Question for Christians

[Wednesday]

Since it didn't take off last time, probably because i poorly frased question. So here it is again

If Jesus really existed then why is it the story of his life and death sound so similar the myths of Bacchus, Horus, Krishna and Mithra

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html

Plus

Why is Gilgamesh epic flood is so similar to Biblical flood

http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html

Please humor me and answer this. If the bible is to be taken literally do you take into account that quite a few stories in the bible come from another cultures and how do you address that issue. That alone is enough to discredit Christianity for me. If it is so, then bible is not more than another mythological epic.

So please explain it to me.

 

[Northwest]

It seems what you are saying is even more evidence that the Bible is true. If the flood really happened, then every culture world-wide should have ancient lores and histories that mention it.
Same with the life of Christ.
Take any true historical event, add a couple of thousand years, and the stories will have taken on all kinds of twists and turns in the different cultures, yet hopefully enough of the truth will remain to detect where the story started.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Since it didn't take off last time, probably because i poorly frased question. So here it is again

If Jesus really existed then why is it the story of his life and death sound so similar the myths of Bacchus, Horus, Krishna and Mithra

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html

Plus

Why is Gilgamesh epic flood is so similar to Biblical flood

http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html

Please humor me and answer this. If the bible is to be taken literally do you take into account that quite a few stories in the bible come from another cultures and how do you address that issue. That alone is enough to discredit Christianity for me. If it is so, then bible is not more than another mythological epic.

So please explain it to me.

The Native American Indians and White Americans and Black Americans all recall the history of the US a bit differently. Does that mean there is no history of the US since they aren't exactly the same in how they interpreted and passed on events? Or does it maybe mean different points of view passed on over time may have clouded some details while maintaining the substance of the important events?

 

[ReverendDG]

It seems what you are saying is even more evidence that the Bible is true. If the flood really happened, then every culture world-wide should have ancient lores and histories that mention it.

but not all do, not all are even close to a related event, only AME religions are anywhere close to the one in the bible. go read a few flood myths, any that are related to the bible one in places outside the middle east are from missionaries, not because the myth happened

Same with the life of Christ.
Take any true historical event, add a couple of thousand years, and the stories will have taken on all kinds of twists and turns in the different cultures, yet hopefully enough of the truth will remain to detect where the story started.

i've never heard of one story that is remotely universal in all cultures, so sorry your claim is wrong
claiming the flood myth is true because a large number of cultures have myths that involve lots of water is a pretty weak argument.
the logical answer wouldn't be "because it happened" but "because they live near water"

as for jesus, this maybe true, but its his history is more like an urban myth, it sounds logical to people because they were told by people that claim authority in the knowledge
but if you look closely at the subjects the story talks about, you find very little truth and lots of embellishment to entertain and scare or amaze

 

[ReverendDG]

The Native American Indians and White Americans and Black Americans all recall the history of the US a bit differently. Does that mean there is no history of the US since they aren't exactly the same in how they interpreted and passed on events? Or does it maybe mean different points of view passed on over time may have clouded some details while maintaining the substance of the important events?

but no one claims that american history is inerrant or sends you to hell if you fail to believe it.
plus american history has sources to back itself up, and we know the subjects existed, because they wrote things
can you say the same for jesus?

 

[cantata]

Why is Gilgamesh epic flood is so similar to Biblical flood

http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html

Sorry, I know this is for Christians, but I'd just like to put in a source-critical response. Basically the similarity exists because the authors of Genesis 6-9 were familiar with the Gilgamesh epic and probably wrote their texts at least partially as corrective documents of this far more ancient mythology.

The biblical flood story is commonly thought to be an amalgam of at least two source texts. One author, known as 'J' because he calls God "Yahweh" (and the text books were written by Germans), clings quite closely to the Gilgamesh epic and maintains a lot of powerful metaphors and visual storytelling devices. For example, he talks about God smelling the pleasing odour of Noah's sacrifice (Gen 8:21, NRSV). Compare the Gilgamesh epic:

"The gods smelled the savour,
The gods smelled the sweet savour,
The gods crowded like flies about the sacrificer."

You'll note that the Gilgamesh epic is polytheistic. Both Genesis sources (the other is called 'P' for 'priestly', as he has a preoccupation with the cult and a fascination with matters such as genealogies and dates) monotheised the account, but this was probably not the monotheism of today's Christianity; we find in Genesis 1:26 (a P text) that God says "'Let us make humankind in our image'", which some have suggested is a throwback to the idea of a heavenly pantheon of gods, but God (Elohim/Yahweh) is the über-god, the most powerful one.

There are many interesting parallels between ancient near eastern mythology and the Biblical accounts of creation, the flood &c. The chaotic waters before creation described in Genesis 1 are a very common theme in near eastern creation mythology, and P does a beautiful job of adapting those ideas for his strict monotheism. No chaos for Elohim; the waters are calm and he has complete control. How much more beautiful the text is when you appreciate how the authors made use of their sources!

 

[Wednesday]

What I am saying that few of the biblical myths are not exact, but similar to the myths of other cultures of that time. The stories of those cultures are widely considered to be myths, while as biblical myths are considered to be true by quite few people. Why is that?

Considering Creation myths. Why the one depicted in Genesis is considered by theological fundamentalists to be more valid that the creation myths of Greece, Egypt, Mayans and so on. Why the bible?

 

[Autumnleaf]

but no one claims that american history is inerrant or sends you to hell if you fail to believe it.
plus american history has sources to back itself up, and we know the subjects existed, because they wrote things
can you say the same for jesus?

There is a part of American history which one group of people claims spawned the new religion of God and others regard it as a cult based on bogus gold plates. Mormonism is just one example of history taking a fork in the road among different groups of people believeing differing things about one event.

 

[TeddyKGB]

It seems what you are saying is even more evidence that the Bible is true. If the flood really happened, then every culture world-wide should have ancient lores and histories that mention it.

You think? "Every culture world-wide" should have a historical record of a disaster that left only eight Jews, a boat full of animals, and some floating plants? You sure you don't want to rethink that?

 

[theJacknessMonster]

If Jesus really existed then why is it the story of his life and death sound so similar the myths of Bacchus, Horus, Krishna and Mithra

This is something I researched quite a bit. And something I've come to learn is that you can't trust all sources. For example the one you listed. While it's true that the story of Jesus does in fact have similarities of that of other God-men, a lot of those examples listed have no evidence to back them. Some are theories others are just extremely loose translations. The virgin birth of Horus is often argued both ways. Many scholars believe it wasn't a virgin birth at all based on the stories told. I see it differently, but it's really all up to opinion. Based on the actual scriptures of these different religions it's tough to find the similarities. Unless you know the key to doing so. The reason Jesus has shared stories of other religions is that all seem to be based on one thing. The sun.

Why is Gilgamesh epic flood is so similar to Biblical flood

Please humor me and answer this. If the bible is to be taken literally do you take into account that quite a few stories in the bible come from another cultures and how do you address that issue. That alone is enough to discredit Christianity for me. If it is so, then bible is not more than another mythological epic.

So please explain it to me.

This one might have shared from one another. The story of Gilgamesh (the full story that is) was dated as having been written after the old testaments story of the flood. However there is a document that makes breif mention of a universal flood that predates the old testament. The sumerians story of the flood does share several of the same qualities of the story of Noah. But does this mean the flood never happened? No evidence to say such a thing. There have been documents found at all parts of the world that seem to make some mention of a universal flood. All of them sharing at least some of the same qualities of the Noah story.

 

[MikeMcK]

Since it didn't take off last time, probably because i poorly frased question. So here it is again

If Jesus really existed then why is it the story of his life and death sound so similar the myths of Bacchus, Horus, Krishna and Mithra

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html

Plus

Why is Gilgamesh epic flood is so similar to Biblical flood

http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html

Please humor me and answer this. If the bible is to be taken literally do you take into account that quite a few stories in the bible come from another cultures and how do you address that issue. That alone is enough to discredit Christianity for me. If it is so, then bible is not more than another mythological epic.

So please explain it to me.

a) That "A" is similar to "B" does not make "B" false.

b) The stories are not similar. Most have been revised after the fact to make them appear similar.

c) Nearly all of them come after the first descriptions we see of Christ in the book of Genesis, not before. So it would appear from that fact that they copied Christ, not the other way around, if there is any copying going on in the first place.

 

[theJacknessMonster]

b) The stories are not similar. Most have been revised after the fact to make them appear similar.

In all my research I have not come across any evidence to support such a claim.

c) Nearly all of them come after the first descriptions we see of Christ in the book of Genesis, not before. So it would appear from that fact that they copied Christ, not the other way around, if there is any copying going on in the first place.

Not all similarities are from the Old Testament. Many similarities are from those in the New Testament. A document written thousands of years afterwards. Though if you'd like to include the Old Testament, there are religions that were around a long time before hand that spoke of similarities.

 

[MikeMcK]

In all my research I have not come across any evidence to support such a claim.

And what, exactly, is all your "research"?

Not all similarities are from the Old Testament. Many similarities are from those in the New Testament. A document written thousands of years afterwards.

The New Testament was not written "thousands of years afterward". There is only a 400 year gap between the end of the OT and the beginning of the NT.

What similarities do we see in the New Testament that we do not see first in the Old Testament?

Though if you'd like to include the Old Testament, there are religions that were around a long time before hand that spoke of similarities.

OK. Show me what religion spoke about a deity similar to Christ before the Old Testament and what the similarity is.

 

[SaintInChicago]

You think? "Every culture world-wide" should have a historical record of a disaster that left only eight Jews, a boat full of animals, and some floating plants? You sure you don't want to rethink that?

I agree.

If it happened then all the cultures present would have died but those eight people.

 

[MikeMcK]

I agree.

If it happened then all the cultures present would have died but those eight people.

That's true but even if somebody from that culture had survived, that doesn't mean that they'd know the details about Noah's survival and replenishment.

They'd just know the details about the flood's effect in their own area, as it related to their own culture.

 

[theJacknessMonster]

The New Testament was not written "thousands of years afterward". There is only a 400 year gap between the end of the OT and the beginning of the NT.

I never said the NT was written thousands of years after the OT. I was saying that the NT was written thousands of years after writings speaking of similiar events that Jesus shared with other God-men. Events that weren't mentioned in the OT. And if you need me to tell you what events then I wonder if you've read the bible.

OK. Show me what religion spoke about a deity similar to Christ before the Old Testament and what the similarity is.

a simple google search will answer that question. Unless your afraid to seek the knowledge.

 

[MikeMcK]

I never said the NT was written thousands of years after the OT. I was saying that the NT was written thousands of years after writings speaking of similiar events that Jesus shared with other God-men.

So which ones? You still haven't told me which of these similarities predate the first descriptions in the Old Testament.

Events that weren't mentioned in the OT. And if you need me to tell you what events then I wonder if you've read the bible.

I know the Bible well enough.

So why don't you tell me which events?

a simple google search will answer that question. Unless your afraid to seek the knowledge.

I'm not afraid of knowledge. It's just that it isn't my job to back up your claims for you.

You make the claim, you back it up. That's simple enough, isn't it?

 

[TeddyKGB]

That's true but even if somebody from that culture had survived, that doesn't mean that they'd know the details about Noah's survival and replenishment.

They'd just know the details about the flood's effect in their own area, as it related to their own culture.

The poster to whom I was responding claimed that Gilgamesh is evidence for the truth of the Bible. If others survived the world-wide flood then Noah's story is not true as written.

 

[Olcoot]

a) That "A" is similar to "B" does not make "B" false.

b) The stories are not similar. Most have been revised after the fact to make them appear similar.

c) Nearly all of them come after the first descriptions we see of Christ in the book of Genesis, not before. So it would appear from that fact that they copied Christ, not the other way around, if there is any copying going on in the first place.

Oh, my goodness: this just won't do. You're not allowed to actually apply logic and reason in these discussions ... it ruins the fun for others.

On the fallacious argument being made originally, try the websites for The Christian Thinktank or Tekton Apologetics (they tell me I haven't been here long enough to post links).

Both have well documented materials dispelling this myth.

Oh, and by the way, Semper Fi.

 

[MikeMcK]

Oh, my goodness: this just won't do. You're not allowed to actually apply logic and reason in these discussions ... it ruins the fun for others.

On the fallacious argument being made originally, try the websites for The Christian Thinktank or Tekton Apologetics (they tell me I haven't been here long enough to post links).

Both have well documented materials dispelling this myth.

Oh, and by the way, Semper Fi.

Thanks.

Semper Fi.