question about taoism and sexual morality

[Rhamiel]

hello, I would just like to know if any of you know what taoism teaches about sexual morality, I am looking for answers from practicing taoists or at least serious students of taoism
thank you very much for your time

 

[Wicked Willow]

This book explains it better and in more detail than I ever could. Hope that helps.

 

[MichaelNZ]

Daoism is about a return to nature, and "going with the flow". The book that Willow posted seems to go pretty in-depth about Daoist sexual practices.

Most Chinese ethics on sexuality come from Confucius, who said that for a woman to lose her virginity outside of marriage is a fate worse than death. However, few Chinese follow that, with 80% of young people in Beijing engaging in premarital sex. In Malaysia, it is common for Chinese boyfriends and girlfriends to live together.

 

[Rhamiel]

This book explains it better and in more detail than I ever could. Hope that helps.

thank you so much, while the alchemical part of the belief system does not seem to go along with Christianity, I can not say for sure that it does not because I do not really have a deep understanding of taoist Alchemy, the basics of it seem very Christian

 

[Rhamiel]

three basic taoist reasons for sex, from wicked willows link
it is a micro-cosmic act that goes along with the macro-cosmic union of heaven and earth
it creates harmony between husband and wife and it produces children so it is in one way a social duty to make the next generation
it is healthy and helps the individual have balance

all of these basic reasons would also be reasons for Christians to think sex is good, with union of husband and wife a reflection of the union of our souls with the Holy Spirit, union of Heaven (God) and Earth (us)
it is an act that joins husband and wife in a physical and spiritual way, also the production of children is a good thing
and it is natural and healthy
all things Christians can agree with the Taoists about

 

[Saint Nihilo]

I think before your question can be truly answered by anyone you have to make a very important distinction. Are we talking about Philosophical Taoism or Religious Taoism? To be perfectly honest (as someone who has studied Chinese religion extensively at the university level) the idea of Lao-Tzu, Philosophical Taoism, etc. is practically dead in Asia. Taosim as it is practiced in China is absolutely swollen with magic, alchemy, immortality, magic potions, sexual ritualism, polytheism, etc. The resurgence of looking at Taoism as a philosophy devoid of magic is mainly a Western invention. The Tao Te Ching is actually hardly ever read by Chinese Taoists. The main religious text of Religious Taoism is the Daozhang and the Tao Te Ching is practically an afterthough in that huge religious text. Lao-Tzu is revered as a god by most Chinese Taoists, not simply a wandering sage.

As to the main question of sexual morality: in Religious Taoism (the majority of Taoists) sexuality is something that is heavily involved with balances of yin and yang energies and with the control of "qi." sperm is seen as living qi and using it too much can lead to a weak lifeforce. The Tao Te Ching and the works of Chuang Tzu really don't say much about sex and these are the main texts for the Western philosophical branch of Taoism that is practically defunct in Asia.

As to your idea about Taoism and its relationship with Christian beliefs, that is a bit tricky. Taoism's main tenents can be summed up in "wu wei" which roughly means "non-action" and I can't see this being easily matched up with Christianity which seeks active converts to the faith and believes in praying, fasting, etc. which distrupt natural order.

 

[Rhamiel]

I think before your question can be truly answered by anyone you have to make a very important distinction. Are we talking about Philosophical Taoism or Religious Taoism? To be perfectly honest (as someone who has studied Chinese religion extensively at the university level) the idea of Lao-Tzu, Philosophical Taoism, etc. is practically dead in Asia. Taosim as it is practiced in China is absolutely swollen with magic, alchemy, immortality, magic potions, sexual ritualism, polytheism, etc. The resurgence of looking at Taoism as a philosophy devoid of magic is mainly a Western invention. The Tao Te Ching is actually hardly ever read by Chinese Taoists. The main religious text of Religious Taoism is the Daozhang and the Tao Te Ching is practically an afterthough in that huge religious text. Lao-Tzu is revered as a god by most Chinese Taoists, not simply a wandering sage.

As to the main question of sexual morality: in Religious Taoism (the majority of Taoists) sexuality is something that is heavily involved with balances of yin and yang energies and with the control of "qi." sperm is seen as living qi and using it too much can lead to a weak lifeforce. The Tao Te Ching and the works of Chuang Tzu really don't say much about sex and these are the main texts for the Western philosophical branch of Taoism that is practically defunct in Asia.

As to your idea about Taoism and its relationship with Christian beliefs, that is a bit tricky. Taoism's main tenents can be summed up in "wu wei" which roughly means "non-action" and I can't see this being easily matched up with Christianity which seeks active converts to the faith and believes in praying, fasting, etc. which distrupt natural order.

good point, I know more about Philisophical Taoism then I do about Religious Taoism, I focus more on the Philisophical because I like it more.
wu wei does not seem to line up with Christianity, but I think that might be because we are not looking deep enough, but how close these two world views are is up for debate, I am more interested in the sexual ethics of Philisophical Taoism

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste Rhamiel,

thank you for the post.

hello, I would just like to know if any of you know what taoism teaches about sexual morality, I am looking for answers from practicing taoists or at least serious students of taoism
thank you very much for your time

i practice the Complete Reality school of Tao so my answers are grounded in that schools teachings.

i'm not really clear what you want to know, however. sexual morality is, like morality in genera,l advocated and given as part of the teachings.

metta,

~v

 

[Rhamiel]

Namaste Rhamiel,

thank you for the post.



i practice the Complete Reality school of Tao so my answers are grounded in that schools teachings.

i'm not really clear what you want to know, however. sexual morality is, like morality in genera,l advocated and given as part of the teachings.

metta,

~v

i like to learn about philisophical taoism, but I do not know a lot about it, I was just wondering what the taoist teachings about sexual morality were

 

[vajradhara]

i like to learn about philisophical taoism, but I do not know a lot about it, I was just wondering what the taoist teachings about sexual morality were

Namaste Rhamiel,

thank you for the post.

for instance... you wonder if, say, sexual assault is permitted or denied?

or is it more along the lines of monogamy v. polygamy and the like?

Tao has at it's core an idea of renunciation which has a pretty different connotation in the eastern traditions than how the term is understood in the west. in any event the three religions of China (Tao, Buddha Dharma, Kung fu'ze) share an idea of renunciation regarding attachment to form, in particular how lust and unchecked sexual desire can result in unskillful actions.

from my schools' point of view the sexual alchemy schools have gotten themselves all confused and end up inhibiting rather than promoting their progress along the path.

metta,

~v

 

[Rhamiel]

Namaste Rhamiel,

thank you for the post.

for instance... you wonder if, say, sexual assault is permitted or denied?

or is it more along the lines of monogamy v. polygamy and the like?

Tao has at it's core an idea of renunciation which has a pretty different connotation in the eastern traditions than how the term is understood in the west. in any event the three religions of China (Tao, Buddha Dharma, Kung fu'ze) share an idea of renunciation regarding attachment to form, in particular how lust and unchecked sexual desire can result in unskillful actions.

from my schools' point of view the sexual alchemy schools have gotten themselves all confused and end up inhibiting rather than promoting their progress along the path.

metta,

~v

thank you, that is what I was looking for,
two years ago I read the Tao Te Ching and I have been really interested in philisophical Taoism ever since

 

[juvenissun]

hello, I would just like to know if any of you know what taoism teaches about sexual morality, I am looking for answers from practicing taoists or at least serious students of taoism
thank you very much for your time

Within a religion, any religion, there is good and evil.
So is in Daoism.
Does this answer your question?

 

[juvenissun]

I think before your question can be truly answered by anyone you have to make a very important distinction. Are we talking about Philosophical Taoism or Religious Taoism? To be perfectly honest (as someone who has studied Chinese religion extensively at the university level) the idea of Lao-Tzu, Philosophical Taoism, etc. is practically dead in Asia. Taosim as it is practiced in China is absolutely swollen with magic, alchemy, immortality, magic potions, sexual ritualism, polytheism, etc. The resurgence of looking at Taoism as a philosophy devoid of magic is mainly a Western invention. The Tao Te Ching is actually hardly ever read by Chinese Taoists. The main religious text of Religious Taoism is the Daozhang and the Tao Te Ching is practically an afterthough in that huge religious text. Lao-Tzu is revered as a god by most Chinese Taoists, not simply a wandering sage.

That is absolutely wrong. The Daoism religion is visible. The Daoism philosophy is invisible, as it should be. The philosophy of Daoism still goes very popular in China. Believe it or not, Obama should learn some of it and shrink his government.

 

[juvenissun]

i like to learn about philisophical taoism, but I do not know a lot about it, I was just wondering what the taoist teachings about sexual morality were

Daoism originated from China. It sexual morality is conformable with that of classical morality of Chinese society. You should know that polygamy is normal and legal in Chinese society until early 20th Century. Daoism accept that too.

 

[juvenissun]

Namaste Rhamiel,

thank you for the post.

for instance... you wonder if, say, sexual assault is permitted or denied?

or is it more along the lines of monogamy v. polygamy and the like?

Tao has at it's core an idea of renunciation which has a pretty different connotation in the eastern traditions than how the term is understood in the west. in any event the three religions of China (Tao, Buddha Dharma, Kung fu'ze) share an idea of renunciation regarding attachment to form, in particular how lust and unchecked sexual desire can result in unskillful actions.

from my schools' point of view the sexual alchemy schools have gotten themselves all confused and end up inhibiting rather than promoting their progress along the path.

metta,

~v

Sexual alchemy is evil in Chinese society through out her history. Daoist practiced sexual alchemy is called 妖道 （devil priest).

 

[Wicked Willow]

Sexual alchemy is evil in Chinese society through out her history. Daoist practiced sexual alchemy is called 妖道 （devil priest).

"thoughout her history"? Oh well, here's what Wikipedia has to say on the subject:

"The sexual arts arguably reached their peak between the end of the Han dynasty and the end of the Tang dynasty. After 1000 CE, Confucianhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucian puritanism became stronger and stronger, so that by the advent of the Qing dynasty, sex was a taboo topic in public life.These Confucians alleged that the separation of genders in most social activities existed two thousand years ago, and suppressed the sexual arts. Because of the taboo surrounding sex, there was much censoring done during the Qing in literature, and the sexual arts disappeared in public life. As a result, some of the texts survived only in Japan, and most scholars had no idea that such a different concept of sex existed in early China."

 

[juvenissun]

"thoughout her history"? Oh well, here's what Wikipedia has to say on the subject:

"The sexual arts arguably reached their peak between the end of the Han dynasty and the end of the Tang dynasty. After 1000 CE, Confucianhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucian puritanism became stronger and stronger, so that by the advent of the Qing dynasty, sex was a taboo topic in public life.These Confucians alleged that the separation of genders in most social activities existed two thousand years ago, and suppressed the sexual arts. Because of the taboo surrounding sex, there was much censoring done during the Qing in literature, and the sexual arts disappeared in public life. As a result, some of the texts survived only in Japan, and most scholars had no idea that such a different concept of sex existed in early China."

You are confused. They are apple and orange.

Sexual art is NOT sexual alchemy.

 

[Wicked Willow]

You are confused. They are apple and orange.

Sexual art is NOT sexual alchemy.

The article I quoted was talking about taoist sexual practices, including sexual alchemy or 合氣/合气.

 

[juvenissun]

The article I quoted was talking about taoist sexual practices, including sexual alchemy or 合氣/合气.

Any article which talks about it does not mean that it is socially acceptable. The idea of sexual alchemy is more than just 合氣. Sex between married couple is also 合氣.