Question for Pro-Lifer's

[BibleMadeMeDoIt]

I have been reading a lot of the topics discussing abortion tonight and noticed a lot of strong feelings for pro-life on this board, not only Christians but several others.

So please answer this question as honestly as possible.

For those of you who feel abortion is wrong, no matter what the situation is, what are you personally doing to improve the lives of children already here? And this does not include your children or your family/friends children.

I would really appreciate as much feed back as possible.

And for some knowledge on the situation for some American children, I'll include some stats I found tonight.

In 2003,

18% of America's children lived in poverty, that's a little over 13,000,000 children.

18% of America's children lived in food-insecure homes, and 34% of those children were living with a single mother. 1 out of 4 of these homes reported restricting food to themselves and children because the family could not afford enough food.

In 2003 11% of the children in America had no health insurance coverage, that is 8,030,000 children. Private health care coverage has been declining while government insurance coverage has been increasing for children.

http://www.childstats.gov/

In 2003, an estimated 1,500 children died as a result of abuse or neglect.

73% of the children killed in 2003 as a result of abuse or neglect were under the age of 4.

35.6% of the children killed, died as a result of neglect and 28% as a result of physical abuse only.

An estimated 906,000 children where determined to be victims of abuse or neglect in 2003. These are only the reported cases.

In 2003, there was over 500,000 children in public foster care. Over 100,000 of these children were waiting to be adopted. Typically only 50,000 will be adopted every year.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/

 

[ebia]

I have been reading a lot of the topics discussing abortion tonight and noticed a lot of strong feelings for pro-life on this board, not only Christians but several others.

So please answer this question as honestly as possible.

For those of you who feel abortion is wrong, no matter what the situation is,

what are you personally doing to improve the lives of children already here? And this does not include your children or your family/friends children.

Sponsoring children through World Vision
A major Children's charity is a major benfactor in my will
Currently investigating fostering (not yet implemented for practical reasons) and possibly adoption.
Substantial donations to various children's charities, and other charities helping people in need.
and I work as a maths teacher specialising in teaching struggling kids (many of whom are disadvantaged in various ways).

 

[dr.p]

I do what I can. Anyone, who truly cares about children will be doing what they can to help, even if they can only help a little.

 

[StromRider]

While the individual replies above are nice, I think what biblemademedoit is getting at is something more general that I have often thought about myself. (My apologies to bible.. if I read something into the post that wasn't meant)

Some of the loudest and most vehement anti-abortionists are also the same right wing zealots who decry any form of sane sex education (abstinence works for everyone ), and want to make birth control difficult, if not impossible to obtain.

Once a baby is born these people will then be the first to slam the often single and poverty stricken mother for having the baby. And they will also be lobbying the government for tax breaks and increased military spending and not to waste money on social services for losers.

Am I stereotyping and generalizing? Yes, but I can only go by what I see and hear on a regular basis from those who are loudest. And don't forget one basic fact. If abortion is made illegal tomorrow, those who can afford it will continue to pay for private abortions while those who can't will be subjected to death and maiming by back alley butchers. Don't people know any history?

 

[levi501]

c'mon, the more children are born the more wars we can get into.. duh!

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Some of the loudest and most vehement anti-abortionists are also the same right wing zealots who decry any form of sane sex education (abstinence works for everyone ), and want to make birth control difficult, if not impossible to obtain.

Once a baby is born these people will then be the first to slam the often single and poverty stricken mother for having the baby. And they will also be lobbying the government for tax breaks and increased military spending and not to waste money on social services for losers.

Not all of us. I am pro-life and I am basically the political equivalent of a democrat.

 

[dr.p]

While the individual replies above are nice, I think what biblemademedoit is getting at is something more general that I have often thought about myself. ......snip....

I got what he was saying, and I think it's a great thing to point out to people. I've had to point that out to my father who, God bless Him, tends to think Christian standards need applied to secular society. While I agree that secular society needs the true Christian morals (the roots,) secular society doesn't want them, and Christianity is not supposed to be about pushing things on those who don't want them.

But I, personally, had no need to respond to that aspect of his post because I was addressing his question to pro-lifers.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

That's not very good logic, IMO, there are thousands or more starving adults in the world so let legalize euthenising the ones that nobody wants to help. HELP.

 

[AngCath]

Some of the loudest and most vehement anti-abortionists are also the same right wing zealots who decry any form of sane sex education (abstinence works for everyone ), and want to make birth control difficult, if not impossible to obtain.

Once a baby is born these people will then be the first to slam the often single and poverty stricken mother for having the baby. And they will also be lobbying the government for tax breaks and increased military spending and not to waste money on social services for losers.

yes, that was quite a generalization. I'm pro-life and politically a Green (i clearly disagree with their view on abortion).
And, to answer the original question. I'm a Youth Minister and Day Care Chaplain.

 

[Miss Spaulding]

Okay, first of all, let we just clarify something here; there is no such thing as poverty in America. Poverty is impossible here. If you want to know what "true" poverty is, go to Haiti or Africa, or one of those places. That's poverty.

The only reason children would go hungry here is all because of the parents. We are dealing with parents who simply don't want to work at all these days. They care nothing of the children they've brought into the world, but only of the free money they get from the government (yes, this is where your taxes are going) so they can spend it on alcohol, drugs, and personal pleasures.

This is how the government thinks: 'abortion is simply for the sake of the children. (pfft, what a joke) If we allow abortion, then this means there will be less "unwanted" children born into the world, who would only live a terrible, unloving life.' Now, if we allow abort-err, I mean, the murder of unborn, innocent children, we are simply dismissing the value of human life here. And if we can treat human li-err, I mean, a fetus (*rolls eyes*) that way still inside the whome, why can't we treat them the same born? This is the people's attitude torwards it. If they have the legal right to murder their unborn child (which, of course, wouldn't have happened if they had contoled their sex-life properly), then why should they value born life? Why? What's the point?

This is all why we are discovering more and more homes containing unloved, abused, hungry (ect.) children. Because people simply don't care anymore. Abortion has become an epidemic.

Also, there are hundreds of couples out there who are just dying to have a baby of their own, but they can't, so what do they do? They adopted. But they want an infant...but guess what? They can't find any infants, and you know why?...Because they're all being aborted! The reason kids are not barely ever being adopted in America is because the kids are getting older. Nobody really wants to adopt a child of 10 or older, not because they don't love them or care that they don't get a home. But because most kids of that age who are adopted don't adjust to these "people" they're living with. When you're an infant or young toddler, you grow up with them, they're who you know your whole life. They are your parents. Not just a "nobody" who a 10+ year old kid would probably think. That's why there isn't very much adopting these days. People get abortions every day because they're thinking about how this child will effect their life. It's all about "me, me, me." Never once do they think about what their doing. Never once do they think about how this could effect the unborn child's life, or the local couple who are starving for an infant of their own. What a sick setup.

Besides, man does not have the power or right to choose whether an unborn child will have a happy life or not and kill them. It's just can't be done, but yet...it's done every single day. It's me sick to think about it. I mean, right now, this very moment as I write this there could be an innocent unborn child, sucking its little thumb, just about to be chopped up into little pieces. Could we get any heartless?


*sigh* Well, that's my rant for the day.

 

[StromRider]

That's not very good logic, IMO, there are thousands or more starving adults in the world so let legalize euthenising the ones that nobody wants to help. HELP.

What's not very good logic? The op or my post?

There are probably hundreds of thousands of starving adults in the world but I've never heard of euthanasia as being proposed as a solution to that problem. Spending money on helping people instead of illegitimate and immoral wars might be a start.

I'm all for the legalizing of euthanasia in the right cases (see Schiavo circus), but it seems to be the religionists who lead the fight against that as well.

 

[""]

Some of the loudest and most vehement anti-abortionists are also the same right wing zealots who decry any form of sane sex education (abstinence works for everyone ), and want to make birth control difficult, if not impossible to obtain.

Often pro-lifers are stereotyped in this manner. You will find that most pro-lifers support safer sex education, as well as birth control options. We just don't support abortion.

Too often people comment on abstinence as if it is an appalling suggestion, and cannot possibly be a part of any "normal" adolescent/teen/young adult lifestyle. This is a lie. Each an every individual has the right to choose whether or not they want to have sex, without having to deal with you people telling that it's abnormal to wait. They have enough stress put on them by their peers, without having to read it in posts, hear it on tv, see it in magazines that cater to teens, etc.

Abstinence is a choice. It should be taught as one, just as sex with protection should be taught as one. Our generation lacks modesty. When you dress in a manner that suggests you want to show off your body, it encourages young men and young women to view you as sexy. Twelve year old girls shouldn't be dressing sexy, they shouldn't be contemplating sex, and they shouldn't be discussing abortion in clinics. Unfortunately, they are.

It is my belief that safer sex education begins at home. Children should be dressing age appropriate. Parents should be spending more time with their children, discussing what a precious gift sex is, and that it's nothing to be ashamed of, because God created it. At the same time, they should be taught that sex without love is an empty act, and love isn't the same as a strong feeling of attraction. It's up to parents to teach their children how to value themselves, but when parents don't do their job, then mentors, and friends should step in and do their part.

what are you personally doing to improve the lives of children already here? And this does not include your children or your family/friends children.

I have taught safer sex classes which include all forms of birth control, as well as masturbation and abstinence as options. I have volunteered as a mentor for adolescent girls. Most come from divorced homes where there is either no mother available, or the mother works so hard that she is unable to spend all the time with her children that she would like. I have volunteered at food banks and clothing banks for non-profit agencies. I have volunteered at libraries (reading to children), because reading is an important part of growth, and development. I have worked at non-profit soup kitchens and homeless shelters for families and/or women and children, many times spending holidays there, because sometimes that's all I have to give. I give clothing, books, toys, and time to women and children's shelters.

 

[levi501]

This is how the government thinks: 'abortion is simply for the sake of the children. (pfft, what a joke) If we allow abortion, then this means there will be less "unwanted" children born into the world, who would only live a terrible, unloving life.'

wrong. the government views this as the right of a person to do as they wish with their body. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness... how much liberty and happiness is their forcing a woman to carry a child to term? You equate pro-choice to pro-murder... I equate pro-life to pro-slavery. Does someone in forced servitude have the right to kill the person enslaving them? Does anyone have the right to use your blood and resources without your permission? I hope your an organ donor that shares blood/plasma and anything else possible quite regularly or according to your logic you could very well be guilty of murder also.

If they have the legal right to murder their unborn child (which, of course, wouldn't have happened if they had contoled their sex-life properly), then why should they value born life? Why? What's the point?

And here we find out your true intentions... you'd like to punish women for enjoying sex.

This is all why we are discovering more and more homes containing unloved, abused, hungry (ect.) children. Because people simply don't care anymore. Abortion has become an epidemic.

appeal to emotion. Any evidence to show that abortion and disfunctional homes directly correlate?

Also, there are hundreds of couples out there who are just dying to have a baby of their own, but they can't, so what do they do? They adopted. But they want an infant...but guess what? They can't find any infants, and you know why?...<<SNIP>>

Because they want white babies.

Besides, man does not have the power or right to choose whether an unborn child will have a happy life or not and kill them. It's just can't be done, but yet...it's done every single day.

This is funny. You refuted your own claim. I'm glad to see you're clear as to what power man has.

It's me sick to think about it. I mean, right now, this very moment as I write this there could be an innocent unborn child, sucking its little thumb, just about to be chopped up into little pieces. Could we get any heartless?

*sigh* Well, that's my rant for the day.

Perhaps you should go to these abortion clinics and offer to take the child into your home. Perhaps if the potential mother was confronted with the face of the person who wants her child and will help bring it to term she might be abliged to change her mind. I find it so hypocritical that pro-lifers call abortion murder and claim that the unborn is just as valuable as someone already born. If there was a clinic that was legally killing 2year old children I would be down there right now trying to adopt as many I could afford. I'm sure many people feel the same, yet when a pro-lifer tries to appeal to emotion by using the term murder you'll never find them at the clinic petitioning to take the potential child into their home. If they truly believed the unborn was of equal value they would though.

 

[Harlan Norris]

It's true, we expound on the horror of abortion. It's also true that as a general rule we do little or nothing for any but our own. Still, that is not a good arguement for abortion. Instead of arguing against abortion, I'd like to say a few words for self control and personal responsibility. We act like getting pregnant is a unheard of consequence of sex. We say that it is unreasonable to expect anyone to think about that beforehand. Of course I realise that at my age this would be easier than when I was 20. However it's not impossible now and it wasn't then. Bringing souls to Christ will take us far in that direction.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

What's not very good logic? The op or my post?

There are probably hundreds of thousands of starving adults in the world but I've never heard of euthanasia as being proposed as a solution to that problem. Spending money on helping people instead of illegitimate and immoral wars might be a start.

I'm all for the legalizing of euthanasia in the right cases (see Schiavo circus), but it seems to be the religionists who lead the fight against that as well.

The OP two wrongs don't make a right. If there was euthenisatia for adults that weren't wanted or able to be cared for (example, homeless, jobless, poor, old, handycapped) It would be easily paralleled to abortion. It's for the same supposed 'good' reasons.

 

[BibleMadeMeDoIt]

Sponsoring children through World Vision
A major Children's charity is a major benfactor in my will
Currently investigating fostering (not yet implemented for practical reasons) and possibly adoption.
Substantial donations to various children's charities, and other charities helping people in need.
and I work as a maths teacher specialising in teaching struggling kids (many of whom are disadvantaged in various ways).

Thanks for answering the question. And thanks for doing all you do for your community and for those in need. People like you make life seem more livable and not something that should be avoided to prevent struggle or distress to a child in the future. You never know you may be providing hope to a woman who thinks she has no other options. Your teaching children math could one day lead them to a life of success.

 

[BibleMadeMeDoIt]

I do what I can. Anyone, who truly cares about children will be doing what they can to help, even if they can only help a little.

A little goes a long ways in some situations. Thanks for doing what you do, even though you didnt give details but I hope its something good .

 

[marblehead]

The only reason children would go hungry here is all because of the parents. We are dealing with parents who simply don't want to work at all these days. They care nothing of the children they've brought into the world, but only of the free money they get from the government (yes, this is where your taxes are going) so they can spend it on alcohol, drugs, and personal pleasures.

It's true that some people abuse the system, but you can't possibly believe that everyone does. Some people need a lot of help and don't get it because of this thinking that everyone is abusing the system. Not everyone who is trying to get help from the government or tax funded programs is some greedy drug addict and not everyone who needs help need it because they keep having babies. People thinking that everyone is abusing the system are just making it harder for the people who really need help.
I see a lot of people in the government wasting tax money and they seem to be the same people who think that there should be no tax money given to actually help the people. More money is spent on prisons than universities, health insurance for children and other people has been cut, and mental health funding keeps on decreasing all while the government spends billions on wars, new bills and laws, and favors to businesses.

 

[BibleMadeMeDoIt]

Okay, first of all, let we just clarify something here; there is no such thing as poverty in America. Poverty is impossible here. If you want to know what "true" poverty is, go to Haiti or Africa, or one of those places. That's poverty.

The only reason children would go hungry here is all because of the parents. We are dealing with parents who simply don't want to work at all these days. They care nothing of the children they've brought into the world, but only of the free money they get from the government (yes, this is where your taxes are going) so they can spend it on alcohol, drugs, and personal pleasures.

This is how the government thinks: 'abortion is simply for the sake of the children. (pfft, what a joke) If we allow abortion, then this means there will be less "unwanted" children born into the world, who would only live a terrible, unloving life.' Now, if we allow abort-err, I mean, the murder of unborn, innocent children, we are simply dismissing the value of human life here. And if we can treat human li-err, I mean, a fetus (*rolls eyes*) that way still inside the whome, why can't we treat them the same born? This is the people's attitude torwards it. If they have the legal right to murder their unborn child (which, of course, wouldn't have happened if they had contoled their sex-life properly), then why should they value born life? Why? What's the point?

This is all why we are discovering more and more homes containing unloved, abused, hungry (ect.) children. Because people simply don't care anymore. Abortion has become an epidemic.

Also, there are hundreds of couples out there who are just dying to have a baby of their own, but they can't, so what do they do? They adopted. But they want an infant...but guess what? They can't find any infants, and you know why?...Because they're all being aborted! The reason kids are not barely ever being adopted in America is because the kids are getting older. Nobody really wants to adopt a child of 10 or older, not because they don't love them or care that they don't get a home. But because most kids of that age who are adopted don't adjust to these "people" they're living with. When you're an infant or young toddler, you grow up with them, they're who you know your whole life. They are your parents. Not just a "nobody" who a 10+ year old kid would probably think. That's why there isn't very much adopting these days. People get abortions every day because they're thinking about how this child will effect their life. It's all about "me, me, me." Never once do they think about what their doing. Never once do they think about how this could effect the unborn child's life, or the local couple who are starving for an infant of their own. What a sick setup.

Besides, man does not have the power or right to choose whether an unborn child will have a happy life or not and kill them. It's just can't be done, but yet...it's done every single day. It's me sick to think about it. I mean, right now, this very moment as I write this there could be an innocent unborn child, sucking its little thumb, just about to be chopped up into little pieces. Could we get any heartless?


*sigh* Well, that's my rant for the day.

Could you at least answer the question instead of ranting about how heartless abortion is. Did I at any point make a statement about how I feel about abortion, NO! I asked a simple question that others had no problem answering.

And also you obviously live closed off from the America I live in. Unlike you I know what the reality is in this country. YES, poverty does exist, you just ride past and above it on express ways. I live in the middle of it do to the fact I cant afford rent in the suburbs and pay off my student loans. I see the mothers and fathers struggling everyday to make ends meet, some working several jobs. I have worked with the children who steal food because they know when they get home there might not be dinner. I have spent time with the little kids locked out after school because their mother has to work two jobs to keep a roof over their head but cant afford child care after-school. I remember wonder why their mothers didnt just give them a key and then one finally explained because she feared the kid setting the house on fire trying to cook for themselves.

And also maybe you didnt know this, but not everyone that is poor receives government assistance or do not work. And that government "free" money is sure a lot of money, according to a government website they pay on average $395 a month to a mother. In my part of the country we are suffering from an increase of poverty do to low wages and shortage of jobs in fields other than service. Right now we have an abundance of $6-9/ hour, 35 hours a week jobs with no benefits. Imagine trying to raise a child or two on that after getting laid off from a job that paid your house and car note, insurance, etc. I went for an interview a week ago for a job that paid $7.50/h, full time with great benefits and I was up against 5 people with degrees in computer science, and it was only a simple ebay lister job. Of course I didnt get the job but it really made me look around and see how sad its gotten here.

As for your comment about parents being the cause of their children's hunger do to lack of working, did you know many of our US military bases have food pantries because families on base run out of food? And these are WORKING familes. I read somewhere that the majority of the military families with children receive foodstamps and WIC.

And about adoption, why dont those starving for a baby couples stand in front of the abortion clinics with signs saying "we will love your child if you give us a chance" instead of "abortion is murder and your going to hell"? The majority of the women who have abortions do not do it because they dont want the responsibility, they dont want to bring a child into the world to suffer because at the time they dont have enough to pay for housing, clothing, food, healthcare and childcare for a child. Maybe if the want to be parents made themselves available to these women, they would change their mind. I have never heard of this situation happening before though.

As for you comment about the 10 year old kids treating adopted parents like "no body", get real. Go spend some time with children in foster care looking to be adopted. They want parents more than anything else in the world. My parents are in the process of completing an adoption of a 14 yr old and are looking into adopting 2 other teens that are staying with them. All 3 were labled trouble kids and have more respect and love for my parents and I than my very own teenage sisters. The "I love You's" are said more in my parents house than ever before and it was the kids who started it. Kids love those who love them unconditionally.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

P.S. I was a child that went hungry, and suffered abuse. If you would like to know how hungrey I was try to picture a person being 5'41/2" in height, at 60 pounds. I'm 5'5" now and weigh almost twice that much, and I'm still considered underweight. Don't use the exuse that thier are starving children out there and thats why they should be aborted, I was one of them and I am grateful for life.