Question about support & court

[ShainaBrina]

Thank you John for defending my honour and thanks MyAnchor and MacX for stepping in. I was feeling attacked.

 

[taku60]

Unfortunatly when mom goes off with the pool boy or just flat out decides to neglect him and a divorce results now he has to find a new woman and that takes resources which will be taken away from the kid, im not saying that support should not be paid but the english saddle riding lessons dry up when mommy decides she is going to behave poorly and when the courts force the issue it can cause the father to resent the mother and possibly the kid and take actions consistant to get out of payments because he may need that money to court someone new, just because he has a kid from a dead beat mom does not make him a eunch. I think support should be strongly based on who is at fault in the marriage, and the inocent party should be able to go back out and find happieness without the burden of a kid or the issues that she now has because she choose to behave poorly. IF he decided he simply wanted to trade her in for a younger woman and there was no brattyness, neglect or condesention on her part then he messed up and in thoes cases the courts are right.

In the case of the plumber once he figured out he was going to be put through the ringer he probably had 4 months to get out of dodge, he should have secured a passport and started working on paper work to leave to somewhere where he could keep a decent wage. You are right all it takes is a social worker that is actually doing their job and has an IQ greater than 80 but look what he had to go through before things were finially iorned out, thats totally unaccptable, he should not have had to spend even 24 hrs in a reduced quality of life because of the poor behavior of a dead beat woman. People work hard for professional licences, degrees and to build their reputation and their high income is the fruits of their labor and I have alot of contempt towards courts that say oh theres deep pockets lets extort him.

I think the courts are biased in favor of the children. His income does play into how much should be given to the kid's raising and upbringing. If as his child, the child would have been given English Saddle riding lessons from age 5, private schools and a 10K college fund contribution, per year . . . the child should still get that even if mom and dad hit the splits. Just 'cause dad decided to trade mom in on a younger model or mom decided to "know" the poolboy, doesn't mean that the child's standard of living should go down.

I know of a case where a fella was tapped for child support, paid it while he could (as a union plumber or something on that payscale) suffered a mental illness and became homeless, back pay racked up & when mental health resources became available & he got on meds to manage an otherwise debilitating mental illness . . . the State demanded such a high proportion of his check that he couldn't make rent . . . anywhere, driving him back into homelessness & unemployment . .. followed by disconnection from mental health resources and untreated mental health symptoms. The guy had bounced off this "glass ceiling" three times before he came into the program I was working for at the time. Investigation by me & follow up DNA revealed that he wasn't actually the father of this child at all, but of the men who might have been, he was the one who had the best paying job when the mother got knocked up. I'm not saying men never get screwwed over, but that it only takes a marginally competent social worker (like me) to get the truth sorted out and legal papers to match. Surely someone with actual money could get the same thing done without the homelessness & having to depend on (me) odd ducks that like to make homeless folks into happy, healthy, sheltered folks.

 

[AirForceTeacher]

Taku, I paid well over half my income for 2 and half years, and even I think you're going overboard in your diatribe. It's gone well past devil's advocate.

 

[taku60]

Taku, I paid well over half my income for 2 and half years, and even I think you're going overboard in your diatribe. It's gone well past devil's advocate.

So becasue you had to do it makes it ok?

Unless you really loved your job and going to work was fun what motivation would you have to work if over half of it is being taken, why not go be a ski instructor, bartender, puddle jumper pilot or something, your not keeping your money anyways why not do do something fun. Move someplace warm so you dont have the whole cold weather thing to contend with when your broke and live in a hammock in an air plane hanger and work under the table to pay for your training. Of course finding a new mate might be tough living like this so you may have to make some modifications/look for a different type of woman etc.

I just dont understand why you would go through the daily grind for no gain.

 

[ShainaBrina]

So Taku are you saying that if you make a bad choice in a wife, you should no longer be responsible for any children you have with her?

 

[AirForceTeacher]

So becasue you had to do it makes it ok?

Unless you really loved your job and going to work was fun what motivation would you have to work if over half of it is being taken, why not go be a ski instructor, bartender, puddle jumper pilot or something, your not keeping your money anyways why not do do something fun. Move someplace warm so you dont have the whole cold weather thing to contend with when your broke and live in a hammock in an air plane hanger and work under the table to pay for your training. Of course finding a new mate might be tough living like this so you may have to make some modifications/look for a different type of woman etc.

I just dont understand why you would go through the daily grind for no gain.

That's not what I said, but good choice of words to put in my mouth.

No it wasn't right, and in fact, it is ruining my current relationship, because she can't (or won't) understand why I bought my ex-wife two $200000 houses, but I can't give her anything but an apartment right now.

But my kids shouldn't have to pay for my and their mother's mistakes. Unfortunately, making their life better makes her life better, and because I attempt to have a decent character, I let it go instead of letting it burn me up.

 

[canukian]

i happen to know that 40% of men who commit suicide in ontario are going through family court at the time of their deaths. good luck getting money from them.

 

[AirForceTeacher]

i happen to know that 40% of men who commit suicide in ontario are going through family court at the time of their deaths. good luck getting money from them.

That's a troubling statistic, but it doesn't honestly say anything other than "divorce is emotionally traumatic."

 

[taku60]

That's not what I said, but good choice of words to put in my mouth.

No it wasn't right, and in fact, it is ruining my current relationship, because she can't (or won't) understand why I bought my ex-wife two $200000 houses, but I can't give her anything but an apartment right now.

But my kids shouldn't have to pay for my and their mother's mistakes. Unfortunately, making their life better makes her life better, and because I attempt to have a decent character, I let it go instead of letting it burn me up.

I am by no means suggesting that you let it burn you up you just modify your lifestyle so that you enjoy yourself and minimize how much you are extorted, if I had 200,000$ I would have bought a plane not a house for my ex. You keep mixing up whos fault the divorce is and minimizing it, who is at fault should be a big deal, if she is at fault she should be the one to support the kids not you becasue of her brattyness or whatever you now have to find a new mate which requires resources so your new GF/wife has a right to be upset, you went way over the top and I would not be surprised if she leaves you because you have proven where your priorities lie. Kids are secondary to your mate even in cases where there is not a divorce, so I would say you messed up, im not saying they should be totally neglected but how you allocate your resources shows your priorities and it should go mate then kids not the other way around otherwise you should not be dating. Whats done is done but you should not make the same mistakes twice.

 

[taku60]

So Taku are you saying that if you make a bad choice in a wife, you should no longer be responsible for any children you have with her?

That is exactly what im saying, of course you twisted my words to make it sound bad, a woman can be accomadating and then turn bratty into the marraige that is not the fault of the man, none of us are perfect and one poor choise in a mate should not burden us for 18 years, if she wants to be bratty then she should raise the kids on her own. Since the courts dont support that line of thinking you have to modify your life so that it forces her to raise them anyways.

 

[AirForceTeacher]

I am by no means suggesting that you let it burn you up you just modify your lifestyle so that you enjoy yourself and minimize how much you are extorted, if I had 200,000$ I would have bought a plane not a house for my ex. You keep mixing up whos fault the divorce is and minimizing it, who is at fault should be a big deal, if she is at fault she should be the one to support the kids not you becasue of her brattyness or whatever you now have to find a new mate which requires resources so your new GF/wife has a right to be upset, you went way over the top and I would not be surprised if she leaves you because you have proven where your priorities lie. Kids are secondary to your mate even in cases where there is not a divorce, so I would say you messed up, im not saying they should be totally neglected but how you allocate your resources shows your priorities and it should go mate then kids not the other way around otherwise you should not be dating. Whats done is done but you should not make the same mistakes twice.

But they're still my kids - no matter how she acts. In fact, if she's acting out or otherwise causing their life to be miserable, shouldn't I do more for my kids, not less?

That is exactly what im saying, of course you twisted my words to make it sound bad, a woman can be accomadating and then turn bratty into the marraige that is not the fault of the man, none of us are perfect and one poor choise in a mate should not burden us for 18 years, if she wants to be bratty then she should raise the kids on her own. Since the courts dont support that line of thinking you have to modify your life so that it forces her to raise them anyways.

So , if the mom's a twit, you get to back out and leave the kids to deal with her on their own? I don't think so.

 

[canukian]

That's a troubling statistic, but it doesn't honestly say anything other than "divorce is emotionally traumatic."

its says that family courts grossly favour women over men.

 

[AirForceTeacher]

its says that family courts grossly favour women over men.

Unless I don't understand the term family court, no, it doesn't. That's your analysis of the situation, and you may have other evidence, but that statistic alone does not say that. It says that men who've relationships have failed are higher suicide risks - it doesn't say why.

I thought about suicide A LOT during my divorce and separation. It had nothing to do with money, it had to do with thinking that I had failed at the one important thing, and the fear that I'd be alone for the rest of my life. It had to do with fear of losing contact with my kids, which is affected by family court, but also affected by me - had I been such a terrible person that my kid would turn from me too?

Now, I do agree - family court can look to be severely one-sided in the short term, but the average woman 5 years post-divorce is usually in much worse shape than the average man 5 years post-divorce.

 

[taku60]

Unless I don't understand the term family court, no, it doesn't. That's your analysis of the situation, and you may have other evidence, but that statistic alone does not say that. It says that men who've relationships have failed are higher suicide risks - it doesn't say why.

I thought about suicide A LOT during my divorce and separation. It had nothing to do with money, it had to do with thinking that I had failed at the one important thing, and the fear that I'd be alone for the rest of my life. It had to do with fear of losing contact with my kids, which is affected by family court, but also affected by me - had I been such a terrible person that my kid would turn from me too?

Now, I do agree - family court can look to be severely one-sided in the short term, but the average woman 5 years post-divorce is usually in much worse shape than the average man 5 years post-divorce.

Then you should try to get custody of the kids rather than pouring money into your ex that is not hers. If the court will not grant you custody then I would consider my hands washed of the matter and do the kids get a raw deal yep but you pouring money into your ex is not going to help anything other than they will have a nice sky light and big screen TV as they learn to be bratty or passive aggressive like their mom and turn into dead beat members of society. This may sound hard but I have a friend who is going through this and he has 2 girls that his manipulative passive aggressive ex has custody of, he has been trying to get custody and play the child support game for like 5 years now, once the kid is about the age of 8 to 10 they are for the most part a lost cause, that is a hard reality but he has to accept it becuase it is reality, he has one more smaller girl but she is only a year or 2 from that age so if the courts keep stone walling him they will both just beat dead beat manipulative women and that sucks but the courts are the ones at fault.

 

[canukian]

Unless I don't understand the term family court, no, it doesn't. That's your analysis of the situation, and you may have other evidence, but that statistic alone does not say that. It says that men who've relationships have failed are higher suicide risks - it doesn't say why.

I thought about suicide A LOT during my divorce and separation. It had nothing to do with money, it had to do with thinking that I had failed at the one important thing, and the fear that I'd be alone for the rest of my life. It had to do with fear of losing contact with my kids, which is affected by family court, but also affected by me - had I been such a terrible person that my kid would turn from me too?

Now, I do agree - family court can look to be severely one-sided in the short term, but the average woman 5 years post-divorce is usually in much worse shape than the average man 5 years post-divorce.

you just mostly agreed with me in a long winded way.
100 years ago divorce was almost unheard of. now you would have to be nuts to get married if youre a man.
society has been turned on its head. the destruction of the family will result in the end of western civilization very shortly. there is no doubt in my mind that family court is grossly tilted to favor women, that they are messed up 5 years later is their own fault. soon we will reap.

 

[annrobert]

Hi and thanks for reading

My ex is taking me to court he filed a Change of Order Motion... seems he doesn't want to pay support any more. He's in the States and I am in Canada so that is complicating things

Hi ShainaBrina,
Have you signed up with family maintenance.They could help with alot.
Also there are probono lawyers.It can be very hard to raise children on your own,and both parents should be helping to raise them for sure if possible.The children do not deserve to live in poverty.Both parents need to help.My brother had a hard time getting support from his ex when she left with another guy.

He makes a very good living and his current wife makes even more. He is claiming that he has 0 assets (not even a car). I had to show every account down to the penny but he hasn't. In fact he's refusing to disclose his financials, well other than some tax forms that he may or may not have submitted to the government (he's an accountant).





Is this some American thing... that you can refuse to disclose with what the judge has asked you to? Or is he able to do this because the Judge is in Canada and he's in the States?

The canadian judge might be willing to make an order in his absense based on the income he made in the past if he does not show income.Not sure though.But I think you need to get a good lawyer.

Also, is support based solely on earned income or is it based on ability to pay? Does a millionaire get to live off his millions and get out of paying child support cause he's not working?

I think they count earned income and income from interest on bank accounts and any other income.

If someone won't show their assets or portfolio etc... that surely means they have ample ability to pay right?

I'm just confused...

Oh what's medicare wages, social security wages? Why are these figures different from box 1 on the W-2 form?

Blessings
Shaina

Also if the children have extraordinary expenses such a needing a tutor ,counselling ,speech therapy , extra gas ,larger apartment ,extra trips to doctors due to ill health,glasses,braces,daycare,etc. be sure to note this to the maintenance worker.
If your ex is poor then he will of course not be able to help with these things.He may only be able to make a small contribution to helping support the children.I think if a parent tries to help out but can only help a little ,at least they are trying.But if he is able to help more he should and not try to hide his income or refuse to help just because he wants to be greedy and keep all his money.If the other parent can help they should as they are able.

 

[CaDan]

Let's get this back on topic.

IALBIANYL (I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer).

The US and Canada actually cooperate pretty well in child support matters. Unfortunately, most lawyers are afraid of cross-border practice. I know I was until the first time I had to deal with one.

What sort of child support order do you have? What court or other body issued it?

If it is a Canadian court order, has it been docketed as a foreign judgment in the county where he resides?

 

[CaDan]

On your specific questions

Hi and thanks for reading

My ex is taking me to court he filed a Change of Order Motion... seems he doesn't want to pay support any more. He's in the States and I am in Canada so that is complicating things

He makes a very good living and his current wife makes even more. He is claiming that he has 0 assets (not even a car). I had to show every account down to the penny but he hasn't. In fact he's refusing to disclose his financials, well other than some tax forms that he may or may not have submitted to the government (he's an accountant). Is this some American thing... that you can refuse to disclose with what the judge has asked you to? Or is he able to do this because the Judge is in Canada and he's in the States?

A Canadian order doesn't have a lot of force in the US. The solution is to docket your order as a foreign judgment in the county where he lives.

On Monday, get on the phone to the county court where he lives and ask the clerk (ask nicely) how to docket a foreign judgment. There will be a form and a fee. Then you can get the US child support enforcement system working for you. Plus, you then can get the court in the US to enforce the order.

I know nothing about how child support is calculated in your province. You might want to contact your Justice Minister's office and ask.

Is he currently behind on his payments? Is he a licensed CPA? If so, it is probably professional misconduct for him to not be making his payments and he can lose his license.

Again, IALBIANYL (I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer).

 

[ShainaBrina]

I'm not sure if our old order has been docketed as a foreign judgement. The Ontario Family Responsibility did contact his State's enforcement agency years ago. That took a year... our agency gives themselves 6 months to find the file on their desk...and the State's agency gives themselves 6 months... So every time he moves...

This is a new motion, that he's filed up here. Wanting to reduce our support. During the case conference the judge gave each of us 40 days to make disclosure. He waited until the end of the 40 days and then refused to disclose his financials. Can a Canadian court enforce disclosure?

Thanks Shaina

 

[CaDan]

This is a new motion, that he's filed up here. Wanting to reduce our support. During the case conference the judge gave each of us 40 days to make disclosure. He waited until the end of the 40 days and then refused to disclose his financials. Can a Canadian court enforce disclosure?

Thanks Shaina

It's a lot easier to enforce if you docket the foreign judgment. Call the court in the county where he lives and ask. If it hasn't been docketed, go ahead and pay the fee and do it.

My SiL is a solicitor in Toronto doing family and immigration law--I can probably find out more from her.