Question about the Eucharist

[Bryne]

I would like to know how the Orthodox view of the Eucharist compares to the RCC view of the Eucharist in regards to it being a representation of the sacrifice.

Thanks.

 

[Gregorios]

The Eucharist is the center of life in the Orthodox Church because the Church is primarily a eucharistic community. The Eucharist is the completion of all of the Church's other sacraments and the source and the goal of all of the Church's doctrines and institutions.
The majority of scholars of the Last Supper do not believe that it was a Passover meal, a position consistent with the account given by the Gospel of Saint John. A minority believe that it was a seder or Passover meal, a position consistent with the Synoptic gospels. However, as Enrico Mazza has argued, the minority view "remains a theological interpretation. The historical fact is that the Last Supper was not a Passover celebration and, consequently, that its liturgy was not that of the Jewish Passover" (The Celebration of the Eucharist: The Origin of the Rite and the Development of Its Interpretation [Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1999] pp. 25-26).



The Orthodox Church believes the Eucharist to be a sacrifice. As is heard in the Liturgy, "Thine of Thine own we offer to Thee, in all and for all."

1. At the Eucharist, the sacrifice offered is Christ himself, and it is Christ himself who in the Church performs the act of offering: He is both priest and victim.
2. We offer to Thee. The Eucharist is offered to God the Trinity — not just to the Father but also to the Holy Spirit and to Christ Himself. So, what is the sacrifice of the Eucharist? By whom is it offered? and to whom is it offered? In each case the answer is Christ.
3. We offer for all: according to Orthodox theology, the Eucharist is a propitiatory sacrifice, offered on behalf of both the living and the dead.

The Church teaches that the sacrifice is not a mere figure or symbol but a true sacrifice. It is not the bread that is sacrificed, but the very Body of Christ. And, the Lamb of God was sacrificed only once, for all time. The sacrifice at the Eucharist consists, not in the real and bloody immolation of the Lamb, but in the transformation of the bread into the sacrificed Lamb.
All the events of Christ's sacrifice, the Incarnation, the Last Supper, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and the Ascension are not repeated in the Eucharist, but they are made present.


The Eucharist is both symbolic and mystical. Also, the Eucharist in the Orthodox Church is understood to be the genuine Body and Blood of Christ, precisely because bread and wine are the mysteries and symbols of God's true and genuine presence and his manifestation to us in Christ.
The mystery of the Holy Eucharist defies analysis and explanation in purely rational and logical terms. For the Eucharist, as Christ himself, is a mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven which, as Jesus has told us, is "not of this world." The Eucharist, because it belongs to God's Kingdom, is truly free from the earth-born "logic" of fallen humanity.
From St. John of Damascus: "If you enquire how this happens, it is enough for you to learn that it is through the Holy Spirit ... we know nothing more than this, that the word of God is true, active, and omnipotent, but in its manner of operation unsearchable".


Hope that helps

 

[Gregorios]

I think you nice Lutheran folks use leavend bread for your communion as well don't you?

 

[Bryne]

I believe that leavened bread can be used, but it isn't used in my church. We use the same sort of communion wafers as the Catholic Church uses.

I am still a little hung up on the sacrifice part. I have problems with the idea that we are offering up the Eucharist as a sacrifice to God...which is how I understand the Catholic view. I don't have a problem with it being a sacrifice that is made present for us so we can receive forgiveness of sins. But I do have a problem with it being a sacrifice that we offer to God for forgiveness of sins.

If it is Christ that offers Himself (which I believe), then I can believe that...but it was Christ who offered Himself on the cross, and He is now made present to us so we can truly receive His Body and Blood. That offering doesn't need to be made again.

By the way...I am not trying to debate this issue...as I know this isn't the correct forum to do so. I am just trying to make sure I understand the Orthodox position correctly and don't reject it because I am confusing it with the Catholic position...which I have serious problems with.

 

[Gregorios]

I believe that leavened bread can be used, but it isn't used in my church. We use the same sort of communion wafers as the Catholic Church uses.

I am still a little hung up on the sacrifice part. I have problems with the idea that we are offering up the Eucharist as a sacrifice to God...which is how I understand the Catholic view. I don't have a problem with it being a sacrifice that is made present for us so we can receive forgiveness of sins. But I do have a problem with it being a sacrifice that we offer to God for forgiveness of sins.

If it is Christ that offers Himself (which I believe), then I can believe that...but it was Christ who offered Himself on the cross, and He is now made present to us so we can truly receive His Body and Blood. That offering doesn't need to be made again.

By the way...I am not trying to debate this issue...as I know this isn't the correct forum to do so. I am just trying to make sure I understand the Orthodox position correctly and don't reject it because I am confusing it with the Catholic position...which I have serious problems with.

Christ offering Himself would be the way we understand it, yes.

 

[wpage]

The Holy Eucharist is as important as other important aspects of the Bible that are meaningful.

 

[Bryne]

I would agree with that statement.

 

[Luther073082]

I think you nice Lutheran folks use leavend bread for your communion as well don't you?

There doesn't seem to be much rules as to what kind of bread can be used. I would say the majority of churchs use wafers like the RCC. Some churchs use unleavended bread, some use leavened bread. On Maudy Thursday one church I used to attend had communion with Matza (sp?).

The church I'm going to now uses a strange cracker. I'm not exactly sure what it is but to me it tastes a bit like a Ritz Cracker. My wife on the other hand thinks there is some cheese in it. (I don't taste any at all.)

I've really seen all sorts of different types of bread and wines used for communion in Lutheran churchs. The one I'm at now I think is the strangest, in fact I'm considering asking exactly what it is.

 

[Knee V]

I believe that leavened bread can be used, but it isn't used in my church. We use the same sort of communion wafers as the Catholic Church uses.

I am still a little hung up on the sacrifice part. I have problems with the idea that we are offering up the Eucharist as a sacrifice to God...which is how I understand the Catholic view. I don't have a problem with it being a sacrifice that is made present for us so we can receive forgiveness of sins. But I do have a problem with it being a sacrifice that we offer to God for forgiveness of sins.

If it is Christ that offers Himself (which I believe), then I can believe that...but it was Christ who offered Himself on the cross, and He is now made present to us so we can truly receive His Body and Blood. That offering doesn't need to be made again.

By the way...I am not trying to debate this issue...as I know this isn't the correct forum to do so. I am just trying to make sure I understand the Orthodox position correctly and don't reject it because I am confusing it with the Catholic position...which I have serious problems with.

To sacrifice doesn't necessarily mean to kill something. To make a sacrifice is to give something up. The people of Israel sacrificed the best of their livestock and fruit of the ground. It was their best, and they gave it up. That is what a sacrifice is. God gave it to us in the first place, and we give it back to God. By doing so we remember our need for depending on God for our sustenance and life.

Part of the Divine Liturgy goes, "Thine own of Thine own we offer unto Thee on behalf of all and for all." Basically, we're giving back to God what He has given us. That needs to be what our whole life is about; moment by moment offering our whole life and world back to God who gave it to us in the first place.