I was wondering what kind of relationship, in general, Messianic Jews have with other Jews (Reformed, Conservative, Orthodox...)?
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Question concerning relations with other Jews
- Thread starter AngCath
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Not a good one unfortunately, they don't acknowlege us as a part of them because of our belief in Yeshua as Messiah, but in the first century this was not the case....How can we blame them though when we have persecuted them for 2000 years in the name of Jesus.AngCath said:
Jesus doesn't look at all like a Jewish Messiah either
He looks like anything but Jewish today yet 2000 years ago he was
Are we asking them to Accept a religion that is different than the one past down to them from Abraham, Issac and Jacob....yes we are and they do not accept out invitation...
If we could restore to them the Messiah that God sent to them 2000 years ago would they accept Him then.....I believe there is a chance...
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amen Tishri dear. well stated.Tishri1 said:Not a good one unfortunately, they don't acknowlege us as a part of them because of our belief in Yeshua as Messiah, but in the first century this was not the case....How can we blame them though when we have persecuted them for 2000 years in the name of Jesus.
Jesus doesn't look at all like a Jewish Messiah either
He looks like anything but Jewish today yet 2000 years ago he was
Are we asking them to Accept a religion that is different than the one past down to them from Abraham, Issac and Jacob....yes we are and they do not accept out invitation...
If we could restore to them the Messiah that God sent to them 2000 years ago would they accept Him then.....I believe there is a chance...
AngCath: welcome to the MJ forum
and I'm glad you asked this question. Tishri explained a bit what it's like as the group of Messianics getting along with the groups of Jews (orthodox, reformed, etc.), however individual relationships like any others may be of different flavors than this explanation.
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Henaynei
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it varies from Messianic Community to Messianic Community and from Jewish Community to Jewish Community..... often where the Messianic Community is more Jewish in their lifestyle and worship it is better than when the Messianic Community is more Christian in their lifestyle and worship
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P_G
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And in fact the opposition to Messianics can be very vehement. There are those in Judaism that actively counter prostlyletize these are knon as anti missionaries.
Stick around the MJf you are sure to meet some
much love
PG
Stick around the MJf you are sure to meet some
much love
PG
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it seems, from my outside point of view, that the source of conflict would be over the name Messianic Jew. I know that that is what I have been told at least.
What are your thoughts?
Again, thanks for answering my questions.
What are your thoughts?
Again, thanks for answering my questions.
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According to Judiasm you are no longer a Jew if you believe Yeshua is Messiah...AngCath said:
Yet it is more than that because they really don't have a problem with someone being Messiah, it is the Trinity aspect they find impossible to accept...so I am thinking that they mainly see the term Jew as contradictory to the term Trinity ...Jews do not believe in the Trinity, therefore pick one or the other but don't choose both is how I understand it (Please correct me if I'm wrong my Jewish friends)
I don't mean to be negeative at all toward my Jewish friends, I can see that this is something they are commanded to do by their leaders (not worship/fellowship with us) It has been around since the first century...but that doesn't mean that the Torah said it...(Personally I believe it was an ancient man made trap...but that is just my opinion)
My prayer is that someday this will be removed and we can all fellowship together...
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CovenantRay
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Shalom:
Being a Jewish believer in Y'shua as the Messiah to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles -- When a more Orthodox Jew makes this declaration, the family mourns the death of that Jew (sits shiva) and will refuse the burial of that believer in a Jewish cemetery.
They will turn their back on that believer and refuse to communicate with them and no longer acknowlege their existance.
Not exactly fellowship. An othodox Jewish believer pays a high personal price to declare their faith in Y'shua.
Todah,
CovenantRay
Being a Jewish believer in Y'shua as the Messiah to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles -- When a more Orthodox Jew makes this declaration, the family mourns the death of that Jew (sits shiva) and will refuse the burial of that believer in a Jewish cemetery.
They will turn their back on that believer and refuse to communicate with them and no longer acknowlege their existance.
Not exactly fellowship. An othodox Jewish believer pays a high personal price to declare their faith in Y'shua.
Todah,
CovenantRay
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Talmidah said:
well let me word it differently then
please share your feelings in fellowship my Jewish Friends
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CovenantRay said:Shalom:
Being a Jewish believer in Y'shua as the Messiah to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles -- When a more Orthodox Jew makes this declaration, the family mourns the death of that Jew (sits shiva) and will refuse the burial of that believer in a Jewish cemetery.
They will turn their back on that believer and refuse to communicate with them and no longer acknowlege their existance.
Not exactly fellowship. An othodox Jewish believer pays a high personal price to declare their faith in Y'shua.
Todah,
CovenantRay
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Talmidah
היום כולם יודעים - הרב כהנא צדק
Tishri1 said:
I'm sorry Tishri. It has nothing to do with how you worded your post. The thing is, in this forum, we are only allowed to ask questions or make fellowship posts that don't really involve religion, thus this time of discussion is really not possible here.
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BummerTalmidah said:
I never liked that rule myself
Hey you could still PM me I'd really appreciate it
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Tishri1 said:
Actually, if you were born to a Jewish mother, then there's no way you can become a non-Jew, religiously speaking. They are Jews who are not considered to be practicing Judaism, but Jews nevertheless.
Sometimes however it takes more than being a Jew. For example, to be entitled to aliyah one must be Jewish (or born of a Jewish father or married to a Jew) and not practice another religion. Messianic Jews would fail to meet such requirement.
I wouldn't say the Trinity is the only thing that bothers us, but yeah when you're used to proclaiming the Sh'ma three times a day, it is tough to accept the Trinity. I'm not debating the belief, just stating a simple fact: that this is a theological point Jews do have a problem with.
I'm afraid I can't comment on the rest of your post without violating the forum rules, unfortunately.
Dave
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Nehemiah_Center,
I'm sorry but opposition to Messianics by some anti-missionary groups are as strong as the disrespectful proselytism done by some Christian groups. Every coin has two sides. Would there be a need for anti-missionaries if there weren't missionaries in the first place? And by missionaries I mean not those who share their faith, but those who use whatever means be them ethical or not to convert people to their own religion, or to lure the ignorant into thinking Judaism is corrupt/incomplete/bad/etc.
Time and again we have missionaries who enter our shul to hand in leaflets and the likes.
That being said there is a guy who goes to our shul and whom I know believes in Jesus. And yet when he's at shul, he respects the place and those who don't know him outside the synagogue can't even imagine he's a Christian. If you ask him, he doesn't deny it. Even the rabbi knows it and is friends with the guy. But he never rubs it on people's faces. Just like when in our shul people start singing "yehee adoneinu" to the Rebbe, I simply stay quiet. If asked, I'll tell them I don't believe the Rebbe is Messiah but I won't rub it on their faces. It's is more often than not a matter of how you behave rather than what you believe in.
Dave
I'm sorry but opposition to Messianics by some anti-missionary groups are as strong as the disrespectful proselytism done by some Christian groups. Every coin has two sides. Would there be a need for anti-missionaries if there weren't missionaries in the first place? And by missionaries I mean not those who share their faith, but those who use whatever means be them ethical or not to convert people to their own religion, or to lure the ignorant into thinking Judaism is corrupt/incomplete/bad/etc.
Time and again we have missionaries who enter our shul to hand in leaflets and the likes.
That being said there is a guy who goes to our shul and whom I know believes in Jesus. And yet when he's at shul, he respects the place and those who don't know him outside the synagogue can't even imagine he's a Christian. If you ask him, he doesn't deny it. Even the rabbi knows it and is friends with the guy. But he never rubs it on people's faces. Just like when in our shul people start singing "yehee adoneinu" to the Rebbe, I simply stay quiet. If asked, I'll tell them I don't believe the Rebbe is Messiah but I won't rub it on their faces. It's is more often than not a matter of how you behave rather than what you believe in.
Dave
Nehemiah_Center said:And in fact the opposition to Messianics can be very vehement. There are those in Judaism that actively counter prostlyletize these are knon as anti missionaries.
Stick around the MJf you are sure to meet some
much love
PG
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Vaneeza Malkah
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The more a messianic jew/gentile knows about judaism (including the Talmud) the stronger and more lively the debate can get as opposed to churchy messianic teachings, however we most often don't seek debate everyday. Orthodox Jews often get the most offended when we compare ourselves to being the most similar to Orthodoxy as opposed to Conservative or Reform. But if I am correct Concervatism is only concerned with the spirit of the law whereas Orthodoxy is concerned with the spirit of the law and the letter of the law, which is the same as the Torah-observant/submissive messianic congregations (though I'd say in some areas we've got a ways to go) we also don't consider Oral Torah to be law but perhaps helpful instructions, though the opinions varies congregation to congregation and person to person.
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