Question for creationist and "evolutionists"

[matthewgar]

Something I'm curious about, where do you two see the world going in the future? For the creationists, do you think the world will some day come to your view and accept creationism? If so how? And for TE's like myself and AE's, do you think people will eventually reject creationism or will it be around for ever?

For me I'm not sure, I think some day creationism may go away, but it probably take many generations, and some evidence they can't ignore, then again they tend to already.

Just curious, we see alot of arguing and debating here on evolution and creationism but is it ever going to go anywhere or change people?

The evidence/arguments right now for creationism isn't enough to convince majority of atheists, or TE's or even other people that accept evolution, and unless something big changes isn't going to change anyones minds enmass. Same with TE's, we keep finding more evidence learning more but it keeps being rejected, I think things will go the way of AE and TE but probably gradual, like with everything else tied to religion each generation loses some of the old baggage from the last generation.

 

[juvenissun]

Creationism is a consequence, not a cause of faith. As long as there is faith, there will be creationism. Science or no science is not an issue.

 

[AV1611VET]

For the creationists, do you think the world will some day come to your view and accept creationism?

Good question!

This is just my view on what is going to happen.

Unfortunately, I don't think the world is going to 'some day come to our view and accept creationism'.

Not in this dispensation, anyway.

The world held the view of creationism, until the tares of evolution outgrew it.

Now creationism is in the minority and evolution has gained the upper hand.

I believe that what is going to happen, is that the Rapture is going to be very soon.

Following the Rapture, the Antichrist is going to come on the scene and persuade the scientific community of evolution so thoroughly and convincingly, that there will be no room for disagreement.

In fact, he is going to perform a public display of abiogenesis.

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Once having incurred the admiration of scientists, then these scientists will go out and persuade the general population of how easy it is to understand evolution.

"So easy, a child can understand it" will probably be their motto.

In any event, Jesus, The Creationist, will return and put an end to Satan's lies for good.

 

[ivebeenshown]

I believe the fig tree has been in bloom for at least forty years and soon enough, creationism and evolutionism won't make any difference because we will be too busy praising God in His presence.

 

[AV1611VET]

I believe the fig tree has been in bloom for at least forty years and soon enough, creationism and evolutionism won't make any difference because we will be too busy praising God in His presence.

Well, the fig tree bloomed in 1948, so we must be very close!

 

[Nabobalis]

Good question!

This is just my view on what is going to happen.

Following the Rapture, the Antichrist is going to come on the scene and persuade the scientific community of evolution so thoroughly and convincingly, that there will be no room for disagreement.

In fact, he is going to perform a public display of abiogenesis.

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Once having incurred the admiration of scientists, then these scientists will go out and persuade the general population of how easy it is to understand evolution.

"So easy, a child can understand it" will probably be their motto.

In any event, Jesus, The Creationist, will return and put an end to Satan's lies for good.

You don't seem to know that evolution is already accepted without the scientific community, so your timetable is already incorrect.

Then performing a public display of abiogenesis will not convince any scientists till other groups can independently do it as well.

 

[AV1611VET]

You don't seem to know that evolution is already accepted without the scientific community, so your timetable is already incorrect.

I said they will persuade the general population how easy it is to understand evolution.

They will make evolution so easy to understand, no one would even think of disagreeing with it.

Then performing a public display of abiogenesis will not convince any scientists till other groups can independently do it as well.

"Step right up and get your number on your right hand or forehead, and you too can unlock and understand the power of abiogenesis! (For a nominal fee, of course.)"

 

[kkemerait]

I'd like to think, rather naively I'm afraid, that at some point people will simply jettison the teachings of goat herders, shepards and fisherman from 2000+ years ago and realize that we actually know quite a bit more ourselves. Our morals can then be rebuilt based on what we have learned in the areas of psychology, sociology and philosophy and neurobiology. We will have abandoned all manner of supernatural silliness, except maybe the good ones which we can continue to share around a campfire.

Sorry, no rapture coming, no tribulation...let's instead work on making this a better world for us to live in and treating our fellow man with some dignity and respect.

To your point on creationism...it isn't science it is simply religious ideology. I suspect it won't be too much longer until it quietly slips into the background...believed only by biblical literalists who are ignorant, either willingly or innocently, of current scientific understanding. It will slip quietly away like those who still believe the earth is flat.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'd like to think, rather naively I'm afraid, that at some point people will simply jettison the teachings of goat herders, shepards and fisherman from 2000+ years ago and realize that we actually know quite a bit more ourselves.

And what did 'goat herders, shepherds and fishermen from 2000+ years ago' teach?

Our morals can then be rebuilt based on what we have learned in the areas of psychology, sociology and philosophy and neurobiology.

They already have, and as a result, 1.5 million Americans per year will never see them.

We will have abandoned all manner of supernatural silliness, except maybe the good ones which we can continue to share around a campfire.

Sorry, no rapture coming, no tribulation...let's instead work on making this a better world for us to live in and treating our fellow man with some dignity and respect.

All fellow men?

To your point on creationism...it isn't science it is simply religious ideology.

Either that, or it's history.

I suspect it won't be too much longer until it quietly slips into the background...believed only by biblical literalists who are ignorant, either willingly or innocently, of current scientific understanding.

Yup -- we call that the Tribulation Period.

It will slip quietly away like those who still believe the earth is flat.

But it will come back with a vengeance --

 

[Nabobalis]

I said they will persuade the general population how easy it is to understand evolution.

They will make evolution so easy to understand, no one would even think of disagreeing with it.

"Step right up and get your number on your right hand or forehead, and you too can unlock and understand the power of abiogenesis! (For a nominal fee, of course.)"

Again, evolution is easy to understand(it is why it is taught to 15/16 year olds) and in most countries people accept evolution. So your timetable is late. No rapture, no antichrist nothing.

Secondly that is not how information exchange works, no one charges for these discoveries, they publish papers which are open to the news media and anyone who has access to a library.

Hit and a miss.

 

[Cabal]

I said they will persuade the general population how easy it is to understand evolution.

They will make evolution so easy to understand, no one would even think of disagreeing with it.

"Step right up and get your number on your right hand or forehead, and you too can unlock and understand the power of abiogenesis! (For a nominal fee, of course.)"

Seriously, were you bullied by scientists at school? Why do you continue with this prejudiced hate campaign against scientists?

 

[AV1611VET]

Seriously, were you bullied by scientists at school? Why do you continue with this prejudiced hate campaign against scientists?

'Hate campaign'?

When is the last time you saw a scientist say they hold theologians up in high esteem?

Instead, you see this:

To your point on creationism...it isn't science it is simply religious ideology. I suspect it won't be too much longer until it quietly slips into the background...believed only by biblical literalists who are ignorant, either willingly or innocently, of current scientific understanding. It will slip quietly away like those who still believe the earth is flat.

You don't see me saying: 'I suspect it won't be long until scientists fade out', do you?

 

[Cabal]

'Hate campaign'?

When is the last time you saw a scientist say they hold theologians up in high esteem?

So that's the justification True Christians are using these days? "But miss, he's doing it too?"

You don't see me saying: 'I suspect it won't be long until scientists fade out', do you?

No, we're just going to be supporters of the AntiChrist, instead. That's a much better thing to say

 

[AV1611VET]

No, we're just going to be supporters of the AntiChrist, instead. That's a much better thing to say

I somehow can't picture you guys fighting him, either.

The Antichrist is tailor-made for the end-times; and so are scientists.

When that one guy came to America years ago -- (I can't think of his name right now), he convinced us that TM was the way to go.

But who did he target? the churches in America?

No way -- he targeted the scientific community.

Why? because he wanted to get scientific accreditation for Transcendental Meditation -- that's why.

"Learn TM, and America will become more productive. Crime will decrease, illnesses will wane, and working overtime will become a thing of the past!"

As far as I know, he failed in getting our scientists to accept it hook, line and sinker -- (science is too slow, due to peer reviewing, etc.; and he was too old to wait around).

BUT ... once in awhile ... an organization is successful at swaying the scientific community to the point that they will back them scientifically.

Then we Christians are expected to follow suit.

Psychology, chiropractic, homeopathy, iridology, accupuncture, accupressure, spiritual energy therapy, evolution, kirilian photography, ESP, NDE, OBE, astral projection, abortion on demand, akashic records, etc., all seek (or sought) scientific accreditation.

If they can get that, then they can get scientists to put pressure on us plebeians to follow suit.

 

[Cabal]

I somehow can't picture you guys fighting him, either.

The Antichrist is tailor-made for the end-times; and so are scientists.

When that one guy came to America years ago -- (I can't think of his name right now), he convinced us that TM was the way to go.

But who did he target? the churches in America?

No way -- he targeted the scientific community.

Why? because he wanted to get scientific accreditation for Transcendental Meditation -- that's why.

Ever consider that that's because on the whole science has better standards and is more rigorous than churches pontificating, so it's more desirable to have their backing than yours? If you guys were the top dog at having decent standards, perhaps you'd be fighting off the quacks too - although it seems like you still have your share of religious ones.

"Learn TM, and America will become more productive. Crime will decrease, illnesses will wane, and working overtime will become a thing of the past!"

Right, so not that different from what some Christians claim putting some commandments back in a courthouse lobby would do.

As far as I know, he failed in getting our scientists to accept it hook, line and sinker -- (science is too slow, due to peer reviewing, etc.; and he was too old to wait around).

Or perhaps that it was unqualified bunk?

BUT ... once in awhile ... an organization is successful at swaying the scientific community to the point that they will back them scientifically.

Then we Christians are expected to follow suit.

Psychology, chiropractic, homeopathy, iridology, accupuncture, accupressure, spiritual energy therapy, evolution, kirilian photography, ESP, NDE, OBE, astral projection, abortion on demand, akashic records, etc., all seek (or sought) scientific accreditation.

If they can get that, then they can get scientists to put pressure on us plebeians to follow suit.

What do you mean, "follow suit"? No-one expects you to follow suit with the alternative therapies you listed.

And out of all of what you've listed, very few of those things actually have been given scientific backing, the bulk just seek it. So first of all, don't give us a hard time just because our standards are more in demand than yours. The fact is, they are not easily earned - certainly in the UK there is heavy evidence-based resistance to both homeopathy and chiropractic therapy, which have delusions of scientific merit. So really, all you've come up with is an excellent list showing how science ISN'T easily bought by charlatans.

Btw, in my experience, there has been a greater tendency for those that buy into bogus alternative therapies to be religious - and certainly, the variance in extreme opinions is greater among the religious. Maybe you should be looking within your own house for the antiChrist fans.

(Regarding evolution and psychology, there IS scientific evidence backing them, and I think any country worth its salt isn't going to start building an education system on arbitrarily rejecting that evidence. And still, no-one is expecting you to accept them - just don't keep ruin things for those that do, especially when you reap the benefits from the system that devised them.)

So going back to your antiChrist malarkey - you do realise that supernaturally animating an icon would fly in the face of naturalistic abiogenesis, right? It's only abiogenesis by your muddled-up definition.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Something I'm curious about, where do you two see the world going in the future? For the creationists, do you think the world will some day come to your view and accept creationism? If so how? And for TE's like myself and AE's, do you think people will eventually reject creationism or will it be around for ever?

For me I'm not sure, I think some day creationism may go away, but it probably take many generations, and some evidence they can't ignore, then again they tend to already.

Just curious, we see alot of arguing and debating here on evolution and creationism but is it ever going to go anywhere or change people?

The evidence/arguments right now for creationism isn't enough to convince majority of atheists, or TE's or even other people that accept evolution, and unless something big changes isn't going to change anyones minds enmass. Same with TE's, we keep finding more evidence learning more but it keeps being rejected, I think things will go the way of AE and TE but probably gradual, like with everything else tied to religion each generation loses some of the old baggage from the last generation.

Science and reason will continue to find new answers to age-old questions, and creationists will continue to find rationales to reject those answers in favor of comforting fables.

IOW, I don't see anything changing anytime soon.

 

[VirOptimus]

'Hate campaign'?

When is the last time you saw a scientist say they hold theologians up in high esteem?

Instead, you see this:

You don't see me saying: 'I suspect it won't be long until scientists fade out', do you?

Well, most scientists doenst really have anything against theologians as long as they dont mix science with theology, just as most theologians doesnt have anything against science as long as it isnt mixed with religion.

If you understood the difference between the two disciplines then I'm sure that most of your beef with science would dissapear.

 

[Delphiki]

One of the biggest tricks the church ever pulled was to tell it's people to stay stupid to stay holy.

 

[Nathan Poe]

'Hate campaign'?

When is the last time you saw a scientist say they hold theologians up in high esteem?

Is that all you care about, AV -- "high esteem"?

 

[Split Rock]

Now creationism is in the minority and evolution has gained the upper hand.

I believe that what is going to happen, is that the Rapture is going to be very soon.

Yeah, you guys keep telling us The Rapture is coming!.... anytime now!.... very soon!! ....<snore>

Following the Rapture, the Antichrist is going to come on the scene and persuade the scientific community of evolution so thoroughly and convincingly, that there will be no room for disagreement.

There already isn't any disagreement to speak of.

In fact, he is going to perform a public display of abiogenesis.

Which has nothing to do with evolution. However, how could he provide a public display of abiogenesis when it took millions of years??

Once having incurred the admiration of scientists, then these scientists will go out and persuade the general population of how easy it is to understand evolution.

And also give cigarrettes and heroin to little children.

"So easy, a child can understand it" will probably be their motto.

"Oh and here is your heroin needle, little girl."

In any event, Jesus, The Creationist, will return and put an end to Satan's lies for good.

What a wonderful little fantasy you have cooked up for yourself, AVET! 5 stars!