Question about support & court

[ShainaBrina]

Hi and thanks for reading

My ex is taking me to court he filed a Change of Order Motion... seems he doesn't want to pay support any more. He's in the States and I am in Canada so that is complicating things

He makes a very good living and his current wife makes even more. He is claiming that he has 0 assets (not even a car). I had to show every account down to the penny but he hasn't. In fact he's refusing to disclose his financials, well other than some tax forms that he may or may not have submitted to the government (he's an accountant). Is this some American thing... that you can refuse to disclose with what the judge has asked you to? Or is he able to do this because the Judge is in Canada and he's in the States?

Also, is support based solely on earned income or is it based on ability to pay? Does a millionaire get to live off his millions and get out of paying child support cause he's not working?

If someone won't show their assets or portfolio etc... that surely means they have ample ability to pay right?

I'm just confused...

Oh what's medicare wages, social security wages? Why are these figures different from box 1 on the W-2 form?

Blessings
Shaina

 

[Macx]

Lawyer.

 

[~Lynz~]

yup lawyer and google.
im resheching child suport payments in the uk and theres lots of wesites out there.

in scotland the law is u must pay even if u are no working u have to pay £5 a week. and then it just goes up from there. even if u dono se the child u sill must pay.

i know that doesnt help u a all but google and get a lawyer is my only advice.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

My work counts some of my health benefits as pay so this could account for the different amounts on a W-2. He could also have before tax deductions.

The United States does not allow you to not answer questions that are legally asked.

Have you asked the District Attorney in his area for assistance? If my ex was living in the United States I would just have to file through them and they would go after him. Unfortunately my ex fled to a country that is not civilized. I knew I would probably not be getting anything from him and if that is the price for peace, I'm able to live with that. I shouldn't have to......................

 

[ShainaBrina]

The district attorney eh?

 

[JohnDB]

Yeah...district attorney.

If he has stopped paying maybe you could get a warrant for his arrest...or if he is really really behind in his payments you could do the same thing...

Getting arrested in front of his coworkers for not paying child support has really really bad connotations here in the states...most guys I know pay their child support before the rent or buy groceries.

It may not help you legally...but it might make you feel better in the meantime.

 

[Conservativation]

Yeah...district attorney.

If he has stopped paying maybe you could get a warrant for his arrest...or if he is really really behind in his payments you could do the same thing...

Getting arrested in front of his coworkers for not paying child support has really really bad connotations here in the states...most guys I know pay their child support before the rent or buy groceries.

It may not help you legally...but it might make you feel better in the meantime.

Sure it will help, if seeing him jailed is helpful and for his child(ren) to know daddy is in jail.....

 

[JohnDB]

Sure it will help, if seeing him jailed is helpful and for his child(ren) to know daddy is in jail.....

The child(ren) is in Canada and he is living in the States...

The only way they would know is if he or she told him/her. K?

It was a lighthearted response to someone that I personally know. K?
ShainaBrina isn't cruel or revengeful in any form or fashion. She isn't going to do as I suggested. I knew that...but I am about sure that you do not.

 

[ShainaBrina]

Currently, I can't even get my own lawyer to respond to my questions

 

[taku60]

It sounds like he is very smart and going across boarders legally will be a mess thats why people do it, the US courts will have to allow extradition so to speak and an arrest warrent is highly unlikely going across boarders, your talking an international situation, this is not joe blow down at the bar being picked up for druken disorderly conduct. There is very clearly much much more to this story than we are being told as leaving your country of orgin to get out of payments means you were most likely being ripped off big time, I know I am playing devils advocate but do you like the court and everyone else with their fingers in your cookie jar. The big issues with support is it only costs a little bit to actually support a kid but the courts will award giagantic amounts of money be paid just becuase he makes good money not because thats what it costs to support a kid. Just because he has millions does not mean you should be entitled to it because he had a kid with you and if the canadian court ruled in your favor that could have been why he left the country, no one leaves the country over a couple hundred bucks in child support, he is likely doing this becuase the dollar amount is way over the top. If he is going through all this over a couple hundred bucks then he is not as smart as i first thought, but I bet the dollar amount is significant, people dont like being extorted especially using kids to facilitate your extortion. Im not saying he is a nice guy or that I would hang out with him, im just saying I dont blame people for protecting themselves from extortion.

 

[dorig59]

My work counts some of my health benefits as pay so this could account for the different amounts on a W-2. He could also have before tax deductions.

The United States does not allow you to not answer questions that are legally asked.

Have you asked the District Attorney in his area for assistance? If my ex was living in the United States I would just have to file through them and they would go after him. Unfortunately my ex fled to a country that is not civilized. I knew I would probably not be getting anything from him and if that is the price for peace, I'm able to live with that. I shouldn't have to......................

Just out of curiosity, what country did he flee to?

 

[Kscasey]

Being in two different countries definitely muddies the water. Is your child support court ordered or state ordered? In the US, if it is state ordered they go after the father and if he requests that his child support amount be lowered or dropped he must disclose his income.

If your lawyer is not responding to you, I'd sure be standing on his doorstep banging on his door.

 

[taku60]

Being in two different countries definitely muddies the water. Is your child support court ordered or state ordered? In the US, if it is state ordered they go after the father and if he requests that his child support amount be lowered or dropped he must disclose his income.

If your lawyer is not responding to you, I'd sure be standing on his doorstep banging on his door.

It does more than muddy the waters, most rational people leave the country because the extortion has gotten so bad that its their last option to be able to keep enough of their money to live the quality of life that they see fit and that is the only way to get out of that nations court orders. The whole point of leaving the country is to get out of the extortion that the court is upholding. Leaving the country is a drastic step and leads me to believe there are very very large sums of money invovled, way above and beyond what is reasonable to raise a kid on. I am frankly surprised he is having any communication with you at all. I feel like some other posters are beating around the bush with the real issue here which is how much money are we talking about?

 

[ShainaBrina]

Wow taku you really are biased. He left the Canada 10 yrs ago because he could make more money down there after damaging his reputation by 'making accounting irregularities in his favour' up here. There is recipricosity between Canada and the US so changing countries doesn't protect someone from extortion as you call it.

Personally I think it's extremely sad that some men think supporting their children is so wrong. The bible is very clear that men are to support their wives and children...even after a divorce. In Mal 2 God refuses to hear the men's prayers because they've dealt treacherously with the wives of their youth.

Children are innocent parties in divorce and should not be forced to live in poverty because their fathers don't want to share.

 

[taku60]

Wow taku you really are biased. He left the Canada 10 yrs ago because he could make more money down there after damaging his reputation by 'making accounting irregularities in his favour' up here. There is recipricosity between Canada and the US so changing countries doesn't protect someone from extortion as you call it.

Personally I think it's extremely sad that some men think supporting their children is so wrong. The bible is very clear that men are to support their wives and children...even after a divorce. In Mal 2 God refuses to hear the men's prayers because they've dealt treacherously with the wives of their youth.

Children are innocent parties in divorce and should not be forced to live in poverty because their fathers don't want to share.

I dont disagree with you in pricipal but the problem is alot of women go for quantities of money WAY above and beyond what it costs to buy diapers and food, clothes whatever, that creates a shift from valid support money to extortion simply because he has the means and you think you are entitled to a slice of the pie just because he had a kid with you, once there is a divorce he is not entitled to keep you at the same quality of life he simply needs to make sure the kid has nessecities not so that mommy can have her nails done and drive a beamer, if you want to drive a beamer then you should get your CPA and be a better accountant then he is. He may be a bad guy (as far as accounting practices etc) but I have friends who have gotten burned by this exact same scenario, their ex wives are bleeding them for up to 50% of there net income, what motivation does someone have to work after every one is done putting their fingers in the cookie jar.

Also just becuase there was a divorce does not automaticly make him the guilty party, if he in fact delt with you treacherously thats one thing but its possible that a womans behavior can drive a man out of the house in which case she should be on her own to support herself and the kid, if you did not want that burden then you should not nag or neglect your husband into another relationship or out of the house, not saying thats the case but after all the things I have seen I dont take these cases at face value because even though the man may make the final move to leave the woman may have done plenty to facilitate that decision. Then women try to absolve themselves of any responsibility by say "its no excuse" ..... and all I have to say to that is whatever.

Now that being said if he left the country for these other reasons you speak of and he is trying to cheat you out of basic nessicities for the kid then he is the one in the wrong, but for some reason I have a 6th sense that the dollar amount in question is very large and you would not be able to justify it if you had to for basic kid nessecities, I could be wrong but I have an overwhelming feeling thats the case and since you are trying to extort him he is going to play hard ball and give you nothing. I would love to be proved wrong.

You know what king David did with his conqubines he was displeased with he locked them in a house and gave them food, he did take care of them but they were not riding a princess pony and wearing jewels, thoes things are reserved for the women who made him happy and they are not entitlements. If you want to act bratty God is not going to reward you, king David may have had to take care of them but it definitly was not lavish. He needed to maintain thoes resources for the women who were agreeable to him you dont throw your pearls to swine otherwise you will have no pearls for that which brings you joy. I do get a kick out of how people like to cherry pick scripture though.

If I am wrong and he is a dirt bag and refusing to pay a couple 100$ for basic expenses then I will appologize but I still think the amount in question is thousands and thousands of dollars possibly tens of thousands

 

[myanchor]

Taku60, you say you are married in your tokens by your name. But in your posts you say you aren't. Which is it? You say you really are horny all the time in most of your posts. You act like a bitter misogynist most of the time. If you have nothing constructive to say, why are you here on CF? This place is meant to help people, not drag them down. I think your attitude towards marriage, women and God is better suited on another forum.

 

[taku60]

Taku60, you say you are married in your tokens by your name. But in your posts you say you aren't. Which is it? You say you really are horny all the time in most of your posts. You act like a bitter misogynist most of the time. If you have nothing constructive to say, why are you here on CF? This place is meant to help people, not drag them down. I think your attitude towards marriage, women and God is better suited on another forum.

I am actually very happy with my wife but I have seen some manipulative extortionist things in my life that people try to pass off as wholesomeness and use kids or some other embodyment of sympathy for their pitty party, im not saying thats the case here but its difficult to help someone when you are not getting the whole story. I believe some people come on for "help" when what they are really asking is how they can better legally extort someone and people that are sneakily trying to manipulate and extort should be drug down. Extortion and manipulation led to the down fall of many old testimate nations.

As I said if I get a dollar amount that is not outragious then I will appologize. I have seen to many instances where the poor mom with a kid is being neglected by her ex husband when in reality she abused the crap out of him (sexual neglect, nagging, what have you) while they were married and he finally got fed up with it and now she is trying to collect and use the kid as an ATM. Im sorry if thats harsh but thats the real world of today.

 

[JohnDB]

I happen to know ShainaBrina on a personal basis. She and I have met and spoken face to face. She isn't looking for thousands upon thousands unless he is way way behind again. He has never wanted to pay his child support. She has been more than lenient with him in the sums that he needs to pay.

He regularly takes grand vacations, pays for new toys and nice, nice house and all of that but doesn't seem to have the money to pay child support for his children...the man is a scumbag. it in no way is proportional to his income. It is a lot less than anything that would be awarded here in the states.

And you do owe her an apology.

 

[taku60]

I happen to know ShainaBrina on a personal basis. She and I have met and spoken face to face. She isn't looking for thousands upon thousands unless he is way way behind again. He has never wanted to pay his child support. She has been more than lenient with him in the sums that he needs to pay.

He regularly takes grand vacations, pays for new toys and nice, nice house and all of that but doesn't seem to have the money to pay child support for his children...the man is a scumbag. it in no way is proportional to his income. It is a lot less than anything that would be awarded here in the states.

And you do owe her an apology.

It should not be about what his income is (even though the courts think otherwise which is wrong, I think the 3 pony rule is way to high) it should be what its about to raise a kid, just because he has good income and can afford things does not mean its a free for all for his cookie jar. That being said if the dollar amount is reasonable for raising a kid and not just gouging him because he makes good money and he still does not want to pay the couple hundred bucks a month then I would agree he is being kinda sleazy, then I will agree with you. Also how he spends his own money is irrelavant because its HIS money. I know way to many cases where guys get gouged hard, it especially effects seasonal or sporaticly employed guys who make really good money when they are working but need that money for when they are laid off and the courts are pretty much completely cut throat, it takes forever to get deviations for payment amounts and someone working sporaticly cant get the court to respond fast enough to their changing employment status, thats when poeple start to work under the table or dont disclose financial assets because the courts are starting to affect their quality of life with their extortion. I hope you better understand why I play the devils advocate in these types of cases because the courts are extremely bias towards the women in cases of support.

 

[Macx]

I think the courts are biased in favor of the children. His income does play into how much should be given to the kid's raising and upbringing. If as his child, the child would have been given English Saddle riding lessons from age 5, private schools and a 10K college fund contribution, per year . . . the child should still get that even if mom and dad hit the splits. Just 'cause dad decided to trade mom in on a younger model or mom decided to "know" the poolboy, doesn't mean that the child's standard of living should go down.

I know of a case where a fella was tapped for child support, paid it while he could (as a union plumber or something on that payscale) suffered a mental illness and became homeless, back pay racked up & when mental health resources became available & he got on meds to manage an otherwise debilitating mental illness . . . the State demanded such a high proportion of his check that he couldn't make rent . . . anywhere, driving him back into homelessness & unemployment . .. followed by disconnection from mental health resources and untreated mental health symptoms. The guy had bounced off this "glass ceiling" three times before he came into the program I was working for at the time. Investigation by me & follow up DNA revealed that he wasn't actually the father of this child at all, but of the men who might have been, he was the one who had the best paying job when the mother got knocked up. I'm not saying men never get screwwed over, but that it only takes a marginally competent social worker (like me) to get the truth sorted out and legal papers to match. Surely someone with actual money could get the same thing done without the homelessness & having to depend on (me) odd ducks that like to make homeless folks into happy, healthy, sheltered folks.