Question for 'Christians'

[exegeses]

I realize that there are many on this board that are not 'Christians' (especially in this section - duh, right? ). We all have our beliefs, different as they may be, but this question is really for those here who are 'Christians'. Others need not answer. (Not to hurt any feelings or anything - I just doubt I'll get the answers I'm looking for if you're not a 'Christian'.)

So - why does Jesus have to be God?

I don't believe he is, therefore I cannot be labled a 'Christian' here although I do believe:

7 day literal creation
one God - Yahweh
Jesus was God's son and our sacrificial lamb
the only way of salvation is through Jesus, our Messiah

No, I am NOT a JW!

 

[Calminian]

I realize that there are many on this board that are not 'Christians' (especially in this section - duh, right? ). We all have our beliefs, different as they may be, but this question is really for those here who are 'Christians'. Others need not answer. (Not to hurt any feelings or anything - I just doubt I'll get the answers I'm looking for if you're not a 'Christian'.)

So - why does Jesus have to be God?

I don't believe he is, therefore I cannot be labled a 'Christian' here although I do believe:

7 day literal creation
one God - Yahweh
Jesus was God's son and our sacrificial lamb
the only way of salvation is through Jesus, our Messiah

No, I am NOT a JW!

Jesus has to be God, because scripture reveals Him as God. One of the reasons this is held as an essential doctrine is the testimony of Jesus in John 8.

John 8:24 I said, therefore, to you, that ye shall die in your sins, for if ye may not believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.’

This phrase that He used "I am" is significant. He is using the name for God that God gave to Moses.

Ex. 3:14 And God saith unto Moses, ‘I AM THAT WHICH I AM;’ He saith also, ‘Thus dost thou say to the sons of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.’

Jesus made it clear that He was this God.

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, ‘Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham’s coming — I am;’

The jews weren't confused about this at all judging by their reaction.

John 8:59 they took up, therefore, stones that they may cast at him, but Jesus hid himself, and went forth out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

 

[exegeses]

Ex. 3:14 And God saith unto Moses, ‘I AM THAT WHICH I AM;’

This is one of several verses in the Bible that can be translated into English in different ways. The common translation (above) is very convienent for our language - especially when Jesus then uses the *very* common words "I am" - words that seem to magically take on special meaning only when said by Jesus. The most 'honest' translation of Ex. 3:14 I've seen is "I will be what I will be". Why don't we see this more? Because then Jesus' words "I am" loose their significance.

That doesn't really answer my question, though. I really don't want to get into a debate on the differences why we can read the same verses and draw different conclusions.

So why does Jesus HAVE to be God?

I'm leaving this as open ended as possible and don't want to give any examples, because I don't want to imply any beliefs. I'd like to get it 'from the horse's mouth' so-to-speak. (Hope that made sense.)

 

[Confess]

Where does your faith in a "god" come from? How do you know him?

We know Jesus based on history and from what God revealed to us in the Bible.

Anything else is self reasoning and a creation of your own idol.

 

[Stinker]

I realize that there are many on this board that are not 'Christians' (especially in this section - duh, right? ). We all have our beliefs, different as they may be, but this question is really for those here who are 'Christians'. Others need not answer. (Not to hurt any feelings or anything - I just doubt I'll get the answers I'm looking for if you're not a 'Christian'.)

So - why does Jesus have to be God?

I don't believe he is, therefore I cannot be labled a 'Christian' here although I do believe:

7 day literal creation
one God - Yahweh
Jesus was God's son and our sacrificial lamb
the only way of salvation is through Jesus, our Messiah

No, I am NOT a JW!

"Why does Jesus have to be God?"

Because a perfect sacrifice was required to restore fellowship between humans and God. Since only God is perfect, that was what was required.

 

[exegeses]

Where does your faith in a "god" come from? How do you know him?

We know Jesus based on history and from what God revealed to us in the Bible.

Anything else is self reasoning and a creation of your own idol.

Where does your faith in a "god" come from?

I assume you're asking what my faith in God is based on? The Bible, pure and simple. Not man's ideas - God's.

I assume that my answer is needed for you to answer my question?

 

[exegeses]

Thank you for your answer, Stinker - now we're getting somewhere!

Because a perfect sacrifice was required to restore fellowship between humans and God.

I agree.

Since only God is perfect, that was what was required.

Are you saying that Jesus couldn't be perfect unless he was God?

 

[talitha]

It is only because of the one perfect sacrifice of Jesus that we (humans) can be made perfect and able to fellowship with the Source of Eternal Life, the Creator and Lord of the universe, Yahweh.

 

[exegeses]

It is only because of the one perfect sacrifice of Jesus that we (humans) can be made perfect and able to fellowship with the Source of Eternal Life, the Creator and Lord of the universe, Yahweh.

But it doesn't answer the question!

 

[salida]

Exeg--

Jesus is God because the Bible (Word of God) says He is. I'm the messenger and didn't write the Bible. And if you doubt the Bible's validity and objective truth I suggest you read Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (went from an athiest to a christian) and A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel (also was an athiest and now a christian). The Bible has overwhelming evidence that support it and so its the most true book in the world. Also, there is Evidence that Demands A Verdict Vol I and II by Josh McDowell.

The one thing that stands out more than anything is that there is hundreds of detailed prophesies that has come true and more to be fulfilled in the Bible.

 

[talitha]

It is only because of the one perfect sacrifice of Jesus that we (humans) can be made perfect and able to fellowship with the Source of Eternal Life, the Creator and Lord of the universe, Yahweh.

But it doesn't answer the question!

Actually, it was meant to answer this question:

Are you saying that Jesus couldn't be perfect unless he was God?

No one is perfect except God and His children. Jesus is the only begotten son of God, the Bible says, so He is perfect. No one else can become a child of God except he be born again by way of the blood of Jesus. If Jesus were not God's son, ie:God, then he would not have been a perfect sacrifice.

In your OP you stated that you believe that Jesus is God's son. How can you believe that and not believe that He is God? Image of the Invisible, the Bible says.

blessings
tal

 

[exegeses]

Jesus is God because the Bible (Word of God) says He is. I'm the messenger and didn't write the Bible. And if you doubt the Bible's validity and objective truth I suggest you read Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (went from an athiest to a christian) and A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel (also was an athiest and now a christian). The Bible has overwhelming evidence that support it and so its the most true book in the world. Also, there is Evidence that Demands A Verdict Vol I and II by Josh McDowell.

The one thing that stands out more than anything is that there is hundreds of detailed prophesies that has come true and more to be fulfilled in the Bible.

Yep - I agree whole-heartedly. God's word (the scriptures) are absolute truth. By your reply, though, it sounds as if you assume that I don't think so. Unfortunately, Christians across the myriad denominations many times disagree on interpretation. (e.g. baptism vs. sprinkling)

You obviously interpret the Bible to say that Jesus is God, while I interpret it as saying that Jesus is the Son of God - no more, no less. That being said, the question still remains - Why does it seem to be 'necessary' that Jesus be God?

 

[tpony298]

Try....
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
Sincerely Pony

 

[exegeses]

No one is perfect except God and His children. Jesus is the only begotten son of God, the Bible says, so He is perfect. No one else can become a child of God except he be born again by way of the blood of Jesus.

If Jesus were not God's son, ie:God, then he would not have been a perfect sacrifice.

Are you saying that being God's son is equal to being God himself? Adam was created a perfect son of God - but I'm sure you'll agree that he wasn't God! Jesus was also created as a perfect son of God - but was begotton. (Came forth from the womb instead of the dust of the earth.)

In your OP you stated that you believe that Jesus is God's son. How can you believe that and not believe that He is God? Image of the Invisible, the Bible says.

Again - Adam and the angels are truly 'sons of God' - likewise, we also are called 'sons of God' (by adoption). If a 'son of God' is the same as being God, this creates a problem. Your line of reasoning must be followed through to the end ('son of God' = God), do you see where that leads?

 

[tpony298]

or how about

Joh 17:11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

or:

Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;

straigh plain english from the Bible...

love Pony

 

[exegeses]

Try....
John 10:30I and the Father are one.

Try...
John 17:21-23 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

If you use the same line of reasoning, then you must extend this to mean that we also are God! Of course, this is not so. As this clarifies, this 'oneness' is in purpose - not in substance.

This can be further exemplified by Mark 10:8 - And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

This is speaking of marriage, of course. But we would all agree that a husband and wife are not 'one person'.

Really, though, I didn't intend to bandy scriptures back and forth - just wanted to know why Jesus NEEDS/HAS TO BE God?

 

[LovesToRead]

Are you saying that being God's son is equal to being God himself? Adam was created a perfect son of God - but I'm sure you'll agree that he wasn't God! Jesus was also created as a perfect son of God - but was begotton. (Came forth from the womb instead of the dust of the earth.)

Jesus was not created. He always was and took on human flesh. He and the Holy Spirit have all the same characteristics as God the Father.

 

[LovesToRead]

Jesus also accepted the worship of His followers, who exclaimed to Him - "My Lord and my God."

So, He was accepting them recgonizing Him as in the position of God.

These are all very interesting and thought provoking questions. I've been having many conversations on the Trinity with my husband and one of the things I have to accept is the mystery of the Trinity. We can't always understand what is.

I'm glad you started this thread, thank you.

 

[LovesToRead]

By the way, I neglected to mention, welcome to the Christian Forums. Please let me know if I can help you figure things out around here. It's a big place and there are lots of topics and interesting people.

I hope you enjoy yourself here.

 

[exegeses]

Jesus was not created. He always was and took on human flesh. He and the Holy Spirit have all the same characteristics as God the Father.

I'm sure that you could give me several scriptures that you feel 'prove' this, just as I could also provide several scriptures that I feel 'disprove' it. Unfortunately, I think that it would get us nowhere fast.

I am not asking for 'proof' that Jesus is God - just why does Christiandom insist that he MUST BE God?

one of the things I have to accept is the mystery of the Trinity. We can't always understand what is.

MYSTERY of the trinity? Yep - it sure is!!!!
The funny thing is that there are NO MYSTERIES in the scriptures that were not fully explained and given to us to understand! (Do a Bible study on the NT 'mysteries'. Very interesting!) When people start saying 'it's a mystery - we can't really understand it' - that's a cop-out!