Question About The Lord's Prayer..

[breatheprayer]

In Matthew 6:13, it reads,
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

This may sound like a silly question, but would God lead us into temptation? If so, why? The idea that He would doesn't seem right to me, but if not, then why would we have to pray that way?
I know He allows us to be tempted, but lead us into it??

 

[tqpix]

Good question.

Unfortunately, I don't have an answer.

 

[9T6]

Matthew tells us of Jesus following his baptism that:

"Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil." Matt 4:1

If Jesus' faith and obedience were to be tested then I think it is appropriate that we are also tested in a like manner. It is the act of sin that provides the proof of sinfulness within us. Our faith is also tested by God's permission, as was that of Job in the OT, so that on the Day of Judgement there can be no doubt of our inherent guilt and our total reliance on God's grace for forgiveness.

I personally feel that this petition in the Lord's Prayer amounts to an acknowledgement of our personal incapacity to resist temptation as Jesus was able and a plea to be spared from the test and to saved from the consequences of succumbing to the devil. However, we know that we will not be spared the testing, and that only leaves us with God's mercy.

Even Jesus asked to be spared his task - but only if it were God's will to be spared:

"My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will,." Matt 26:39

In praying this petition we are showing God our wish to be sinfree according to his Will, but equally, by asking that we be spared the test, we are confessing that we will not pass it and need deliverance.

I would add that this is only intended as a personal view on this petition, I am sure there are many better ones

 

[WAB]

In Matthew 6:13, it reads,
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

This may sound like a silly question, but would God lead us into temptation? If so, why? The idea that He would doesn't seem right to me, but if not, then why would we have to pray that way?
I know He allows us to be tempted, but lead us into it??

Good question... and the answer lies in the fact that #1, This passage in Matthew is not "The Lord's Prayer" as it is so often described. Rather, Jesus was instructing His disciples how to pray (briefly) while the Laws of Moses were still in effect. The real Lord's Prayer is found in the gospel of John chapter 17.

To mention just a couple of things that changed with the coming in of the New Covenant and the new birth... "And forgive us our debts, As ( or in the same manner) we forgive our debtors." What happens if you die without forgiving your debtors? Does God then not forgive you?

"And do not lead us into temptation." The answer to this is found in James chapter one, verse 13... "Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone." Then verse 14 says: "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires ("lust" in the KJV) and enticed."

God does on occasion "test" us, but it does not include leading us into temptation as the scripture in James shows. We don't need any help in that regard, as stated in vs.14.

As with so many other things that changed with the coming in of the New Covenant (or Agreement) between God and mankind, we are forgiven on the basis of our being "in Christ" i.e. on the basis of our position, not our performance.

 

[breatheprayer]

Those are great insights...Thank you!

 

[AngCath]

In Matthew 6:13, it reads,
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

This may sound like a silly question, but would God lead us into temptation? If so, why? The idea that He would doesn't seem right to me, but if not, then why would we have to pray that way?
I know He allows us to be tempted, but lead us into it??

This comes from the old Jewish notion that ALL things, situations, events, etc. come from God. We can see this in the Old Testament like in Samuel when we are told God sent Saul an injurious spirit.

 

[revrobor]

In Matthew 6:13, it reads,
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

This may sound like a silly question, but would God lead us into temptation? If so, why? The idea that He would doesn't seem right to me, but if not, then why would we have to pray that way?
I know He allows us to be tempted, but lead us into it??

The problem is the translation you are using. The Contemporary English Version puts it this way: "...keep us from being tempted and protect us from evil.".

 

[PaladinValer]

We usually say it as "save us from the time of trial"

 

[9T6]

The problem is the translation you are using. The Contemporary English Version puts it this way: "...keep us from being tempted and protect us from evil.".

I think one can only argue that it is a matter of translation if one can prove that one translation is correct and another is incorrect. The fact that CEV says one thing and NIV and KJV say something else does not prove that CEV is the correct one. All it shows is that no single translation is totally perfect.

Since God did lead Jesus into temptation I see no reason to assume that he does not lead everyone in the same way. This does not mean that God himself is the temptor, it only means that God permits it by leaving the gate open - it is the devil that makes the grass look so green on the other side and it is we that decide to walk straight into it.

However, I am not sure that the real underlying issue here is really whether God leads us into temptation or not. The key thing to me is that regardless of this petition being endlessly repeated by Christians all over the world for some 2000 years, God has not responded by protecting us from evil at all. So why do we continue to pray it when it is clearly a non-starter? Why did Jesus tell us to pray it if God is not going to respond? And if God is not going to respond then it must mean that God sees temptation as a rightful thing (that does not mean that he also sees our succumbing to such temptation as justified).

Afterall, if God did prevent us from being tempted such that we did not (or rather could not) sin, what would that really prove about us? Would we not still be the same old sinful-by-nature humans? The fact that we would be prevented from sinning would not make us righteous inside, where it counts.

So if God allows us to face temptation in spite of our petition to save us from it, what exactly ARE we really asking for? I would be interested to hear your opinions

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Lead us not into temptation simply means lead us away from temptation, help us to avoid temptation, help us steer clear of temptation. We are to asking God to not do something he wants to do. We are asking him to keep us on the straight and narrow.

 

[9T6]

Lead us not into temptation simply means lead us away from temptation, help us to avoid temptation, help us steer clear of temptation. We are to asking God to not do something he wants to do. We are asking him to keep us on the straight and narrow.

Ok - so why doesn't he do so?

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Ok - so why doesn't he do so?

Free will

 

[chrismon]

Check out Stanely Hauerwas and William Willimons' "Lord Teach Us: The Lord's Prayer & the Christian Life"

Another good one is N.T. Wright's "The Lord and His Prayer"

 

[9T6]

Free will

I agree with you. That is why I am exploring this issue further.

If God does not protect us from temptation because of the need to allow us to exercise freewill, and we accept that need, why did Christ tell us to pray that God would not lead us into temptation? If God were to comply with our petition to be protected from temptation he would be removing our freewill - so why pray for it?

 

[9T6]

Check out Stanely Hauerwas and William Willimons' "Lord Teach Us: The Lord's Prayer & the Christian Life"

Another good one is N.T. Wright's "The Lord and His Prayer"

Thank you for these ideas. However, my interest and reason for being on this site is to discuss these issues with people here. I am far more interested in your own views than in those published elsewhere. What do YOU think about this?

 

[Naomi4Christ]

I agree with you. That is why I am exploring this issue further.

If God does not protect us from temptation because of the need to allow us to exercise freewill, and we accept that need, why did Christ tell us to pray that God would not lead us into temptation? If God were to comply with our petition to be protected from temptation he would be removing our freewill - so why pray for it?

I think we are asking God to encourage and edify us, not to remove temptation from our sights. We are still the ones that have to not yield to temptation, but we have God's help.

Prayer is the way we show that we have a relationship with God. We can talk to him about things, even if it is obvious and we said the much same things the day before.

The Lord's Prayer is a model for how we should structure our own prayerlife: adoration, confession, thanksgiving, supplication. This model helps us to keep our prayers balanced, otherwise some of us would be thanking God all day long, others would be saying sorry all day long etc.

 

[9T6]

I think we are asking God to encourage and edify us, not to remove temptation from our sights. We are still the ones that have to not yield to temptation, but we have God's help.

I would like to think that we are indeed asking for God to help and encourage us - and I am sure he does do that. But the wording of this particular phrase does ask God not to lead us into temptation. But even with God's help do you think that we are able not to yield to temptation? Could we ever live a sin-free existence? Is not this plea not to lead us into temptation a confession that we cannot, whatever we do, avoid succumbing to temptation?

Prayer is the way we show that we have a relationship with God. We can talk to him about things, even if it is obvious and we said the much same things the day before.

Absolutely . We assume and believe that God already knows what we are going to pray about, and, in fact, even knows better than we do what we should actually be praying about! - But he still wants us to pray it anyway. It seems to me that this is clear evidence that God wants to work his will through people. And it is through prayer that we develop our own Christian values and understanding.

The Lord's Prayer is a model for how we should structure our own prayerlife: adoration, confession, thanksgiving, supplication. This model helps us to keep our prayers balanced, otherwise some of us would be thanking God all day long, others would be saying sorry all day long etc.

Yes, indeed. Although I have often wondered that the Lord's Prayer does not actually have a direct and explicit thanksgiving, although it is implicit in expansion of several of the phrases comprising the Prayer.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

But even with God's help do you think that we are able not to yield to temptation? Could we ever live a sin-free existence? Is not this plea not to lead us into temptation a confession that we cannot, whatever we do, avoid succumbing to temptation?

Being a Christian is about trying to be Christ-like. We will never get there in our lifetimes, but we try. When we become a Christian, our lives change as we let go the old ways and rise to new life in Christ. Gradually, many of our sinful ways fall away - gossiping, coveting, avoiding people etc. We still slip up and return to our old lives, especially with thoughts and words.

I think that theoretically it is possible to live a sin-free existance, but in reality, it's not likely to happen. Things are thrown at us in life, and we don't always react in a Christ-like way to them (the first time, especially). All we can do is our best and keep our eye on God.

 

[9T6]

Being a Christian is about trying to be Christ-like. We will never get there in our lifetimes, but we try. When we become a Christian, our lives change as we let go the old ways and rise to new life in Christ. Gradually, many of our sinful ways fall away - gossiping, coveting, avoiding people etc. We still slip up and return to our old lives, especially with thoughts and words.

I think that theoretically it is possible to live a sin-free existance, but in reality, it's not likely to happen. Things are thrown at us in life, and we don't always react in a Christ-like way to them (the first time, especially). All we can do is our best and keep our eye on God.

Yes, it is fascinating to see in oneself the changes that gradually occur. It is possible to look back even just a few years and see how one reacted differently then to similar situations occuring now. However, I don't think this is the result of God leading us away from temptation, rather I think it is the result of our deepening love for God and Jesus that creates in us a desire to please God that overrides our desire to please ourselves. We have learnt to recognise that God's way is not only the best way but is the only way to communal peace, happiness and fulfilment. At the same time we are learning that the things that are the objects of our own selfish desires actually hold no lasting value or satisfaction - even money

It is interesting that you said: "Things are thrown at us in life". Are these not the very situations that we are asking God not to lead us into when we say "Lead us not into temptation"? We know that we are going to face them and yet we ask God to put a barrier between us and those situations instead of asking for the means to overcome them. In fact Paul seems to be far more realistic about this when he exhorts us to wear God's armour in order to resist and counter temptation.

I still do not understand this plea. It would seem far more realistic to me to ask God for the strength and means to resist the inevitable temptation that I am going to face each day

 

[WAB]

I agree with you. That is why I am exploring this issue further.

If God does not protect us from temptation because of the need to allow us to exercise freewill, and we accept that need, why did Christ tell us to pray that God would not lead us into temptation? If God were to comply with our petition to be protected from temptation he would be removing our freewill - so why pray for it?

Because He was not instructing us... He was guiding His disciples who were still under the Laws of Moses. See the earlier post, and by all means read and contemplate re what James 1:13 tells us. If we cannot accept what God is telling us through our Lord's half-brother on the matter, then we might as well toss the whole thing.