Question about the New Testament

[ScientArtist]

What people should understand is that the Bible and the Gospels have been under attack ever since Christianity had an impact on the world. Whoever came up with this theory has absolutely no proof, but there is plenty of evidence to confirm that some of the New Testament books were written within 20 years of the resurrection.

Please, present your much prized evidence from a non-Christian source. Most estimates place the writing of the first Gospel, Mark, at 70, emphasis on "estimates". It is known that Jerusalem had been destroyed by the publication of Mark's Gospel.

I'd just like to go on record by saying that Mark was the first Gospel written in full and that Matthew and Luke both borrowed (I should say "copied," given that entire passages are the same, even though they ostensibly worked separately) a lot from Mark.

 

[alisonm328]

ScientArtist i think you should ask yourself and really try to find the answer sincerely, as to why you feel the need to actually go looking for and seek out different ways you can cast doubt on God/Jesus. What I've honestly noticed about people like you (who look for ways to make christians doubt jesus) is they are actually seeking God themselves in a way and don't realize it. Ive met so many people who used to do this before they ended up accepting Jesus into their own lives!

You will find people everywhere that don't believe in Jesus and truly persecute him and mock whoever believes in him. He's always the subject of debate and soo many religions have something to say about him! Ive even read stories about aliens claiming they are Jesus! Lol There's also a belief in Jesus in many eastern religions but of course they deny he is the son of God. The whole world seems to be obsessed with Jesus in some way or another!

Look at the Muslim religion which has about the same number of believers as christianity now.... they basically took the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for themselves, (twisting all the stories) but then turn it around and deny His own son! Their loudest claim of all is that Jesus is NOT the son of God!

Sadly though for people who persecute Jesus, he's actually the ONLY way to our creator. Isaiah 55:6 "Seek the Lord while he can still be found"

 

[ToBeLoved]

Please, present your much prized evidence from a non-Christian source. Most estimates place the writing of the first Gospel, Mark, at 70, emphasis on "estimates". It is known that Jerusalem had been destroyed by the publication of Mark's Gospel.

I'd just like to go on record by saying that Mark was the first Gospel written in full and that Matthew and Luke both borrowed (I should say "copied," given that entire passages are the same, even though they ostensibly worked separately) a lot from Mark.

Interesting. So in your opinion the fact that the gospels tell the same story is that they 'borrowed' or 'copied' from each other.

I would assume that you have some good knowledge to share with us to convince us that there is a reason to believe that is true? Please share.

 

[alisonm328]

Please, present your much prized evidence from a non-Christian source. Most estimates place the writing of the first Gospel, Mark, at 70, emphasis on "estimates". It is known that Jerusalem had been destroyed by the publication of Mark's Gospel.

I'd just like to go on record by saying that Mark was the first Gospel written in full and that Matthew and Luke both borrowed (I should say "copied," given that entire passages are the same, even though they ostensibly worked separately) a lot from Mark.

I was just wondering... since you don't believe in a God/creator, do you also look for evidence to prove other religions false, or is Christianity the only one you look for this evidence on?

I know what you can do if you want to prove that our beliefs are false. Try this out and give it your best effort. Try seeking Jesus yourself, truthfully. I DARE YOU! ; ) Then if you find nothing, you can tell us we're all wrong.

Any person who honestly doesn't believe in Jesus, would try this in a heartbeat just to be able to say i told you so. So go ahead and try it out.

Or are you afraid of what you might find? ( ;

 

[ToBeLoved]

Please, present your much prized evidence from a non-Christian source. Most estimates place the writing of the first Gospel, Mark, at 70, emphasis on "estimates". It is known that Jerusalem had been destroyed by the publication of Mark's Gospel.

I'd just like to go on record by saying that Mark was the first Gospel written in full and that Matthew and Luke both borrowed (I should say "copied," given that entire passages are the same, even though they ostensibly worked separately) a lot from Mark.

Well ScientArtist, there are a lot of other, non-Biblical sources that support the Bible.

When the Israelite's were led out of Egypt by Moses, that is also documented in Egyptian hyrogliphs.

The Roman historian Josephus wrote history about Jesus life and the apostles also.

The flood of Noah is in the Sumerian history.

So, I'd say you don't know as much as you think you may know, unless you have something enlightening to share.

 

[Cuddles333]

The German Bible scholar Rudolph Pesch has discovered from words and phrases used in the book of Mark, that it had to be written no later than 37 A.D. The evidence for any later usage of these words and phrases beyond that year cannot be found.

 

[hedrick]

A couple of articles I just looked at say that Pesch thought one of the sources of Mark (for the passion narrative) was before 37, not Mark itself.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What people should understand is that the Bible and the Gospels have been under attack ever since Christianity had an impact on the world. Whoever came up with this theory has absolutely no proof, but there is plenty of evidence to confirm that some of the New Testament books were written within 20 years of the resurrection.

This is a link to the timelines of the New Testament books being written.

But note that Jesus was crucified in 33 AD. So start counting years after Jesus crucifiction.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/resources/guide-to-bible-study/order-books-new-testament.html

James - 50 A.D.
First Thessalonians - 52-53.
Second Thessalonians - 52-53.
Galatians - 55.
First Corinthians - 57.
Second Corinthians - 57.
Romans - 57-58.
Philippians - 62-63.
Colossians - 62-63.
Philemon - 62-63.
Ephesians - 62-63.
Luke - 63.
Acts - 64.
First Timothy - 65.
Titus - 65.
Second Timothy - 66.
Mark - 66.
Matthew - 67.
Hebrews - 67.
First Peter - 67-68.
Second Peter - 68.
Jude - 68.
Apocalypse - 68.
John - c. 85.
Epistles of John - 90-95.

 

[hedrick]

Most of those dates are earlier than I would consider plausible.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

So, recently, I read that the gospels were not written until over 70 years after the reported death of Jesus. There are some questions I have.

The average life expectancy of a man at 0 BCE/CE was 30 years. According to my timeline, an eyewitness (which are proven to be unreliable) of at least 108 years would have to remember, by heart, exactly, all the events of Jesus' life four times. The main historian that some people cite actually lived during and recorded the Trojan War, which, according to the Iliad, ended in 75 BCE. He would have been 138 years old at Jesus' death, when a man's average life expectancy was 28. So how can we prove through literature that Jesus really did die on a cross in Golgatha? I do not aim to debunk Christianity. It is an honest question.

The Gospel of Mark was written circa ad 55 and some scholars put it even earlier. Jesus was crucified in ad 33 so most of the eye witnesses and ALL Of the Gospel Writers were still alive at the time of ad 55 . We also have non Christian Historians from that time era such as Josephus and Tacitus who wrote about Jesus in the same century . You should know that the NT is 'THE' highest ranked literary work considering the manuscripts that have been found closest to the actual event (of Jesus) .... other literary works fall into line at hundreds of years after the event such as the writings of Plato and Aristotle. Also, the NT has the most manuscript evidence in quantity making comparisons easier to determine when an event actually occurred, than any other literary work of antiquity. The NT in greek manuscripts are approx., 5466 in quantity with a total quantity including other languages at 25,000 . The next closest is the Illiad by Homer at 643 .

If we cant trust the NT and the Gospel accounts, then we have to throw out all of ancient history for the NT is far superior to other ancient literary works. If you want to explore these facts further , then get the book called 'I Don't have enough faith to be an atheist' on www.amazon.com because it gets into what ive shared plus other supportive evidences. Dave.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Most of those dates are earlier than I would consider plausible.

What timeline do you believe then?

Do you have a URL?

 

[hedrick]

The dates that you posted are those sometimes used by conservative Christians. The OP should know that mainline, most (I think) current Catholic scholars, and non-Christians typically use later dates. For typical lists see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible#Table_IV:_New_Testament

and

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com

 

[ToBeLoved]

A couple of articles I just looked at say that Pesch thought one of the sources of Mark (for the passion narrative) was before 37, not Mark itself.

I'm not sure that you do not search for the odd thing;

What was your criteria when you searched?

 

[hedrick]

Rudolph Pesch Mark. I found several references to his work, all quoting him as saying that Mark took the passion narrative from a source written before 37 AD.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Most of those dates are earlier than I would consider plausible.

And why is that and what are your sources and why do you believe that way?

That was a very open ended comment with no meat.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Rudolph Pesch Mark. I found several references to his work, all quoting him as saying that Mark took the passion narrative from a source written before 37 AD.

Ummmm But Jesus died in 33 AD, so 37 AD was four years after the crucifiction.

So what is your point?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Is this a serious conversation or just opinions?

Because I do not see much evidence here. One sentence. Two sentences do not make a point.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Jesus was crucified between 30 - 33 AD (At approximately 30 yo). His apostles were likely peers, and possibly younger. Two of the Gospel writers, (Mark and Luke), were disciples of apostles. John Mark, a young disciple of Peter, and Luke, a disciple of St. Paul of Tarsus, and Our Lady. John didn't write his Gospel, until he had read the other three, and likely while imprisoned at Patmos. Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, and none of the Gospels, (not even the last one, written by John) mention it, (other than predicting it). So it is likely that all Gospels were written and being circulated before 69 AD. Mark's and Matthew's Gospels could be as early as the 40's. In any event, none were 70 years after his death. The Gospels were setting in writing the oral traditions already well known and practiced by the Christian communities in 1st century Judea and Rome.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus was crucified between 30 - 33 AD (At approximately 30 yo). His apostles were likely peers, and possibly younger. Two of the Gospel writers, (Mark and Luke), were disciples of apostles. John Mark, a young disciple of Peter, and Luke, a disciple of St. Paul of Tarsus, and Our Lady. John didn't write his Gospel, until he had read the other three, and likely while imprisoned at Patmos. Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, and none of the Gospels, (not even the last one, written by John) mention it, (other than predicting it). So it is likely that all Gospels were written and being circulated before 69 AD. Mark's and Matthew's Gospels could be as early as the 40's. In any event, none were 70 years after his death. The Gospels were setting in writing the oral traditions already well known and practiced by the Christian communities in 1st century Judea and Rome.

Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist at 30 yo and began His ministry after baptism, in 30 AD

Jesus was 33 yo when He was crucified in 33 AD.

 

[hedrick]

Rudolph Pesch Mark. I found several references to his work, all quoting him as saying that Mark took the passion narrative from a source written before 37 AD.

Ummmm But Jesus died in 33 AD, so 37 AD was four years after the crucifiction.

So what is your point?

You asked for my search string. I gave it to you. "Rudolph Pesch Mark." This wasn't really a response to you anyway, but to Cuddles, who had quoted Pesch as saying that Mark was written before 37. My point is that I believe that was a confusion. I believe Pesch said that one of the sources used by Mark, not Mark itself, was written before 37. Mark is commonly thought to have been written about when Peter died. That's almost certainly later than 37.