Question for Jews

[tansy]

Hi..wasnt sure the best place to post this question, but thought I'd try here.
Many Christians are thinking Jesus might return in the fairly nearish future. I was just wondering if Jews who don't accept Jesus as Messiah are expecting the Messiah to come in the near future, or if they think it could be hundreds if not thousands of years. Or what?
Sorry i'm I'm not putting this question very well, but I'm not sure if only Jewish Christians post here, or Jewish non-Christians do too.

 

[genifer]

Well, Im not jewish but this came up in my recent research on a similar subject and the answer is varied. Its my understanding that Jews dont have a concensus on all the various issues in their faith. I found that interesting, very interesting. So, apparently some jews believe that the Messiah will be on the scene soon, some simply hope so, others dont care(!) or arent really bothered. Im sure there will be even more to it, but the answer, it appears, is diverse.

 

[Heber]

Messianic Jews do not have a creed or a statement of belief / faith*, nor even an agreed systematic theology, yet. Judaism and Christianity have these things but then they have been going a little longer than the 30 or so years that MJism has really come into its own (although its roots go back to Acts 15, at least). It is no surprise, therefore, that you might get very mixed answers, which was the point I was making to Gen., in another post on this forum.

We can't even agree on a suitable name since the term 'Messianic Jews' is seen by many to exclude Gentiles, hence the debates about Gentiles becoming Jews (of one flavour or another) or they are excluded simply by virtue of the title used!


*Some groupings have agreed Statements of Faith / Belief, but there is no overall, agreed wording that separates out Messianic Believers from Christians or Jews.

 

[tansy]

Thanks for both your answers..and yes, I do realise that there are various shades of belief, interpretation and so on.
I just wondered whether there was a general air of expectation amongst non-Christian Jews that the Messiah might come soon....Particularly, say, amongst the Jews living in Israel.
Only I couldnt find a non-Christian Jew section here.....perhaps I should find a different forum where I could ask them there.
Possibly there are different levels of expectation amongst ultra-Orthodox Jews, and all the varying shades of Judaism?
I suppose I'm thinking that a Christian Jew, a gentile Christian, and a non-Christian Jew might perceive things a bit differently, as obviously Christians believe the Messiah has already come.
Are Jews watching out for different 'signs' or whatever, than Christians.
BTW, sorry if |I'm using any inaccurate terminology here..I know that some people prefer to be called Messianic Jews, some prefer (I think) Jewish Christians etc, but I had to try and differentiate for the purposes of my question.

 

[Desert Rose]

The variety of opinions among Jews( as in non Chirstian, non Messianic, but adherents of Judaism, if i understood you right) especially in Israel ,is huge.

And so it was thru the years. Remember that unlike Christians , who expect Messiah to appear again with a great noise, Jews believe that Messiah could already be among us, we just dont know him. They believe that he is a man just like anybody else, but extraordinary, and technically speaking, speculations who he is or potentially could be never cease.

Thru history there were teachers who believed that Messiah could be someone who already came and died ( gets tricky, huh?)
like someone who was already born and lived during the period of 2 temple and was taken to Heaven, Some say Bar Kohba was the Messiah, some point to a few others...

Sephardic Kaballist Bahai has a very sophisticated explanation that talks about potentiality of King David being one..
So opinions are legion.

 

[calmone]

I think we are getting very close to the time of the coming of Moshiach.
I do think this view is much more prevelant amongst Orthodox Jews
than others, and is especially a view that is held by Chabad.

May the Moshiach come speedily and in our day!

 

[tansy]

The variety of opinions among Jews( as in non Chirstian, non Messianic, but adherents of Judaism, if i understood you right) especially in Israel ,is huge.

And so it was thru the years. Remember that unlike Christians , who expect Messiah to appear again with a great noise, Jews believe that Messiah could already be among us, we just dont know him. They believe that he is a man just like anybody else, but extraordinary, and technically speaking, speculations who he is or potentially could be never cease.

Thru history there were teachers who believed that Messiah could be someone who already came and died ( gets tricky, huh?)
like someone who was already born and lived during the period of 2 temple and was taken to Heaven, Some say Bar Kohba was the Messiah, some point to a few others...

Sephardic Kaballist Bahai has a very sophisticated explanation that talks about potentiality of King David being one..
So opinions are legion.

Phew..looks like I'll have to do some research...

 

[calmone]

"
We can't even agree on a suitable name since the term 'Messianic Jews' is seen by many to exclude Gentiles, hence the debates about Gentiles becoming Jews (of one flavour or another) or they are excluded simply by virtue of the title used"

Why is it not called the "Messianic Faith" or the term "Messianic Believer" used
So that gentiles do not feel excluded?

 

[Desert Rose]

Very much agree with you both. Are you a chabadnik ,by chance, yourself, calmone? I got some wonderful friends among them.

Also speculations about MEssiah among Jews , etc in america or diaspora cardinally differ from those in Israel. Sadly, due to such close connection of religious matters and governmental/political many use in eretz use it for political goals, which are often very dirty.

But one thing i, being a christian ,always respect is when Jews remember that Messiah will bring peace and protect the Holy Land. Various talks how he is the one who will come to destroy the arabic world have more wordly flavor to them.. He is not a military leader who is will be there just to settle our earhtly fights

 

[Desert Rose]

"
Why is it not called the "Messianic Faith" or the term "Messianic Believer" used
So that gentiles do not feel excluded?

ma pitom? Its such a never ending fights inducer, hot topic, many love to so love to argue over it they dont want it settled

on a serious note, why not? I always see messianic and chrisitan as in
"what kind of church /shul one attends". I am jewish and attend christian homebased church, so i am christian. If i were to start going to messianic congregation i'd call myself messianic.

 

[calmone]

Hello Desert Rose, am I a Chabanik?
In a sense, yes. I have been associated with them for quite a while and my conversion was sponsored by aChabad Rabbi three years ago. I am involved in the community andhave adopted their customs. SoI guess that makes me a "Chadnik".

 

[calmone]

Hello Desert Rose, am I a Chabanik?
In a sense, yes. I have been associated with them for quite a while and my conversion was sponsored by aChabad Rabbi three years ago. I am involved in the community andhave adopted their customs. SoI guess that makes me a "Chadnik".

 

[Steve Petersen]

Hello Desert Rose, am I a Chabanik?
In a sense, yes. I have been associated with them for quite a while and my conversion was sponsored by aChabad Rabbi three years ago. I am involved in the community andhave adopted their customs. SoI guess that makes me a "Chadnik".

What did you convert from? Did you grow up some form of Christian?

 

[calmone]

Hello Steve, nice to meet you. My father was Episcopalian and my mother a member of the Congregational church
In order to be raised in a uniform manner, we were raised in the faith of my mother.

 

[Tishri1]

we did change the name for a while to The Messianic Forum and it wasnt pretty....most of the consensus was to change it back so we did....majority rules

 

[Steve Petersen]

Hello Steve, nice to meet you. My father was Episcopalian and my mother a member of the Congregational church
In order to be raised in a uniform manner, we were raised in the faith of my mother.

Why did you convert to Judaism?

 

[calmone]

Why did you convert to Judaism?

Steve, that is quite a complex question but I am going to give it a short answer.
I tried desperately to belive the tenets of the Christian faith, but I could never
Accept them. I went to Sunday school, church, bible study, all to no avail.
When I accidently (so I thought at the time) picked up a book on Judaism, I
Felt like I was coming home. I knew by the time I finished that book that I
Would some day convert.

 

[tansy]

Steve, that is quite a complex question but I am going to give it a short answer.
I tried desperately to belive the tenets of the Christian faith, but I could never
Accept them. I went to Sunday school, church, bible study, all to no avail.
When I accidently (so I thought at the time) picked up a book on Judaism, I
Felt like I was coming home. I knew by the time I finished that book that I
Would some day convert.

That's interesting. I'd always felt somewhatdrawn to Judaism, without really knowing that much about it, or even why particularly it should appeal to me. But then (to cut a very long story short) I 'discovered' Christ..and of vcourse, for me, it was through the Jews, that Jesus came and also, through them, that the foundation of Christianity was laid.

I always feel incredibly indebted to Jews...they are the Chosen people (although others also are chosen) and have had to go through so much, yet surviving through thick and thin. But I've never had a chance to get to know any. I know it sounds a bit silly, but I feel like I'd like to give them all a big hug...I just somehow feel a kinship...though whether they would feel the same in return, I don't know.

 

[johnd]

Does it have to be only the two extremes (botched Christianity or botched Judaism)?

Botched Christianity because the Gentiles goyed it up.

Botched Judaism because they don't even believe their own bibles (which prove Yeshua is the Messiah.

Have you considered Messianic Judaism (New Testament Judaism)?

 

[johnd]

That draw many feel towards Judaism is because of the fact that Christianity was supposed to be New Testament Judaism. And believers in Jesus Yeshua are spirit Jews (most unaware or afraid to admit it or are so antisemitic towards the physical Jews they can't abide the fact that the Bible teaches this and live in denial).