Question for Catholics?

[Mock]

Before I begin I would like to say I am not a Catholic and not here to say negative comments towards Catholics.

I have read that Catholics believe as long as you give your life to the lord or aka believe in Jesus no matter what religion that you will go to heaven. Now that is what I am thought to believe if I am wrong about this and this Catholic belief let me know.

My question is, If this is so then why keep all the religion and rules*Not talking about the rules in the bible* and routines?

 

[Anhelyna]

We do not know with any degree of certainty who will go to Heaven.

We hope in God's mercy and forgiveness when He judges us

 

[Mock]

Well actually in the bible it says the requirements to enter Heaven. Of coarse me or you do not know each person who will enter, but I would rather not be hoping and be more confident and certain to know exactly that I am going to Heaven before I even die.

 

[Davidnic]

Well we do not make a claim to know who God will save no matter what. We believe that Catholicism has the fullness of the Truth and that if someone knows that and understands it they can not reject it. We believe that God will not punish someone who seeks to love Him but does not know how to do it best.

We also believe that someone can have what is called invincible ignorance in relation to Catholicism where they have been brought up so strictly to not see the Truth that it is very difficult for human means to show them. In those cases, we trust in God to work in their hearts.

But if someone is capable of seeing the best way to follow the Lord and rejects it because it is too difficult then that is not good.

Catholics believe that there are two sources of Truth. Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition is not cultural or do's and don'ts that came up over time. It is the things that Christ taught the Apostles that is not in Scripture.

Scripture says that there are things that are not contained within or written down. It is mentioned in The Gospel of John at the end and in Paul (2 Thess. 2:15). We believe that the Church exists, preserving unchanged, the oral instructions that are Sacred Tradition. Scripture and Tradition from the two pillars of the Faith.

So that is why we keep those rules...because we lack the authority to reject them without doing the same thing as rejecting Scripture.

You will often hear the term the Church did not come out of the Bible, the Bible came out of the Church. This is because the Church existed for some time before the New Testament was written and even longer before the canon of Scripture was decided. It was under the infallible guidance of the Councils protected by the Holy Spirit and preserved Oral Tradition (also protected) that Scripture was able to be gathered into the authoritative inspired texts out off all the other texts claiming inspiration. So salvation must have been accomplished before Scripture was collected and completed. And someone or something must have had the authority to determine what was inspired text and what was not...or else it was all a matter of opinion. And we believe that was done by the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, with preserved Sacred Tradition already existing and protected.

So we keep all of the rules and religion because we believe it is the best way as well as the normative way God has called people to Him. And once we know this, we can not reject it without being responsible for rejecting the Truth.

As far as salvation by other means...we can not speak for God in how he chooses to bring people to Him in a world with a fractured Christian faith. But we do not abandon what we know to be true because we are commanded to take the Gospel (Good News) to the ends of the earth. And that is not only the Written Word in Scripture, but also the preserved Oral Sacred Tradition.

We believe that there is the visible union with the Church and the Truth she holds. But we also believe that God may lead some to an invisible union with the Church and that Truth that we can not see. But since we can not know who that happens with and when it does...we carry out Christ's command to spread the Gospel.

So that's why we do it how we do it.

 

[Mock]

So, who came up with these traditions and how is it that you know the apostles were taught this, basically what you going by? I realize their were church's before the bible was made, with that said if it was so important and so implemented these days why did God not mention it in the bible? If your saying by word of mouth and such what about other religions who is to say they are right or wrong. Basically your doing tradition just in case?

Also not knowing how to love God best? explain? I never knew they're was a way to love God differently. I am guessing you are talking about other religions.

Why I ask about traditions is, Jesus himself did not seem to do many traditions himself nor did he teach of some of the ones we do*according to the bible*, not just of Catholics but of many religions.

Also what is the purpose of the pope?

Also once again not trying to cause a stir, just curious about the Catholic faith and want some answers. I know some but not much.

 

[Davidnic]

So, who came up with these traditions and how is it that you know the apostles were taught this, basically what you going by? I realize their were church's before the bible was made, with that said if it was so important and so implemented these days why did God not mention it in the bible? If your saying by word of mouth and such what about other religions who is to say they are right or wrong. Basically your doing tradition just in case?

Also not knowing how to love God best? explain? I never knew they're was a way to love God differently. I am guessing you are talking about other religions.

Why I ask about traditions is, Jesus himself did not seem to do many traditions himself nor did he teach of some of the ones we do*according to the bible*, not just of Catholics but of many religions.

Also what is the purpose of the pope?

Also once again not trying to cause a stir, just curious about the Catholic faith and want some answers. I know some but not much.

We know the Apostles were taught it because those they taught mention the existence of the Traditions. As does Paul. There is a whole set of Early Church Fathers, whose writings we have, and the earliest were taught by the Apostles and mention Sacred Tradition.

Normally something was not included in the Bible because it was not challenged. It was accepted. The four Gospels each have an intended audience in their time as well as the universal audience of all people in all times. But what they contain (or do not contain) is very much based on who the immediate audience was. Matthew writes to a Jewish audience to explain how Christ fulfilled the Messianic prophecies. The contents of his Gospel are geared to that fact. The Gospel of Mark was dictated by Peter to Mark. Mark was the secretary for Peter on his travels and eventually sent Egypt where he became a Bishop there. But his Gospel was written fro a Roman audience. It contains many things that would not need to be explained to a Jewish audience but are needed to make a Roman audience understand. John is written to prove the Divine nature of Christ so that we may believe, he focuses on miracles and signs and wonders. Luke writes for gentiles but unlike the short Gospel of Mark (Mark being the oldest Gospel) it is meant to be more than an introduction. It is written by a doctor and attempts to be specific historically. And the letters of Paul, as well as the non-Pauline letters are written to places to address crisis. So they mention issue relating to those crisis. Even John says that all of Christ's deeds are not recorded and he wrote his Gospel for a purpose that we may believe. It was never the intent of the inspired writers to record everything.

So Scripture does not set out to have every answer and it does not claim to do so. And that is because Sacred Tradition is already present as shown in the writings of those taught by the Apostles and those they taught in return. Here is some information on Tradition: link

As far as loving God best. It is not a matter of loving Him best. It is a matter of finding the best way to love Him by doing the totality of His will.

If a parent gives us a list and writes it down but also puts a family member in charge to whom they explain how they want the list done, we would love our parents best by following the total nature of their instructions through the list and the explanations of the one they entrusting the full instructions both written and verbal to.

We can still love them without both, but if we know and understand that they gave instructions in greater detail to someone and we ignore them we are not loving them in the best possible way by following what they want to the fullest. That is an imperfect but passable analogy.

As far as the Pope. The Pope is the successor to Peter. He is given the same authority Peter had with the twelve. The Pope can be a huge topic.

Here is some information on the Pope and his authority: Link

Basically the Pope is there to guide the Church on earth and to keep it from error. He is not sinless or perfect. But the Holy Spirit protects him from error when he speaks with the Teaching Authority with intent to speak on matters of faith and morals in his role as Pope. Even when we had bad people as Popes (and we did) they never used this improperly or changed Tradition. The Holy Spirit would not allow it. Now, they did do sinful things, but we do not claim the Pope is personally impeccable. He can sin and even make errors as a personal theologian. But he can not teach error with what we call Magisterial authority (the Teaching authority).

The Pope and the Councils of Bishops in union with the Pope is how the Church is guided. The Council of Jerusalem, described in Acts of the Apostles, was the first Council of the Church. Councils are called when some pressing matter needing the attention of the Church rises.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Before I begin I would like to say I am not a Catholic and not here to say negative comments towards Catholics.

I have read that Catholics believe as long as you give your life to the lord or aka believe in Jesus no matter what religion that you will go to heaven. Now that is what I am thought to believe if I am wrong about this and this Catholic belief let me know.

My question is, If this is so then why keep all the religion and rules*Not talking about the rules in the bible* and routines?

Catholics do not believe "as long as you give your life to the lord or aka believe in Jesus no matter what religion that you will go to heaven."

What we do believe is this:

1. Faith in Jesus Christ is the normal requirement for any reasonable hope of entering heaven. There may be exceptions to this but if there are any exceptions it is God who will decide what those exceptions are and to whom he will extend his grace and mercy.
2. Although it is possible to be saved without ever having been a member of the Catholic Church it is, nevertheless, more likely that those who were faithful Christians in communion with the Catholic Church will, upon their death, realize the Christian hope and be received into heaven (See Romans 8:18-27 especially vv 24 & 25).
3. God is merciful to all and wills that all will come to a saving knowledge of his Son, our Lord, Jesus Christ (See Titus 2:11-14; 1Timothy 2:1-6). We therefore hold open the possibility that God's mercy is extended to the salvation of those who sought for him but were not granted the gift of the gospel in their life time (See Acts 17:22-31 especially vv 26-31).

Now, when you ask, "why keep all the religion and rules*Not talking about the rules in the bible* and routines?" the only answer a Catholic can give is this:

God will judge every one by what they have done and what they have said. If a religion (a non-Christian religion) encourages people to live a moral life, to be kind, to show mercy, to forgive those who have done them wrong, then there is, in scripture (See Matthew 6:14,15), some reasons to think that such people's efforts will not be in vain (Romans 1:12-16).
​

I hope that these considerations will give you some food for thought.


Cheers.

 

[Elvisman]

Before I begin I would like to say I am not a Catholic and not here to say negative comments towards Catholics.

I have read that Catholics believe as long as you give your life to the lord or aka believe in Jesus no matter what religion that you will go to heaven. Now that is what I am thought to believe if I am wrong about this and this Catholic belief let me know.

My question is, If this is so then why keep all the religion and rules*Not talking about the rules in the bible* and routines?

Honest questions deserve honest answers - and so far there have been some really good ones.
I would just like to add the following.

The Catholic Church does not teach that anybody who gives their life to the Lord, no matter what religion, will go to heaven. What the Church DOES teach is Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus - Outside the Church there is No Salvation.
This means that although Jesus is the CAUSE of our redemption and salvation - we are saved THROUGH His Body, the Church.

At the Last Supper, Jesus told the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church to ALL truth. Not just SOME truth - but ALL of it. He also told them that the Holy Spirit would take from what was His (Jesus's) and declare it to the Church (John 16:12-15). This includes all of His Authority.

If you go back to Matthew's Gospel, you will see that Jesus conferred this Authority onto othe Church a couple of times (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18), as he did elswhere (Luke 10:16).

The Bible refers to Jesus as Truth itself (John 14:6).
It refers to the Church as the "Pillar and Foundation" of that Truth - 1 Tim. 3:15.
It calls the Church the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
Jesus told the church that whatever she ordained on earth would be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).
Finally - Jesus compares the Church with His very SELF (Acts 9:4-5).

Therefore, we are bound by EVERYTHING the Church officially teaches us because of her God-given Authority.

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus states that some outside the visible realm of the Church MAY achieve salvation if they are invincibly ignorant of the truth, yet seek to serve God with sincere hearts and moved by grace (CCC 847).

This is not a guarantee, as those spiritually blind individuals are left to the mercy of God.

In John 9:41, Jesus told the Pharisees after healing the blind man, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say,'We see.' Therefore your sin remains.

 

[Mock]

Thanks for the responses their were alot!

I got a few more questions if you don't mind just trying to get clarify some more things to get a better understanding and reasoning behind things.

Why do you confess sins to a priest? was that not in the old convent. I see no scriptures anywhere of confession to priest and states in the bible many times that when jesus died on the cross for us, that God is the holy priest now and that we can go to straight to him.

(Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21)
Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.and since we have a great priest over the house of God

I saw some feedback on the pope but their is still nothing about the pope guiding the church or leading it. in our time.

Also I know you do not worship mary but why are their so many idols of her and people bow infront of her and pray infront of her is that not idol worship or worshiping her?

What do you think about these scriptures as in against traditions?

(Matthew 15:8-9)
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power


(Colossians 2:8-10)
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

Please if you could answer every question, sorry I took so long to respond I was very busy. I appreciate everyon's answers so far they were very informational. I just want some proof of some of the stuff and more clarity that is all.

 

[Foundthelight]

Thanks for the responses their were alot!

I got a few more questions if you don't mind just trying to get clarify some more things to get a better understanding and reasoning behind things.

Why do you confess sins to a priest? was that not in the old convent. I see no scriptures anywhere of confession to priest and states in the bible many times that when jesus died on the cross for us, that God is the holy priest now and that we can go to straight to him.

Jas_5:16 Confess therefore your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The supplication of a righteous man availeth much in its working.

1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

In the early church, this confession to each other as called for in James was a very public act in front of the congregation. This proved unworkable and gradually evolved into a private confession with the priest, mostly to prevent negative repercussions against the sinner. The only churches that I know of that follow this biblical command to confess are those the can show Apostolic Succession, such as Roman Catholic and those Eastern Rite churches in communion with Rome, the Eastern and Russian Orthodox, Coptic and etc. This biblical command is ignored by all Protestant Churches.

(Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21)
Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.and since we have a great priest over the house of God

I saw some feedback on the pope but their is still nothing about the pope guiding the church or leading it. in our time.

Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
Act 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Act 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

This is how God wanted us to appoint successors to the Apostles, of which Peter was the leader. There can be no valid Biblical leadership without such succession. The Chair of Peter is held by one who is selected in just this manner to be senior pastor of the Church.

Also I know you do not worship mary but why are their so many idols of her and people bow infront of her and pray infront of her is that not idol worship or worshiping her?

Do you not look in love upon the Cross in your church. Is that not an idol? Do your children color pictures of Christ in Sunday School? What is the difference? We ask Mary to pray for us and go to her Son, our Judge, in our behalf. We do not worship her or any image.

What do you think about these scriptures as in against traditions?

(Matthew 15:8-9)
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power


(Colossians 2:8-10)
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for these things, give diligence that ye may be found in peace, without spot and blameless in his sight.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness.

1Co_11:2 Now I praise you that ye remember me in all things, and hold fast the traditions, even as I delivered them to you.

2Th_2:15 So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours.

One is ignorant is one is untaught. One can be carried away by error if they are taught falsely. The Catholic Church has taught the same truths since the beginning, not being swayed by the needs and demands of the society we live in.

Please if you could answer every question, sorry I took so long to respond I was very busy. I appreciate everyon's answers so far they were very informational. I just want some proof of some of the stuff and more clarity that is all.

I hope the above helps.

 

[Foundthelight]

Idols are graven images created by men to be worshiped as gods. Let us look at the second verse of the first commandment.

Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me,

Is the first commandment an absolute prohibition or are there examples of allowed images?

Exo_25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubim of gold; of beaten work shalt thou make them, at the two ends of the mercy-seat.

Num 21:8 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live.
Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and set it upon the standard: and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he looked unto the serpent of brass, he lived.

Since God is true to His own laws and does not capriciously break them, we assume the the graven image prohibition is in regard to Idols to be worshiped.

Also, let us look at the state of literacy of most Christians throughout history until the invention of the printing press. We can see that most could not read and did not have access to books. Visual aids were required to reinforce the spoken word. Icons, Statues, and etc. were important learning tools.

I hope this helps.

 

[Elvisman]

Thanks for the responses their were alot!

I got a few more questions if you don't mind just trying to get clarify some more things to get a better understanding and reasoning behind things.

Why do you confess sins to a priest? was that not in the old convent. I see no scriptures anywhere of confession to priest and states in the bible many times that when jesus died on the cross for us, that God is the holy priest now and that we can go to straight to him.

(Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21)
Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.and since we have a great priest over the house of God

What do you think about these scriptures as in against traditions?

(Matthew 15:8-9)

(Colossians 2:8-10)

When Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for their “traditions of men”, it was because they were in direct conflict with God’s teachings. They abused the true traditions. They were nitpicking through the Traditions and washing rituals and placing more importance on the fact that the Apostles didn’t wash their hands before eating. Jesus put them in their place because they were hypocrites when it came to the Commandments:

Matt. 15:4-6
For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,” he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.
This is what Jesus meant by the doctrines and precepts of men being placed above the Word of God.

Jesus and the NT writers appealed to Tradition – NOT Scripture in the following verses:
Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is oral tradition. It is not found in the Old Testament.
Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the oral tradition of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Acts 20:35 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles for this statement ("it is better to give than to receive") of Jesus. It is not recorded in the Gospels.
1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament.
Jude 9 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

As for why we confess our sins to a priest – the Bible is clear.
The practice of telling our sins directly to a priest is based directly in Scripture. Three times in the Gospels (Matt. 16:19, 18:18 and John 20:23), we read where Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins or to hold them bound. This is not a something that Jesus took lightly. In John 20:21-23, Jesus (who is God) breathes on the Apostles as he is giving them this power:
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

The fact that Jesus breathed on the Apostles when entrusted them with this ministry is highly significant because he doesn’t do this anywhere else in the New Testament. In fact, there are only two times in ALL of Scripture where God breathes on man:
The first is when he breathed life into Adam. The second is here in John’s Gospel when he is giving them the power to forgive or retain sins.

The practice of confessing your sins to the Church is an ancient one that goes all the way back to the Apostles themselves. We see this in the 1st century document, the Didache (The Teachings of the Twelve Apostles), where it emphatically states the necessity of confessing our sins to the Church:
“Confess your sins in Church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . , On the Lord's Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure” (Didache 4:14,14:1 [A.D.70]).

St. Paul makes no small case for this ministry of reconciliation clearly in 2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states, “Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence of Christ”

 

[Mock]

Thanks for the replies, alot of the scriptures were explained good but my problem is some of their were more speculation and some just contridcted one another which is more confusing.

Also apostles are alot diffrent then priest and it never says the power should be passed down over years, so it really counts out the pope and the priest.

I just think the whole Mary thing is very dumb. Out of everything I have heard so far. I like the feedback though

about priest

But you (all Christians) are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; " 1 Peter 2:9

Jesus has made us (all Christians) to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6

You have made them (all Christians) to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Revelation 5:10

you (all Christians) also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. " 1 Peter 2:5

 

[Foundthelight]

Thanks for the replies, alot of the scriptures were explained good but my problem is some of their were more speculation and some just contridcted one another which is more confusing.

Also apostles are alot diffrent then priest and it never says the power should be passed down over years, so it really counts out the pope and the priest.

I just think the whole Mary thing is very dumb. Out of everything I have heard so far. I like the feedback though

about priest

But you (all Christians) are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; " 1 Peter 2:9

Jesus has made us (all Christians) to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6

You have made them (all Christians) to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Revelation 5:10

you (all Christians) also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. " 1 Peter 2:5

Dear Mock,

We have an example of the passing of power. Where does the Bible say that such an example is not to be followed throughout time? Were not priests designated by Apostles and their chosen followers?

 

[Elvisman]

Thanks for the replies, alot of the scriptures were explained good but my problem is some of their were more speculation and some just contridcted one another which is more confusing.

Also apostles are alot diffrent then priest and it never says the power should be passed down over years, so it really counts out the pope and the priest.

REALLY?
My Bible says that the Apostles did just that in Acts 1:15-26 when they replaced Judas with Matthias.
It explicitly states that they chose Matthias to replace Judas' "Episkopay" (Bishopric).
This clearly shows Apostolic Succession.

Jesus didn't leave a Church of chaos and anarchy, but a visible Church with clear leadership

I just think the whole Mary thing is very dumb. Out of everything I have heard so far. I like the feedback though

Mary is "dumb"? What about the Marian doctrines are dumb?
The fact that they're Biblical or the fact that they were all supported by the Early Church?

about priest

But you (all Christians) are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; " 1 Peter 2:9

Jesus has made us (all Christians) to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6

You have made them (all Christians) to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Revelation 5:10

you (all Christians) also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. " 1 Peter 2:5

Sorry, but you're tragically mistaken. Jesus didn't come to get rid of anything - he came to perfect it and FULFILL it.

In the Old Testament, there were THREE levels of Priests: Aaron, the High Priest, the Ministerial/Levitical Priesthood, and the rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

In the New Testament, there are also THREE levels of Priests: Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25), the Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15) and the general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

Not really sure what your objections are . . .

 

[Michie]

Matthew 5:17-18

The Fulfillment of the Law

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

 

[Elvisman]

I just think the whole Mary thing is very dumb. Out of everything I have heard so far. I like the feedback though

Again - what is "dumb" about the "whole Mary thing"?
Is there a particular Marian Doctrine you find offensive or absurd?