question about the book of Revelation

[lutherangerman]

Hi there,

I must say that the book of Revelation is a text that in many ways unsettles me deeply. I do not usually read it anymore.

But since a while some things about it I remember in my thoughts and I know the book is canonical and it says in the beginning that those will be blessed who take it to heart.

So I have a question. It says in one verse, that "men will seek death but death will flee from them". I think I know what this means. When I look around the world I don't see people seeking their own death. The naturalistic worldview after which we all simply cease being when we die, is accepted as real but many people seek comfort and solace in a religion.

Some, but not all. my atheistic father actually felt an ironic comfort in his belief that death really annihilates everyone. Could it be that this verse in the book means that there will come a time when people know for sure that after life they either get damned or taken up to eternal life? Maybe through scientific discoveries?

For a time in my life when I was not baptized yet and didn't know Jesus' love very well I had tried to go back to my old atheism. I believed in God and that the christian worldview was real, but I had such deep issues with it and I had trouble with my mental health that I longed to go back to atheism where I thought I wouldn't need to worry about anything. compared with the outlook of hell for many people I thought that a mere ceasing to be after death appealed to me. Was that the kind of seeking death that men will do at some point in the future? A death they will not find?

 

[John Stefanyszyn]

The understanding of this scripture is confusing since its translation from the Greek words and context is not clear. If you are truly seeking the truth and God's kingdom, if you study the original Greek words, and if you are with the Holy Spirit, you will see clearly the message.

5th Trumpet
A key is given to a great leader (star) to open the pit of the abyss.

Smoke (way of deception) came out of the pit and darkened the sunlight and air (the proclaiming of the kingdom of God by the faithful elect).

This will happen as follows.

Out of the smoke came locusts, which were told by this leader to injure only the men who do not have the seal (mark) on their foreheads of the locusts' god (the god of this star-beast).

It was given to these locusts that they should not initially kill these men who do not have this seal (mark-belief), but that they should first be tormented (examined-tortured) for 5 months. This torment (examination-torture) was like the torment of scorpion stings. During these days shall seek (question-debate-make controversy) men their death (cause of death) and shall not find (ascertain by examination) it; and shall desire to die (to be disaccustomed-to be untaught), and therefore they shall flee (escape, avoid) death.

(Note: the highlighted green words are other definitions of the same underlined Greek words.)

In other words, these self proclaimed Christians will compromise on their faith after they have undergone examination and persecution. They will therefore accept, acknowledge, and embrace the preeminence of the “righteousness” of the way of the beast, which all of man will glorify as the true universal values of peace and as the belief in the freedom and respect of rights and religions. Those who do not compromise, will be killed.

These locusts will have the faces of men, be powerful, and their authority will be supported by all the “crowns” of the world nations. They will be ruled by a leader who God describes as the spiritual destroyer (Apollyon, Abadon). God refers to him as the destroyer because his way leads to the destruction of the True Way. This world leader, along with all of mankind, will also succeed in physically destroying the elect from the surface of the earth. Man will have rejected the Truth and the True God, after which time Christ will return.

This was seen in the past with the flood, where man rejected God.
This was seen in Sodom and Gomorrah, where there was not one found, besides Lot, who worshipped God.
When man rejects God completely, God gives them over to the consequences of their ways and perversions.

After which, judgement and punishment is imposed on all the individual self serving interest which creates injustice, hatred, perversions, lies, murder, adultery, fornication, hypocrasy, and on and on.

I hope that this will help you to see the truth and the purpose of our service, as bondmen of Christ, to stand for Him and to serve the One and Only True God.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi Luther, I remember from my pre-Christian days, in my early 20's, contracting a flu that was so painful for so many days that I truly thought I would rather die than try to survive another minute of it. I think that, times 10, is probably what's going on here in Rev 9.

Whatever this special breed of locusts God allowed to be unleashed from the pit of Hell were actually like (perhaps they were demons in a form that resembled locusts? .. see v11), they were clearly too much to bear for those who were being attacked by them (and they sought death as a better alternative to living on in the pain and torment that was being inflicted upon them). But the locusts weren't allowed to kill anyone and God was apparently not letting anyone die during this period (see .. v5-6).

The text seems clear enough about these points. Do you believe something additional is supported by it as well?

Yours and His,
David

The locusts ... "were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months;
and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.
And in those days men will seek death and will not find it;
they will long to die, and death flees from them."
Revelation 9:5-6​

 

[papaJP]

Hi there,

I must say that the book of Revelation is a text that in many ways unsettles me deeply. I do not usually read it anymore.

But since a while some things about it I remember in my thoughts and I know the book is canonical and it says in the beginning that those will be blessed who take it to heart.

So I have a question. It says in one verse, that "men will seek death but death will flee from them". I think I know what this means. When I look around the world I don't see people seeking their own death. The naturalistic worldview after which we all simply cease being when we die, is accepted as real but many people seek comfort and solace in a religion.

Some, but not all. my atheistic father actually felt an ironic comfort in his belief that death really annihilates everyone. Could it be that this verse in the book means that there will come a time when people know for sure that after life they either get damned or taken up to eternal life? Maybe through scientific discoveries?

For a time in my life when I was not baptized yet and didn't know Jesus' love very well I had tried to go back to my old atheism. I believed in God and that the christian worldview was real, but I had such deep issues with it and I had trouble with my mental health that I longed to go back to atheism where I thought I wouldn't need to worry about anything. compared with the outlook of hell for many people I thought that a mere ceasing to be after death appealed to me. Was that the kind of seeking death that men will do at some point in the future? A death they will not find?

_____________________________________________________

Again you are seeking answers that would be available to a spirit filled believers.

The naturalistic worldview after which we all simply cease being when we die, is accepted as real but many people seek comfort and solace in a religion.

This is the stated view of those who are not real believers. There is no solace in a religion only in a true belief in God.

The best accepted understanding is that the people will come to the conclusion or realization that life in the world is not worth continuing to live in it and death will be preferable. If they are nonbelievers then they will simply cease being and be spared further suffering. If they are believers and know that they are saved to eternal life they will welcome death when the proper time comes.

Could it be that this verse in the book means that there will come a time when people know for sure that after life they either get damned or taken up to eternal life? Maybe through scientific discoveries?

The answer to this is all true believers know that they will be taken to eternal life. Those who do not believe will never know the truth until God reveals it to them at the great white throne judgement. As to scientific discoveries they are only allowed by God but they do not fit into this circumstances.

Seek God and a true belief and He will give you the truth. It is a choice you must make and you have to put forth the effort to seek the truth.

 

[lutherangerman]

Papa, don't be so arrogant. What is the purpose of all your learning and bible knowledge if you don't use it to help other believers? You're a really a thorny fruit to gnaw on.

 

[lutherangerman]

John, I am a baptized christian and although not perfect by far I do think I am a honest believer in Jesus.

But I do respect people of other religions, I find we must simply live together. I do not believe in other religions and have stood up for Jesus often, but I don't quite believe that making compromises here and there for the sake of living together is an evil thing. For example, I have two sisters who are really agnostic and I can't force them to believe in God. Still they are decent people, more decent than me in many ways. Again, we must live together with such people and not villify them.

Because of this fact, I do not quite believe that the beast's rise will be about world peace and respect between the world religions. I think of it more as a nazi regime which doesn't honor freedom at all. In fact I think the historical regime of the nazis gives a clue about how the beast-regime will look like. When we look at the prophetic books of the bible, the spiritual sin of idolatry and such was always accompanied by cruelity, neglect of the poor, no respect of the rights of the suffering and needy, and that kind of thing. So I would say this rise of the beast will be marked by evils that a great majority of people even in this day and age will be able to clearly see as evil. That's why there will be many people who will come out of this tribulation, and the church and the whole of christianity will still be able to be fishers of men and save those who have good intentions and probably even some of those who began with evil intentions. I don't believe the church will ever become extinct, it is clear from the Gospels that there will be believers when Jesus comes back, the women with oil in their lamps, those who govern their christian households well, and so on.