Question for Nazarenes

[Romans Road]

I posted this in a another section before I knew there was a Nazarene section. So, I posted it again here.

I use to attend a Church of the Nazarene, but I know attend a Christian Missionary Alliance (CMA) Church. The Church of the Nazarene that I use to attend is still teaching solid Biblical doctrine.

However, the Nazarene Church my in-laws are going to is going emergent and apostate. I have heard from a few other people in other areas who are saying the same thing about their church. However, I have talked to other people whose Nazarene Church is rejecting the emergent/apostate stuff.

If you attend a Nazarene Church, are you seeing the Nazarene Church going apostate or are they still holding on? I am just wondering how wide spread it is.

Thanks.

 

[Zoness]

I guess it depends on what you mean by apostate but I am not Nazarene so I will not speak for them.

 

[Romans Road]

This is a few things that I can think of from the top of my head.

Promoting and using The Shack from the pulpit.

Gave a sermon on Easter Sunday based on Fireproof instead of teaching about the resurrection.

More and more sermons are on things like reducing stress and living a better life instead of strong Biblical teaching.

The pastor gave credibility to evolution in a Sunday school class.

Does not preach about sin or Hell. The only thing he ever said over the last few years about sin is that judging is a sin.

Cut way back on communion and stated the reason that is was too much trouble.

Has not had a baptism in a long time. Also stated that they are too much trouble.

The main translation they use is The Message.

Continued to use Rob Bell videos after being shown statements by Bell that denied sola scriptura and other concerns. The church's stance was that they were almost done so they would finish the series.

Boys who were sitting on the laps of other boys in the junior high group were not corrected.

To be fair, they do have a good ministry that reaches out to the inner city.

 

[Zoness]

Ah I see what you mean, well I don't exactly agree on the evolution part but I get the general picture, I have never attended a Nazarene service, mostly just those of the United Methodists and typically Nazarenes are referred to as more conservative than UMC, so I figure what you are seeing is a relatively rare occurrence.

 

[rsr1953]

I can only speak for our church and the Nazarene churches that I know and am familiar with (literally 100+).

I believe I have heard a message on the power of the resurrection every Easter.

I would agree that there are more messages on things people might consider 'less spiritual' such as living a better life. But if it is in the context on the ability of the gospel to change a life and that life being more effective and fruitful for the Lord, then I don't have a problem with it.

I know there are those who accept evolution I know of no Nazarene pastor personally that does. Some others would accept a evolution/creation process. There may be a couple of those in my circles. But I have never heard anything accept a biblical account of creation, nearly all mentioning a literal 7 day account.

Granted sin is not mentioned as much as it was a couple decades ago. I believe that the Nazarene church has taken a biblical stand where the Scriptures are clear and have taken a loving position on the issues that are considered hot topics today. Homosexuality/immorality and abortion being a couple. While these are abominations to God, we still need to love the sinner. How can we ever win them to Christ otherwise? Loving them does not equate to acceptance of lifestyles or sin.

I like the Message and enjoy it from time to time in a devotional setting, but normally hear the NIV or New King James being used.

Perfect church? No way! Great church? Definitely!!!

The church I attend is the most loving congregation I know. They would be considered conservative to many. But they so love the Lord and being used to bless this old world. I am proud to be one of them!

Just some of my thoughts, for whatever that's worth.

This is a few things that I can think of from the top of my head.

Promoting and using The Shack from the pulpit.

Gave a sermon on Easter Sunday based on Fireproof instead of teaching about the resurrection.

More and more sermons are on things like reducing stress and living a better life instead of strong Biblical teaching.

The pastor gave credibility to evolution in a Sunday school class.

Does not preach about sin or Hell. The only thing he ever said over the last few years about sin is that judging is a sin.

Cut way back on communion and stated the reason that is was too much trouble.

Has not had a baptism in a long time. Also stated that they are too much trouble.

The main translation they use is The Message.

Continued to use Rob Bell videos after being shown statements by Bell that denied sola scriptura and other concerns. The church's stance was that they were almost done so they would finish the series.

Boys who were sitting on the laps of other boys in the junior high group were not corrected.

To be fair, they do have a good ministry that reaches out to the inner city.

 

[Romans Road]

Thanks for the reply. I know its not all Nazarene Churches. The one I use to attend is still a strong Bible teaching Church. However, I have heard from a few people that attend other Nazarene Churches that are seeing similiar things to what is going on in my in-laws church. I'm hoping that its not a trend. I really like the Nazarene Church, but we must always be on guard against people who would like to lead a church astray. Someone recently told me about these two web sites: Reformed Nazarene and Concerned Nazarenes. I can't post links yet.

As far as The Message goes, please be careful. There seems be a decent amount of info out there that links Peterson and The Message to mysticism. I have not done all of the research yet, but there is enough stuff to make me want to look into it. Google The Message mysticism.

Thanks and God Bless.

 

[Maid Marie]

I was going to give a long, well informed response...but then decided that since I am tired and hungry, maybe I should just keep it simple

Without having met this pastor or been to that church, I would say that probably the pastor had good intentions - outreach and "by all means save some" [quote from Paul]. Methods that reach out to those who've never been churched are going to seem like apostate to those who've lived all their lives in the church. Some of these methods are good...just different [ex. preaching from the Message instead of NIV]. While some are questionable [less communion? but not surprising for a denomination that can be more Anabaptist at times than Anglican]. But some are not good signs [ex I would go insane if the sermon was about a book other than the Bible].

I've been in a church in which the older folks felt that the pastor was an apostate...they got mad, yelled, etc and then left. There was little discussion and no prayer for the pastor. I have also been in a church in which the prejudice went the opposite. Neither is good, healthy or Christlike.

What I have done in both situations is pray, ask God for discernment for myself and the congregation to know what is of God or not. And then I prayed that ultimately, everyone would put love of God & fellow congregant as the priority in their church/spiritual life and be so desperate for God that they would let Him be in control of the church and its services/ministries - regardless if things are done differently than what I think they should be done.

I don't see the CotN going apostate...I see it changing and improving. But, that is a general statement. Within regions at least in the US, there are going to be some churches that are healthier than others.

[Got long winded after all....hopefully I said the right thing and made sense, if not just ignore me.]

 

[mont974x4]

This really is not a problem limited to any one denomination. That said, there is a growing trend in the CotN and I have heard some pastors express worry about it going so far as bringing about a split. It is one reason I am no longer a Naz and I was (more less gently) removed as a pastor.

There needs to be a lot of prayer, careful study of Scripture, and wisdom to know how to proceed. We need to stand against error and false teaching but we need to know what we are talking about. Rob Bell teaches some dangerous things, as do the other emergent leaders, and "the message" is a horrible perversion of Scripture. I have read enough reviews and exerpts from "the shack" to be very concerned.

 

[JCFantasy23]

This is a few things that I can think of from the top of my head.

Promoting and using The Shack from the pulpit.

Gave a sermon on Easter Sunday based on Fireproof instead of teaching about the resurrection.

More and more sermons are on things like reducing stress and living a better life instead of strong Biblical teaching.

The pastor gave credibility to evolution in a Sunday school class.

Does not preach about sin or Hell. The only thing he ever said over the last few years about sin is that judging is a sin.

Cut way back on communion and stated the reason that is was too much trouble.

Has not had a baptism in a long time. Also stated that they are too much trouble.

The main translation they use is The Message.

Continued to use Rob Bell videos after being shown statements by Bell that denied sola scriptura and other concerns. The church's stance was that they were almost done so they would finish the series.

Boys who were sitting on the laps of other boys in the junior high group were not corrected.

To be fair, they do have a good ministry that reaches out to the inner city.

Uh, wow. All that?? I would soooo change churches, that's quite a bit of an eyebrow raise.