• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Question for Creationists

RoboMastodon

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2004
515
36
36
✟23,340.00
Faith
Atheist
Brilliand said:
The universe isn't expanding that fast, compared with its size. It should take quite a lot of time for my calculation to become wrong; I'm only claiming it to the nearest order of magnitude, and I rounded up.
I got the numebr two diffferent ways. The first one was relatively simple: I took the formula for the surface of a hypersphere and input ten billion light years as the radius. This assumes the Big Bang model of expansion and a statement by a news article I glanced at briefly. However, putting in 20 billion years didn't make a significant change.
I justified this against my YEC beliefs by claiming that the Earth was far younger than the universe, despite having the same start date, by virtue of relativity. I havent' actually pursued that line of thought.

The second calculation was a bit wierder. I took the speed of light as the speed of motion, and solved using one of Newton's formulas for the orbit distance. Since the mass of the object being orbited (the universe) influences the orbit as well, I came up with a number in the units "cubic kilograms per cubic meter." I used this, combined with the density of the universe, to get the mass and volume of the universe. I would have simply thrown out this new calculation had it contradicted my previous result, but they agreed perfectly, as far as my memory served.
I didn't save my exact numbers, so I would have to do the calaculation again to give them to you.
Since when has it been verified that the universe is hyperspherical? You say putting in 10 billion and 20 billion didn't make a significant change? If you used the formula for surface volume of a 4-hypersphere your answer should have changed by a factor of 2^3=8, that's almost an order in magnitude. And since when do Newton's Law apply when considering relativistic effects? Lastly, you do realize that some physicists have spent their life working on far more complicated calculations (using general relativity and cosmic background radiation) to get to the consensus that we have now (13.7 billion year old universe).
 
Upvote 0

Brilliand

Benevolent dictator for hire
Oct 3, 2005
6,163
88
37
Texas
Visit site
✟29,429.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I don't have a good reason to assume the universe is hyperspherical, it's just a model I really like.
My results hovered just above 10^79, so I rounded up when it wasn't really warranted. A factor of 8 just makes 10^80 a better answer.
And I don't care if somebody else is puzzled by this, however intelligent and well-educated. I'll tackle it anyway, I just won't be particularly disappointed if I'm wrong.
I don't know how to go about looking for relativistic equations for gravity, nor whether they would fit orbiting the universe (I figured Newton's equations would fit because they don't account for something that doesn't apply-the curvature of space-time).
 
Upvote 0