Question about the rapture

[MacFall]

No Tom, those verses are talking about what happens after the Great Tribulation just before the Judgments and God begins eternity. Although I realize those in the rapture cult use those and other non-specific verses to try to prove their rapture theory.

This is an interpretation that has been carried by the Church historically.

The Rapture theology interpretation has only recently been read into scripture.

If you (using "you" rhetorically) think your translation is more correct than the one accepted from the early Church until the 1800s, then you had better have a darn good reason for saying so.

 

[Waiting for Jesus]

I have been studying "The Rapture" for nearly 35 years, and have read a lot of books and studying the scriptures regarding Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib and Post-Trib. I came to the conclusion that there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture. I have a hard time believing the Lord would make his people go through the Tribulation. I respect all of the other opinions that have been given.

 

[MacFall]

I have a hard time believing the Lord would make his people go through the Tribulation.

Then you do not believe the words of Jesus Christ, who said that we would always suffer for his sake.

This is one of the things that I dislike least about pre-Trib theology: the idea that for some reason we ought to be afraid of earthly suffering. Because that's missing the whole point. We should NOT be afraid. No matter how bad the suffering gets, no matter how many thousands fall at our sides, even if our own deaths are certain - we will walk on this earth as witnesses of God's grace, having JOY in tribulation.

Except, pre-tribbers don't really believe that, do they? According to them, God's grace will be suspended while he vents his spleen at the unbelievers in a divine temper tantrum. And that is THE WORST THING about pre-trib theology. Jesus takes his followers and stands aside while his daddy acts out a caricature of the wrathful Old Testament God.

 

[Waiting for Jesus]

I believe Jesus, I respect your opinion, I still believe in a pre-trib Rapture.

If the Rapture is post-trib, I am ready to suffer and die for Jesus.

 

[Sunbelt]

Did Jesus intend to leave the true meaning of His scriptures to the interpretations of men?

 

[nChrist]

The vast majority of people who study Bible Prophecy believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture and they aren't in any kind of cult because of their beliefs. I realize there are some with other views, but I don't plan to debate it. Many books have been written on this subject, and each person is welcome to believe what they want to. Trying to label someone a cult because they believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture is wrong and uncalled for. I could just as easily label those who believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture a cult, but I won't stoop that low and don't believe it. I'll just say that they are welcome to their views and our differences should not hinder fellowship.

The Tribulation Period was determined against Israel - NOT the Church which is the Body of Christ. The CHURCH was not formed for wrath, rather for Salvation (Escape). Those who believe that the CHURCH and Israel are the same or that the CHURCH replaced Israel are in serious error. The two are separate entities, and God made Promises to each entity that will be fulfilled most perfectly at God's Appointed time. God certainly isn't through with Israel. It's important to note that Daniel knew nothing about the CHURCH which is the Body of Christ because the CHURCH was still a MYSTERY.

Regarding the 1800s invention of the Rapture, that's silly since the Apostle Paul clearly taught it about 2,000 years ago. Read the Scripture again and pay particular attention to the Scripture in Bold:

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 KJV 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 KJV 9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 KJV 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

I have no problem with others having different views, but I do have a problem with those who call names for those having a different view. I think that's very childish. Yes, I strongly believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, but I have no problem with folks believing in a Mid, Pre-Wrath, or Post-Tribulation Rapture. I certainly won't be calling them names or hinting that they're in a cult because of their beliefs.

 

[MacFall]

The vast majority of people who study Bible Prophecy believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

Not even close. Almost nobody outside of English speaking countries does, and even within those countries, almost nobody outside of Evangelical circles with strong fundamentalist and Pietist influences. Mainline Protestants, reformed theology churches, classical Wesleyans and Baptists, and Orthodox churches do not - and those comprise the vast majority of Christian scholarship altogether.

Yours is a fringe belief, my friend, based on a new interpretation of scripture. That puts the burden of proof on you.

 

[revrobor]

Back to post #84 Tom.

 

[rockytopva]

At least the pre-trib folks are posting scripture.

 

[MacFall]

I could post the same scripture to back up my point. What is at issue here is interpretation. You are using a newly-invented interpretation, whilst we are using interpretations that predate yours by about as long as Christianity has existed.

 

[revrobor]

Amen MacFall! They can post all the scripture they want but as long as the keep sticking it in the wrong place in history it's still wrong.

 

[texaskimmy]

My personal opinion is that true believers and the dead in Christ will be raptured/resurrected when Jesus/Yeshua returns at the LAST TRUMP. Post tribulation. I do believe a small group of people will be spared the suffering of the tribulation (Philadelphia), but who those are and how many, and how they will be spared, I think scripture is not clear on. We also see 144,000 Israelites will be sealed (possibly same as Philadelphia?), but who/how that is ...again not clear.

I've studied all the scripture and I don't believe its a subject any christian can be dogmatic about.

 

[carole2u]

I mean this in the most respectful way - ALL is not revealed to men in Scripture but enough for us to know what God wants from us now. This arguing opinions on when the rapture takes place is moot and as long as you are where you need to be with God, what does it matter?
Many study the Scriptures and many have different opinions but when it comes to the Word OUR opinions don't factor and NO ONE can say honestly that they know for sure on this subject.

 

[Sojourner1]

I have been studying "The Rapture" for nearly 35 years, and have read a lot of books and studying the scriptures regarding Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib and Post-Trib. I came to the conclusion that there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture. I have a hard time believing the Lord would make his people go through the Tribulation. I respect all of the other opinions that have been given.

This describes me as well, although I've only been studying for about 20 years so you're 15 years ahead of me .

 

[lismore]

IMO the most important thing about the coming of the Lord is to be ready for it and to be eager for it.

2 Timothy 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.