Question concerning baptism

[Lifesaver]

After much thought and consideration on the matter, I decided to take actual steps towards receiving baptism and becoming a Catholic. I talked to the priest and "seminarist" (how do you call that?) at the local church, and we arranged to meet last saturday.

To my surprise, he didn't mention anything about becoming a cathecumen and being baptized in next year's easter vigil. He said we should arrange some more meetings for me to ask questions, told me to read and meditate on particular biblical passages and suggested that I read a book about the life of a saint, and how we should witness to other's through our way of life and behaviour. In 3 weeks or so I should, according to him, to be ready for baptism.

I did tell him that I had read about the different practice, and he told me it wasn't like that since ancient times.

So, I'm in a dilemma. On one hand, I'm very happy that baptism is a simple and direct process, because I'm 100% sure I want it. On the other hand, I'm afraid that maybe my church isn't following the official Church practice with this.

Do you guys know about this, whether it is right or wrong to conduct baptism in this way?
And if it is the case that they are acting improperly, how could I possibly tell them? I mean, they are a priest and a theologian; how can possibly someone who's not even a Catholic yet question their actions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[MParedon]

It is acceptable to personally study with the priest instead of going through R.C.I.A. I think this is usually done when there are very few people interested in the Church and there isn't enough to make up a class, or if there are other circumstances like maybe a catechumen is really advanced compared to the class and needs special attention etc.
R.C.I.A. is practiced widely so I don't know what he means about this only being practiced in ancient times.
If you do study with him, then I suggest you prepare yourself with a Catechism, Early Church Father writings, Apologist writings, or even go to anti-Catholic sites to find challenges that you want refuted (be extremely careful about that). Ask tons of questions. Make sure that this priest knows through your questions that just meditating and reading about a saint isn't going to cut it. Atleast that is what I would do.

These are some things that I would want to be explained if I were a catechumen:

1. Transubstantiation

2. Sacraments

3. Salvation-- Grace=faith + works, assurance?

4. Justification

5. Intercession of Saints

6. Sacrifice of Mass

7. Trinity (and not just the basic answer)

I'm sure the other OBOB posters can help with wether or not you should push for R.C.I.A.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hi

Baptism is not restricted to Easter Vigil. You might ask your priest what his thoughts are regarding RCIA and why some Churches require it. It will give you some insight into the thinking of your priest.

Perhaps he does not think personally need such a lengthy process . .

When you go through the RCIA process, you come in as a group together. You go through the process together and come in together. But you can go through one on one instruction with your priest . . he is the one who assess your readiness, not some set proscribed class . .

In our class, one was baptized a couple of months after RCIA started. She was very ill, and it was not certain she would still be alive at Easter . . . so she was baptized . .

She is still very ill (severe debilitating arthritis, restricted to a wheelchair and bed, but still very much alive!


Peace in Him!

Peace in Him!

 

[twosid]

I am curious because you have a Christian icon if you have been baptised already? I spent a couple of hours with a priest today and he said that were I to become Catholic I would not be baptised again because I already had been baptised. He also relayed an experience where at the Jordan river some people wanted to be baptised (who already were) and he would not do it. I didn't ask him to expound on the reasons because thats a long way off for me but I would be interested to know why you wouldn't be baptised into the Church you were joining when the meanings are totally different and why some priests would baptise again and some wouldn't. I know that were I to become a Catholic I would be bothered by the fact that I came to it because I discovered what I believed to be untrue but then my baptism was okey dokey with the wrong associated meaning and for totally different reasons... I'm too analytical for my own good I guess but that would really be an issue I think at that point for me.

 

[MParedon]

As I understand it there is only ONE Baptism. The Church won't baptise again if you've been baptised in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit with water. Some non-Catholics aren't baptized this way. If a person doesn't know how they were baptized then they are 'conditionally' baptized something like...'If you have not yet been baptized in the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, I baptise you.' (don't quote me on it I'm not too sure about the wording.

As for believing different things under your baptism in a different faith, it would be good to understand that we are all continually learning about the Church, we are all under misconceptions to a degree, but the Grace of God is still there.

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

The method of preparing for baptisim and confirmation, may vary in diffrent countires/cultures.

 

[Glynnw]

I'm Baptist, and will convert next Easter. The deacon that will be giving the RCIA classes told me that the church reconizes most baptisim, except the off the wall religions, so I will not be baptised again. I felt like I was baptised at church during the Easter services, not sure which one since we went to all of them, when the Priest went down the asile sprinkling holy water on everyone. That was a great feeling. Anyway, looking forward to my first classes in RCIA, as I'm sure everyone else waitng for them to start is also. I feel strong in my desire to do this, yet some times I get this strange feeling of WHAT I'm I doing. Do any of you have the same feeling?...... In Christ, GlynnW

 

[Isaiah 53]

I'm Baptist, and will convert next Easter. The deacon that will be giving the RCIA classes told me that the church reconizes most baptisim, except the off the wall religions, so I will not be baptised again. I felt like I was baptised at church during the Easter services, not sure which one since we went to all of them, when the Priest went down the asile sprinkling holy water on everyone. That was a great feeling. Anyway, looking forward to my first classes in RCIA, as I'm sure everyone else waitng for them to start is also. I feel strong in my desire to do this, yet some times I get this strange feeling of WHAT I'm I doing. Do any of you have the same feeling?...... In Christ, GlynnW

Hello!!!

I am in the same boat, Southern Baptist! I cannot wait for the classes to begin, I have spoken with my Priest and will soon be placed in some type of Ministry within the Parrish (service is such a big part my life) I feel as if I cannot get enough!

God Bless you!

Feel free to PM me anytime I would be happy to discuss things with you!

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

 

[twosid]

The priest I spoke with where I attended Mass said that he would not baptise me should I become Catholic. Not that he might or that he might do an alternative type for folks who already have been etc. He would NOT do it. So then were I to become Catholic then I'd have a doubt right off the bat. Were my previous two ok? Well the first one the guy said "buried with Christ in baptism....raised to walk in newness of life" and the second time I don't know what he said. So then I either don't get baptised and doubt they were ok or go find a priest who will do it and then wonder if that one was ok because maybe he wasn't supposed to do it. I work myself into a corner a lot. Trying to figure this stuff out can be discouraging at times.

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

The priest I spoke with where I attended Mass said that he would not baptise me should I become Catholic. Not that he might or that he might do an alternative type for folks who already have been etc. He would NOT do it. So then were I to become Catholic then I'd have a doubt right off the bat. Were my previous two ok? Well the first one the guy said "buried with Christ in baptism....raised to walk in newness of life" and the second time I don't know what he said. So then I either don't get baptised and doubt they were ok or go find a priest who will do it and then wonder if that one was ok because maybe he wasn't supposed to do it. I work myself into a corner a lot. Trying to figure this stuff out can be discouraging at times.

Ask the priest for an guidnce. He is suppose to take care of these concerns per the law of the church. But if you are silent he may not realise you have doubts.

 

[Benedicta00]

The priest I spoke with where I attended Mass said that he would not baptise me should I become Catholic. Not that he might or that he might do an alternative type for folks who already have been etc. He would NOT do it. So then were I to become Catholic then I'd have a doubt right off the bat. Were my previous two ok? Well the first one the guy said "buried with Christ in baptism....raised to walk in newness of life" and the second time I don't know what he said. So then I either don't get baptised and doubt they were ok or go find a priest who will do it and then wonder if that one was ok because maybe he wasn't supposed to do it. I work myself into a corner a lot. Trying to figure this stuff out can be discouraging at times.

You have to let your priest know this. You can be baptized conditionally in case there is reason to doubt you weren’t validly baptized before.

Generally the rule is as long as pastor intended to do what the Church does, it is valid. That would be for the remission of sins, in the name of the trinity and with water.

 

[thereselittleflower]

You know what is so neat here? Seeing all of you who will be coming in this next Easter, taking the same journey I and several others here just took . . you do not know how wonderful it is to see on this side of the process . . I am beginning to feel how those here felt about those of us who came in this year . . it is like WOW . . you get to DO this! I am anticipating many wonderful things for all of you . . you are on an incredible road of discovery!




Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

The priest I spoke with where I attended Mass said that he would not baptise me should I become Catholic. Not that he might or that he might do an alternative type for folks who already have been etc. He would NOT do it. So then were I to become Catholic then I'd have a doubt right off the bat. Were my previous two ok? Well the first one the guy said "buried with Christ in baptism....raised to walk in newness of life" and the second time I don't know what he said. So then I either don't get baptised and doubt they were ok or go find a priest who will do it and then wonder if that one was ok because maybe he wasn't supposed to do it. I work myself into a corner a lot. Trying to figure this stuff out can be discouraging at times.

Hi twosid . . first don't get discouraged . .

Can you get a hold of the other place you were baptized at, the second time and find out if they used the tirinitarian formula - then your mind will be at ease if they did . . and if they didn't, you can then go back to the priest . . You did not speak with the head priest there, did you?

If you were not baptized in the trinitarian formula, then you are to be baptized again . . because then neither of your previous baptisms were valid . .

If that is the case, and you are not making headway with your priest . . then call the Arch Diocese and ask to speak to the proper person there about your coming into the Church and the issue with your previous baptism . .

The first one was not valid given what you said above . .you need to find out about the second one if at all possible . . Can you do this?


At our parish, unless they were sure the first one was valid, you got baptized again . . and in case it was but they were not sure, it was conditional.

Sometimes, when you speak with a priest for the first time, you think you are really communicating, but there can be a world of difference between what you both are actually saying - you say one thing, he hears something else.. so don't be discouraged . . and don't feel you can't go above the priest you talked to, to get this clarified . .

I did about coming into the Church . . but on a slightly different issue. It is very helpful to put one's mind at rest . .

 

[twosid]

I understand. That would be a long way down the road in any case but my mind never stops... I was baptised twice in the same Church http://www.fbcw.org In the baptist Church when you are baptised you do so to "identify" with the death, burial, and ressurection of Jesus. It is clearly stated "most" of the time before baptism begins (there are usually many at once) that baptism does not in any way remit sin etc. that is only an identification...so in my mind according to Catholicism they would both be invalid even if the person said the right words. No...there isn't really any way to know what the 2'nd guy said....I could ask him but he might not get it right. What I also don't understand is how a baptism could have been valid for the remission of sin when I thought it was for a totally different purpose and the people performing it the same. It doesn't make sense that either would be valid. I don't see this as a big issue....I imagine that if the time comes God will work it out.

 

[Photini]

What I also don't understand is how a baptism could have been valid for the remission of sin when I thought it was for a totally different purpose and the people performing it the same. It doesn't make sense that either would be valid. I don't see this as a big issue....I imagine that if the time comes God will work it out.

You have exactly the same thoughts that I did. I was very firm in my resolve to be baptised even though I had been "baptised" previously in a non-denominational church. My previous baptism was by a single immersion, and as you said above, I understood it merely as a "symbol". That's what it was.

I was baptised into the EO CHurch last June. It was a tremendous weight off from my shoulders when I rose from the water after my third dunking...everything was so clear.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I understand. That would be a long way down the road in any case but my mind never stops... I was baptised twice in the same Church http://www.fbcw.org In the baptist Church when you are baptised you do so to "identify" with the death, burial, and ressurection of Jesus. It is clearly stated "most" of the time before baptism begins (there are usually many at once) that baptism does not in any way remit sin etc. that is only an identification...so in my mind according to Catholicism they would both be invalid even if the person said the right words. No...there isn't really any way to know what the 2'nd guy said....I could ask him but he might not get it right. What I also don't understand is how a baptism could have been valid for the remission of sin when I thought it was for a totally different purpose and the people performing it the same. It doesn't make sense that either would be valid. I don't see this as a big issue....I imagine that if the time comes God will work it out.

Twosid

The first question is, were you trying to do what you undertood Christ wanted you to do? Whether you understood correctly what that was or not, is not really the issue . . the issue is intent . . were you intending to do what you understood Christ wanted you to?

Even if someone is completely unaware of the sacramental nature of their baptism, it is still sacramentally valid . . for an infant cannot understand, but they have still received all the Grace of Baptism.

Intent is looked at in the negative . . if there was an absence of intent for it to NOT be sacramentally valid . .meaning you did not intend that Baptism be sham . . that you had no intention of following Christ, that you were making mockery out of it, then there is an absence of wrong intent to invalidate baptism . .

Marriage is a Sacrament conferred by baptized believers on each other . . and even if the two people have no understanding that marriage is sacramental, that does not undo the sacramental nature of marriage. . on would have to have the intent that it NOT be sacramental . . without that negative intent, the marriage is sacramentally valid and the sacrament is conferred on each other even if inaware of it . .

So, even though you were taught and believed your baptism was merely a symbol and it did nothing to wash away sins . . still, you did this intending to be obedient to what you understood your Lord required of you . . there was an absence of intent to be disobedient to what you understood to be the truth.


The question remains as to whether it was done using the Triune formula . . usually, my understanding is that even if the right intent was there, if the Triune formula wasn't used, you weren't baptized sacramentally . . And this is what needs to be determined . .

Did you receive the Sacrament of Baptism?


Peace in Him!

 

[twosid]

The question remains as to whether it was done using the Triune formula . . usually, my understanding is that even if the right intent was there, if the Triune formula wasn't used, you weren't baptized sacramentally . . And this is what needs to be determined . .

Did you receive the Sacrament of Baptism?

I'm guessing you are asking if I was baptised in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit with an immersion for each right? I was immersed once at each baptism and I don't recall what was said on the second one. Some people do say the above at that Church but I don't think the guy did that baptised me. In any case there was only one immersion. Does that answer your question? I'm going to e-mail them and ask them if they say the same thing every time etc. but since I don't remember it...the response really won't matter but it might be interesting.

 

[thereselittleflower]

I'm guessing you are asking if I was baptised in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit with an immersion for each right? I was immersed once at each baptism and I don't recall what was said on the second one. Some people do say the above at that Church but I don't think the guy did that baptised me. In any case there was only one immersion. Does that answer your question? I'm going to e-mail them and ask them if they say the same thing every time etc. but since I don't remember it...the response really won't matter but it might be interesting.

The immersion isn't so much an issue . . I would be more interested in what they batpized you in the name of . .

It can't hurt to ask . . do they keep records of who baptized you? Maybe you can find out who did it and find out how that person did it when you were baptized . . It will be interesting what you find

By the way, I think I have some familiarity with that Church . .for some reason, it seems to me, I was discussing something that was pulled off that site . . so I spent some time there . .there is a quirky thing with one of the pages and it happened again when I went there today. LOL

Peace in Him!



Peace in Him!

 

[Skripper]

The priest I spoke with where I attended Mass said that he would not baptise me should I become Catholic. Not that he might or that he might do an alternative type for folks who already have been etc. He would NOT do it. So then were I to become Catholic then I'd have a doubt right off the bat. Were my previous two ok? Well the first one the guy said "buried with Christ in baptism....raised to walk in newness of life" and the second time I don't know what he said. So then I either don't get baptised and doubt they were ok or go find a priest who will do it and then wonder if that one was ok because maybe he wasn't supposed to do it. I work myself into a corner a lot. Trying to figure this stuff out can be discouraging at times.

Neal,

Explain your concerns to the priest and ask him about the possibility of a "conditional baptism". Someone else will have to explain what that is, if you are unfamiliar with it, as I'm late for work. *Skripper rushes out door*

 

[marciadietrich]

twosid,

I was raised as a Christian, but wasn't baptized until I converted in 2003. In the church I attended baptism was not required (Assemblies of God), only a sign of obedience, and I was able to take communion in that church without being baptized. I passed when I was a teenager and was never asked again about it as I attended various churches over adulthood. At some point I took communion at a Lutheran church, later found out that they require baptism (and probably assent to the Lutheran beliefs). So I stopped taking communion for many years until I converted.

So it may well be the opening poster has not been baptized. For those already baptized it has to be both the proper formula (In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) and it has to be intended to be a Trinitarian baptism - as opposed to say a Mormon baptism with the same words but they are TRI-theistic. And presuming water was used, the proper matter, which usually isn't an issue.

Marcia