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Question Concerning Wof
- Thread starter churchlady
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What?
- Oct 23, 2003
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This is false, if it relates to the OP. People who reject WOF may actually do it withouth abandoning the faith and the Jesus image of the Father, and may actually be just as right or even more, than WOF, for what they are called to do. I think it's foolish to infer that non-WOF'ers are missing the calling God has on them, and I'd be willing to say there are WOF who are doing the same. One body, different parts.
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NorrinRadd
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Tenebrae
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In my opinion
What characterizes a WoF adherent, much the sort of attitude displayed by this poster. Unable to address the points made, and instead resorts to attacking the person and playing with semantics
Thanks Dids, you just illustrated my point perfectly
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bithiah2
Jah is my strength and song!
Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message?
To whom has the Lord revealed his powerful arm?
2 My servant grew up in the Lords presence like a tender green shoot,
like a root in dry ground.
There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance,
nothing to attract us to him.
3 He was despised and rejected
a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief.
We turned our backs on him and looked the other way.
He was despised, and we did not care.
4 Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
it was our sorrows[a] that weighed him down.
And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,
a punishment for his own sins!
5 But he was pierced for our rebellion,
crushed for our sins.
He was beaten so we could be whole.
He was whipped so we could be healed.
6 All of us, like sheep, have strayed away.
We have left Gods paths to follow our own.
Yet the Lord laid on him
the sins of us all.
7 He was oppressed and treated harshly,
yet he never said a word.
He was led like a lamb to the slaughter.
And as a sheep is silent before the shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 Unjustly condemned,
he was led away.[b]
No one cared that he died without descendants,
that his life was cut short in midstream.[c]
But he was struck down
for the rebellion of my people.
9 He had done no wrong
and had never deceived anyone.
But he was buried like a criminal;
he was put in a rich mans grave. 10 But it was the Lords good plan to crush him
and cause him grief.
Yet when his life is made an offering for sin,
he will have many descendants.
He will enjoy a long life,
and the Lords good plan will prosper in his hands.
11 When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish,
he will be satisfied.
And because of his experience,
my righteous servant will make it possible
for many to be counted righteous,
for he will bear all their sins.
12 I will give him the honors of a victorious soldier,
because he exposed himself to death.
He was counted among the rebels.
He bore the sins of many and interceded for rebels.
i don't think it's fair to paint everyone with a broad brush, although i have encountered people who say they are WOF come across as insensitive. but i have not met all of them.
i read part of the article, and i believe that in all things, God has the last say. and, there are some things that He has given us a choice in. we cannot blame God for our car being repossesed or being put out of our house if we choose not to pay the bills. that is not God's fault, it is ours. we are supposed to seek guidance from God in everything, and He will let us know what is right, sometimes we already know because He put what is right in our hearts.
anyway Churchlady thank you for your prayers. you can pray for me anytime.
bithiah2
1 Who has believed our message?
To whom has the Lord revealed his powerful arm?
2 My servant grew up in the Lords presence like a tender green shoot,
like a root in dry ground.
There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance,
nothing to attract us to him.
3 He was despised and rejected
a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief.
We turned our backs on him and looked the other way.
He was despised, and we did not care.
4 Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
it was our sorrows[a] that weighed him down.
And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,
a punishment for his own sins!
5 But he was pierced for our rebellion,
crushed for our sins.
He was beaten so we could be whole.
He was whipped so we could be healed.
6 All of us, like sheep, have strayed away.
We have left Gods paths to follow our own.
Yet the Lord laid on him
the sins of us all.
7 He was oppressed and treated harshly,
yet he never said a word.
He was led like a lamb to the slaughter.
And as a sheep is silent before the shearers,
he did not open his mouth.
8 Unjustly condemned,
he was led away.[b]
No one cared that he died without descendants,
that his life was cut short in midstream.[c]
But he was struck down
for the rebellion of my people.
9 He had done no wrong
and had never deceived anyone.
But he was buried like a criminal;
he was put in a rich mans grave. 10 But it was the Lords good plan to crush him
and cause him grief.
Yet when his life is made an offering for sin,
he will have many descendants.
He will enjoy a long life,
and the Lords good plan will prosper in his hands.
11 When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish,
he will be satisfied.
And because of his experience,
my righteous servant will make it possible
for many to be counted righteous,
for he will bear all their sins.
12 I will give him the honors of a victorious soldier,
because he exposed himself to death.
He was counted among the rebels.
He bore the sins of many and interceded for rebels.
i don't think it's fair to paint everyone with a broad brush, although i have encountered people who say they are WOF come across as insensitive. but i have not met all of them.
i read part of the article, and i believe that in all things, God has the last say. and, there are some things that He has given us a choice in. we cannot blame God for our car being repossesed or being put out of our house if we choose not to pay the bills. that is not God's fault, it is ours. we are supposed to seek guidance from God in everything, and He will let us know what is right, sometimes we already know because He put what is right in our hearts.
anyway Churchlady thank you for your prayers. you can pray for me anytime.
bithiah2
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T
Telestar
Guest
LOL!!!!
But you wrote the posts! I did not write anything except to refer you back to your own posts! So are you sayiing there was something wrong with your own posts that offended you when they were directed back at you??? What was it about your own post that was "unpleasant" (your words not mine) and "attacking" (again, your words not mine)? Why was it that your own post when directed at WoFers was OK... but when that same post was directed back at you it suddenly became offfensive?
By your own words, YOUR post was offensive, attacking, and unpleasant.
Interesting....
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On the negative side I believe a percentage of people who love money embrace WoF theology. [lunatic fringe?]
On the positive side I believe a percentage of people who have great faith in the healing nature of our Father in heaven embrace WoF theology.
I don't believe there are common characteristics. Everyone is different.
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It's difficult to classify the people who are WoF, but I think that it is easier to think in terms of 3 groups:
1. Those who are immediately repulsed.
2. Those who follow the teachings for a while and move on.
3. Those who are long term adherents.
It's hard to lump people into those groups, but I can give my experience. I have been a believer for quite a spell, but wasn't really living for Christ. About 3 years back, I began to spend more time in the Word and prayer and I found myself desiring to order my life such that God was my first priority. At this time, I had some close friends who were WoF (raised that way). I was initially attracted to WoF because I desired to live for God, I wanted a deeper relationship that I often heard described, and I felt that there should be something more than what I had grown up knowning. My wife and I had to move rather suddenly and we haven't had much connection with the friends that originally introduced us to WoF. Over the past year or so, I have definitely found myself moving away from WoF for 2 main reasons:
1. I immersed myself in the Word and over time had to accept that the full counsel of God's Word didn't always line up with the teaching that I was hearing. There was a lot of proof texting - using the Bible as a tool, if you will, rather than a guide and authority.
2. On the surface, I found WoF attractive, but as I learned the foundational doctrines that WoF is built on, I was confronted with a lot of things that I didn't truly believe to be true.
It was not easy to move on, and I didn't do it lightly. I just found that I didn't really fit any longer with WoF and differed at least as often as I agreed. The hardest part really is that while I was in WoF, I looked at WoF as "The" thing that God was doing in our time.
Hope this helps. I don't want to bash WoF people. Some of the most earnest and loving believers that I have known have been WoF. I just wanted to paint a picture of why I was in WoF but only for a spell.
God Bless...
1. Those who are immediately repulsed.
2. Those who follow the teachings for a while and move on.
3. Those who are long term adherents.
It's hard to lump people into those groups, but I can give my experience. I have been a believer for quite a spell, but wasn't really living for Christ. About 3 years back, I began to spend more time in the Word and prayer and I found myself desiring to order my life such that God was my first priority. At this time, I had some close friends who were WoF (raised that way). I was initially attracted to WoF because I desired to live for God, I wanted a deeper relationship that I often heard described, and I felt that there should be something more than what I had grown up knowning. My wife and I had to move rather suddenly and we haven't had much connection with the friends that originally introduced us to WoF. Over the past year or so, I have definitely found myself moving away from WoF for 2 main reasons:
1. I immersed myself in the Word and over time had to accept that the full counsel of God's Word didn't always line up with the teaching that I was hearing. There was a lot of proof texting - using the Bible as a tool, if you will, rather than a guide and authority.
2. On the surface, I found WoF attractive, but as I learned the foundational doctrines that WoF is built on, I was confronted with a lot of things that I didn't truly believe to be true.
It was not easy to move on, and I didn't do it lightly. I just found that I didn't really fit any longer with WoF and differed at least as often as I agreed. The hardest part really is that while I was in WoF, I looked at WoF as "The" thing that God was doing in our time.
Hope this helps. I don't want to bash WoF people. Some of the most earnest and loving believers that I have known have been WoF. I just wanted to paint a picture of why I was in WoF but only for a spell.
God Bless...
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JimB
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Okay, since you asked.
For about a decade (mid-80s to mid-90’s) I followed and taught most of what WOF teaches, although I never ‘officially’ identified with them as a group. I even counted some of the better known WOF teachers among my friends.
Speaking only for myself, I think what attracted me was the idea that somehow I could, through using my faith, control a healing encounter and people would be healed because of me and my faith.
But over time I began to learn that we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excelleny of the power may be of God and not of us (2 Cor. 4.7)—healing had little, maybe nothing, to do with me and everything to do with God. He did not heal because of what I had nor did He refuse to heal because of what I lacked; He simply allowed me the privilege of participating with Him in the great work of the Kingdom. He healed sometimes despite me instead of because of me, but He still allowed me to participate with Him in healing the sick. But He could do it without me.
Once that settled in my spirit I no longer had a place in WOF churches and was lectured enough times on how I was getting it wrong and listening to “faithless” people, etc., that I knew I no longer belonged in fellowship with them.
All that began around 1995; by 1997 I no longer considered myself WOF.
~Jim
For about a decade (mid-80s to mid-90’s) I followed and taught most of what WOF teaches, although I never ‘officially’ identified with them as a group. I even counted some of the better known WOF teachers among my friends.
Speaking only for myself, I think what attracted me was the idea that somehow I could, through using my faith, control a healing encounter and people would be healed because of me and my faith.
But over time I began to learn that we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excelleny of the power may be of God and not of us (2 Cor. 4.7)—healing had little, maybe nothing, to do with me and everything to do with God. He did not heal because of what I had nor did He refuse to heal because of what I lacked; He simply allowed me the privilege of participating with Him in the great work of the Kingdom. He healed sometimes despite me instead of because of me, but He still allowed me to participate with Him in healing the sick. But He could do it without me.
Once that settled in my spirit I no longer had a place in WOF churches and was lectured enough times on how I was getting it wrong and listening to “faithless” people, etc., that I knew I no longer belonged in fellowship with them.
All that began around 1995; by 1997 I no longer considered myself WOF.
~Jim
Famous Last Words:
“Hey, man, that's a cute tattoo.”
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WOF is supposed to simply mean believing what the Bible says above all else and doing it. To do that involves knowing what the Bible says, and that requires a lot of study. And that is what WOF does. That doesn't mean we know it all or have it all correct. Far from it.
What happened in some WOF circles is that people began to take certain parts of the Bible to extremes and completely ignored other parts that would balance what they were saying. And some just began to get weird. A lot left the Word and began to act on experiences or stories they heard.
True WOF is tied to the Word and is something that would not be very controversial if it were taught by a good teacher. Unfortunately, there are not that many good WOF pastors out there.
What happened in some WOF circles is that people began to take certain parts of the Bible to extremes and completely ignored other parts that would balance what they were saying. And some just began to get weird. A lot left the Word and began to act on experiences or stories they heard.
True WOF is tied to the Word and is something that would not be very controversial if it were taught by a good teacher. Unfortunately, there are not that many good WOF pastors out there.
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P
Peaceful Dove
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We Catholic Charismatics are about 90% WOF, I think.
We have some special Prayer Requests and would welcome any WOF's to agree with us over in our sub-forum.
We welcome everybody but putting out a open invitation to WOF's. I didn't do that before.
We have some special Prayer Requests and would welcome any WOF's to agree with us over in our sub-forum.
We welcome everybody but putting out a open invitation to WOF's. I didn't do that before.
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JimB
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Yep, but “supposed to” is the key phrase here.
You sound like a balanced person, Lyon. Unfortunately, it has not been my experience to many balanced people who proudly wear the WOF insignia (either in real life or in this forum). The “extreme” you identify is pretty much the “norm” from my experience.
If there are extremes among WOF’ers, then WOF as a whole needs to identify them and their extreme positions and name them and distance themselves rather than defend them. If someone who wore the insignia of the group I most identify with but went to extremes, I would personally distance myself from them in a heartbeat and I would tell them and the world why I was doing so. If my denomination endorsed extremism, or ignored it, I would have to distance myself from the denomination. What I would never do is endorse or defend it.
So, I, for one, would like to know what actually is "orthodox" WOF as opposed to extreme WOF. I am only hearing one presentation of WOF in this forum ... and it is extreme, IMO.
~Jim
Famous Last Words:
“Hey, man, that's a cute tattoo.”
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