there is water above the sun, moon, and stars? Or was God lying?

How do you know God said that?

 

[Siyha]

How do you know God said that?

Genesis 1:7-8 (NASB)

God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8God called the expanse heaven [שׁמים]. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day

שָׁמַיִם = heaven, sky, or firmament.

This would mean to say that, at the very least, there is water above the sky, and at most there is water beyond the sun moon and stars.

 

[depthdeception]

Genesis 1:7-8 (NASB)

God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8God called the expanse heaven [שׁמים]. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day

שָׁמַיִם = heaven, sky, or firmament.

This would mean to say that, at the very least, there is water above the sky, and at most there is water beyond the sun moon and stars.

I don't really see how this answers my question...?

 

[philadiddle]

I don't really see how this answers my question...?

From Genesis chapter 1:

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
...
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

So basically, there are waters above the firmament (verse 7), and God set the sun, moon and stars (verse 16) in the firmament (verse 17). This would mean that there are waters above the sun, moon and stars.

 

[juvenissun]

From Genesis chapter 1:

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
...
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

So basically, there are waters above the firmament (verse 7), and God set the sun, moon and stars (verse 16) in the firmament (verse 17). This would mean that there are waters above the sun, moon and stars.

Are you really staying at the level of the OP after all the discussions?

 

[Siyha]

Are you really staying at the level of the OP after all the discussions?

Nobody has responded to it other than, "Maybe Plasma?" so why shouldn't he try and get an answer.

 

[philadiddle]

Are you really staying at the level of the OP after all the discussions?

It hasn't moved beyond that point yet. Though kudos to you for at least trying. The other creationists in this thread haven't even attempted to answer it.

 

[Critias]

Whether your tactics are honorable or not, you seem to have no idea how to handle this scriputre.

You are wise beyond your years.

 

[shernren]

Thanks!

Also, You Eat Cows.