OHHHH I get it
so unless our human understanding and out human sense can verify what God said, he must have meant different than what he said. I get it . . . 
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Question about the Lord's Supper
- Thread starter pax
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OHHHH I get it
so unless our human understanding and out human sense can verify what God said, he must have meant different than what he said. I get it . . . Andrew: you're a smart guy - what did Christ say when he offered the bread and wine to his Apostles? He said this______ my body this _____ my blood. I'll let you fill in the blanks
I'll let you fill in the blanks
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Br. Max,
Thanks. It's the Lutherens communion. I knew that, I did not know that is what it was called.
They believe he is sacramentally present.
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chelsi: yes they believe that Christ is real in the Eucharist - they merely understand HOW He is truly present in a different way.
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Rafael
Only time enough for love
1 Corinthians 11:23 ¶ For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lords death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lords body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lords death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lords body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
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yes do what in remberance of him?
Take the bread confess that it IS his body and the cup IS the cup of His blood.
DO that in remeberance of him. every time the Eucharist is celebrated, that is EXACTLY what is done.
Take the bread confess that it IS his body and the cup IS the cup of His blood.
DO that in remeberance of him.
every time the Eucharist is celebrated, that is EXACTLY what is done.
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This is the way I see it (and also why i didn't vote)
I believe Christ commanded us to do the communion (common union between us a Christ) or eucharist, however you want to call it. I do it first of all cus Jesus commanded it. I also believe that if I clumsily drop that piece of bred, I am not dropping Jesus. Now, when I take that bread and swallow it and the wine too, I believe that bread and wine are absorbed by my body, it becomes my body in the form of amminoacids, proteins, carbohydrates, etc... so in the same manner, Christ spiritually becomes one with me like the bread did with my body.
What is that called?
Also I believe you don't need a priest to do so, I think God called us all into priesthood (1 Peter 2:9) and therefore that just becomes a religious issue and not a biblical one.
Also I need some shoes and I gave away my blessings very generously knowing not that they came out of my wallet (silly me, otherwise inflation will be off the hook!)
God bless you, share Christ!
028
I believe Christ commanded us to do the communion (common union between us a Christ) or eucharist, however you want to call it. I do it first of all cus Jesus commanded it. I also believe that if I clumsily drop that piece of bred, I am not dropping Jesus. Now, when I take that bread and swallow it and the wine too, I believe that bread and wine are absorbed by my body, it becomes my body in the form of amminoacids, proteins, carbohydrates, etc... so in the same manner, Christ spiritually becomes one with me like the bread did with my body.
What is that called?
Also I believe you don't need a priest to do so, I think God called us all into priesthood (1 Peter 2:9) and therefore that just becomes a religious issue and not a biblical one.
Also I need some shoes and I gave away my blessings very generously knowing not that they came out of my wallet (silly me, otherwise inflation will be off the hook!)
God bless you, share Christ!
028
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remeber please that in the OT there are 2 priesthoods. Why would it be different in the new?
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fragmentsofdreams
Critical loyalist
I think the simplest answer is that Protestants do not intend for it to happen, so it doesn't.
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andrew: we read that already. Is there some one specific you see as being in violation of that rule?
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I am late in replying since I just arrived to to this forum. It seems that Christ used symbolism all thoughout the new testament. He used ananlogies, metaphors and so on to relate to His followers. I should think no differently when it comes to the Lord's supper. It would be consistent in the way He choose to teach.
For example, a wedding ring represents marriage, but it doesn't become marriage itself. It is a representation. Just the same as our baptism. We aren't plunged into death. The water becomes a mere representation.
Perhaps this is one we can never be sure about, but by looking at Jesus' pattern or method of teachings, senarios, one may conclude that He probably was using symbolism.
My 2 cents,
Lacey
For example, a wedding ring represents marriage, but it doesn't become marriage itself. It is a representation. Just the same as our baptism. We aren't plunged into death. The water becomes a mere representation.
Perhaps this is one we can never be sure about, but by looking at Jesus' pattern or method of teachings, senarios, one may conclude that He probably was using symbolism.
My 2 cents,
Lacey
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Lacy: there are ways to tell when the Lord is speaking in metaphor and when the Lord is speaking out a TRUTH.
Any time he speaks a truth he prefaces that remark with VERILY VERILY or TRULY TRULY (depending upon your translation)He is speaking a literal truth. Literal truth is not the same as a carnal truth. Jesus said: I AM THE DOOR - does this mean his is laterally a door? Yes. A door is a portal through which one entered and egresses and a way of baring such a portal. Does this mean that he has hinges and a knob in the middle of him off to the left which can be turned? NAH!! To think that would be silly.
In John 6:53 the Lord states VERILY VERILY except you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you. Does he mean this literally? We can tell from the reastion of the people that - YES he did. Many of His followers departed because of this teaching. They believed that to LITERALLY eat the body, drink the blood of Jesus Christ was to carnally do so. Did he mean it also carnally? No. Scripture shows us what that he revealed what he meant. He held aloft bread and confessed over it - THIS IS MY BODY and held aloft a cup and confessed - THIS IS MY BLOOD. Did he mean it literally? Yes. Did he mean it carnally? No.
I ask those who believe that Christ meant the Eucharist to only be symbolic, did he often use props when he taught? Is it recorded in Scripture that when he taught on the candle and the bushel that he had a candle and a bushel at hand? I can think of not instance in Scripture when in the Lord used a prop in hand to teach a truth unless what was in hand was the truth he taught about - ie the Eucharist.
Any time he speaks a truth he prefaces that remark with VERILY VERILY or TRULY TRULY (depending upon your translation)He is speaking a literal truth. Literal truth is not the same as a carnal truth. Jesus said: I AM THE DOOR - does this mean his is laterally a door? Yes. A door is a portal through which one entered and egresses and a way of baring such a portal. Does this mean that he has hinges and a knob in the middle of him off to the left which can be turned? NAH!! To think that would be silly.
In John 6:53 the Lord states VERILY VERILY except you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you. Does he mean this literally? We can tell from the reastion of the people that - YES he did. Many of His followers departed because of this teaching. They believed that to LITERALLY eat the body, drink the blood of Jesus Christ was to carnally do so. Did he mean it also carnally? No. Scripture shows us what that he revealed what he meant. He held aloft bread and confessed over it - THIS IS MY BODY and held aloft a cup and confessed - THIS IS MY BLOOD. Did he mean it literally? Yes. Did he mean it carnally? No.
I ask those who believe that Christ meant the Eucharist to only be symbolic, did he often use props when he taught? Is it recorded in Scripture that when he taught on the candle and the bushel that he had a candle and a bushel at hand? I can think of not instance in Scripture when in the Lord used a prop in hand to teach a truth unless what was in hand was the truth he taught about - ie the Eucharist.
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Bro. Max-
I am unclear on your stance, mostly because I am not understanding what you mean by literally and carnally. Thanks
-Lacey
I am unclear on your stance, mostly because I am not understanding what you mean by literally and carnally. Thanks
-Lacey
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According to "The Bible Knowledge Commentary New Testament" the greek word used for "is" when Jesus says 'This is my body' means "represents". In fact the very concept of drinking blood would have been abhorrent to Jews because of Mosaic law, yet it was through the shedding of blood in the sacrifices that sins were atone for.
The doctrine of transubstantiation seems to have developed over time, and is first discussed at the Synod of Rome in 1079. I doubt very seriously that the early church believed that they were eating of the true flesh and blood when they took communion.
-Lacey
The doctrine of transubstantiation seems to have developed over time, and is first discussed at the Synod of Rome in 1079. I doubt very seriously that the early church believed that they were eating of the true flesh and blood when they took communion.
-Lacey
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Carnally meaning as relates to our physical carnal senses.
Laterally meaning as in an ACTUAL and real way.
Lacey: of course a Calvinistic commentary will present it as a figurative word since that would support the position that it is a figurative experience. OF COURSE the Jews were disgusted by the notion of drinking the blood of Christ - the EXACT reason why the walked away from Christ as recorded in John 6. DO you doubt that Christ being God would not know their misunderstanding? If they had misunderstood what He had said, do you not think He would have done every other time they misunderstood Him and corrected their error? But He didnt say anything to that affect.
I suggest that maybe you could look up John 6:53 yourself in the original Greek and see what is meant by each word. There is absolutely NO figurative meaning to be had in any of the words. They are quite literal.
Personally I care not if you accept transubstantiation, consubstantiation or ANY other way of explaining what the church has always believed - that Jesus Christ is both REAL and present in the Eucharist. Im not a RC to say that you have to believe in this way of understanding how Christ is real in the Eucharist - I dont think it matters HOW you understand that Jesus Christ is real and present in the Eucharist only that you DO
As far as the Early church on the Eucharist - I offer the following:
Council of Ephesus
"We will necessarily add this also. Proclaiming the death, according to the flesh, of the only-begotten Son of God, that is Jesus Christ, confessing his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into heaven, we offer the unbloody sacrifice in the churches, and so go on to the mystical thanksgivings, and are sanctified, having received his holy flesh and the precious blood of Christ the Savior of us all. And not as common flesh do we receive it; God forbid: nor as of a man sanctified and associated with the Word according to the unity of worth, or as having a divine indwelling, but as truly the life-giving and very flesh of the Word himself. For he is the life according to his nature as God, and when he became united to his flesh, he made it also to be life-giving" (Session 1, Letter of Cyril to Nestorius [A.D. 431]).
Cyril of Jerusalem -
"The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ" (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
"Having learn these things, and been fully assured that the seeming bread is not bread, though sensible to taste, but the Body of Christ; and that the seeming wine is not wine, though the taste will have it so, but the Blood of Christ; and that of this David sung of old, saying, And bread strengtheneth man's heart, to make his face to shine with oil, 'strengthen thou thine heart,' by partaking thereof as spiritual, and "make the face of thy soul to shine." "(Catechetical Lectures,XXII:8(c.A.D. 350),in NPNF2,VII:352)
Hippolytus
"And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christs] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper [i.e., the Last Supper]" (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).
Ignatius of Antioch -
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. " (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).
Irenaeus of Lyons -
If the Lord were from other than the Father [and thus capable of performing miracles], how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33-32 [A.D. 189]).
Justin Martyr -
We call this food Eucharist . . . For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Origen -
Formerly there was baptism in an obscure way . . . now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: 'My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink' [John 6:56]" (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]).
As you can see - quoting from a variety of the early fathers that they most assuredly believed Jesus Christ to be real and present in the Eucharist.
Laterally meaning as in an ACTUAL and real way.
Lacey: of course a Calvinistic commentary will present it as a figurative word since that would support the position that it is a figurative experience. OF COURSE the Jews were disgusted by the notion of drinking the blood of Christ - the EXACT reason why the walked away from Christ as recorded in John 6. DO you doubt that Christ being God would not know their misunderstanding? If they had misunderstood what He had said, do you not think He would have done every other time they misunderstood Him and corrected their error? But He didnt say anything to that affect.
I suggest that maybe you could look up John 6:53 yourself in the original Greek and see what is meant by each word. There is absolutely NO figurative meaning to be had in any of the words. They are quite literal.
Personally I care not if you accept transubstantiation, consubstantiation or ANY other way of explaining what the church has always believed - that Jesus Christ is both REAL and present in the Eucharist.
Im not a RC to say that you have to believe in this way of understanding how Christ is real in the Eucharist - I dont think it matters HOW you understand that Jesus Christ is real and present in the Eucharist only that you DO As far as the Early church on the Eucharist - I offer the following:
Council of Ephesus
"We will necessarily add this also. Proclaiming the death, according to the flesh, of the only-begotten Son of God, that is Jesus Christ, confessing his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into heaven, we offer the unbloody sacrifice in the churches, and so go on to the mystical thanksgivings, and are sanctified, having received his holy flesh and the precious blood of Christ the Savior of us all. And not as common flesh do we receive it; God forbid: nor as of a man sanctified and associated with the Word according to the unity of worth, or as having a divine indwelling, but as truly the life-giving and very flesh of the Word himself. For he is the life according to his nature as God, and when he became united to his flesh, he made it also to be life-giving" (Session 1, Letter of Cyril to Nestorius [A.D. 431]).
Cyril of Jerusalem -
"The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ" (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
"Having learn these things, and been fully assured that the seeming bread is not bread, though sensible to taste, but the Body of Christ; and that the seeming wine is not wine, though the taste will have it so, but the Blood of Christ; and that of this David sung of old, saying, And bread strengtheneth man's heart, to make his face to shine with oil, 'strengthen thou thine heart,' by partaking thereof as spiritual, and "make the face of thy soul to shine." "(Catechetical Lectures,XXII:8(c.A.D. 350),in NPNF2,VII:352)
Hippolytus
"And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christs] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper [i.e., the Last Supper]" (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).
Ignatius of Antioch -
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. " (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).
Irenaeus of Lyons -
If the Lord were from other than the Father [and thus capable of performing miracles], how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33-32 [A.D. 189]).
Justin Martyr -
We call this food Eucharist . . . For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Origen -
Formerly there was baptism in an obscure way . . . now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: 'My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink' [John 6:56]" (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]).
As you can see - quoting from a variety of the early fathers that they most assuredly believed Jesus Christ to be real and present in the Eucharist.
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Max~
I don't want to sound debatable, but I'm just not understanding the reason of your interpretation when I examine at the biblical text. I spoke with a Palestinian chrsitian (has served as a missionary for many years) last nite who was raised speaking Arabic and also Greek and Hebrew. He, too, said the word "is" means "represent" as in the act of being a representative for something else. In my questioning I never assume the power of God to be to less than my understanding of Him. Thanks for helping me with this.
-Lacey
I don't want to sound debatable, but I'm just not understanding the reason of your interpretation when I examine at the biblical text. I spoke with a Palestinian chrsitian (has served as a missionary for many years) last nite who was raised speaking Arabic and also Greek and Hebrew. He, too, said the word "is" means "represent" as in the act of being a representative for something else. In my questioning I never assume the power of God to be to less than my understanding of Him. Thanks for helping me with this.
-Lacey
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Lacey: Is means to be equal in meaning or having the same connotation. IT can be used to mean a symbolic representation, but the context will prove the case.
Let us look at the various accounts of the Eucharist in Scripture.
Matt 26:
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mark 14:
22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Luke 22
17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
1 cor 11
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
John 6
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
NOW - in these texts I believe that Jesus made it clear that He did not mean for the Eucharist to be merely symbolic.
He says in John 6 that I his Body is meat indeed and his blood drink.
In 1 cor we are said top be GUILTY of His body and blood if we partake in an unworthy fashion.
In John 6 we are told that if we eat his body and drink his blood we HAVE eternal life.
In Matthew he insisted that we drink ALL of the cup - why? What difference would it make if all of the cup were not consumed if the contents of the cup were only symbolic?
The Scriptures make it clear that this "is" is not a symbolic is but a equating is. - this IS [equates] my body.
Let us look at the various accounts of the Eucharist in Scripture.
Matt 26:
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mark 14:
22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Luke 22
17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
1 cor 11
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
John 6
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
NOW - in these texts I believe that Jesus made it clear that He did not mean for the Eucharist to be merely symbolic.
He says in John 6 that I his Body is meat indeed and his blood drink.
In 1 cor we are said top be GUILTY of His body and blood if we partake in an unworthy fashion.
In John 6 we are told that if we eat his body and drink his blood we HAVE eternal life.
In Matthew he insisted that we drink ALL of the cup - why? What difference would it make if all of the cup were not consumed if the contents of the cup were only symbolic?
The Scriptures make it clear that this "is" is not a symbolic is but a equating is.
- this IS [equates] my body.
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