Question about some scripture...

[NewSong]

My pastor keeps preaching on this and I am struggling with what he is saying and perhaps someone could help. It would appear to be perfectly simple to comprehend but I get stuck in certain situations where if we are saved by grace and all things pass away and all things become new and then there are people who do not have complete victory over some things then these people would not see the kingdom of God based on these scriptures below. So my question is, if they can't deliver themself and they are in bondage then how are they going to see the kingdom of God?

Revelation 21:7-8
7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

 

[JimB]

It would probably be a good thing if you went to your pastor and explained this to him personally. I love it when my Sunday lessons stir people to think and I keep the door open to those who want answers. Sometimes I have to tell them, “I’ll get back to you on that,” because I do not have an immediate answer.

If you are anxious about appearing confrontational or accusatory to him, just be sure you are submissive and open to his responses. He may be defensive at first, feeling you are challenging him, but a submissive approach will work.

~Jim

 

[NewSong]

It would probably be a good thing if you went to your pastor and explained this to him personally. I love it when my Sunday lessons stir people to think and I keep the door open to those who want answers. Sometimes I have to tell them, “I’ll get back to you on that,” because I do not have an immediate answer.

If you are anxious about appearing confrontational or accusatory to him, just be sure you are submissive and open to his responses. He may be defensive at first, feeling you are challenging him, but a submissive approach will work.

~Jim

Thank you Jim, you know I value your opinion. I will email him and try to give him time to ponder this. I just thought if I could get away from asking him I would because he is so busy. I will, though, email him and ask him if he would give me explanation.

It has bothered me for 3 weeks now and it seems to be a continued theme and I am starting to freeze.

Thanks again.

 

[JimB]

I hate to give away a trade secret here, but pastors are never too busy to do their job. If we can find time for power lunches, power golf, and power fishing trips we can surely find time to answer the troubling questions of those who provide for our power lunches/golf/fishing.

~Jim

 

[NewSong]

I hate to give away a trade secret here, but pastors are never too busy to do their job. If we can find time for power lunches, power golf, and power fishing trips we can surely find time to answer the troubling questions of those who provide for our power luunches/golf/fishing.

~Jim

Thanks Jim~ I am from such a large church that I figure the amount of people that want to talk to him are very large. I did email him just now though. That was he can do it at his convenience and I know what I have said was said in a way that should not reflect disrespect nor tear anything apart that he has shared with us. We have an associate pastor but I already heard his take on it and that is your going to hell. I think our life group went down after that.

 

[ub4me]

My pastor keeps preaching on this and I am struggling with what he is saying and perhaps someone could help. It would appear to be perfectly simple to comprehend but I get stuck in certain situations where if we are saved by grace and all things pass away and all things become new and then there are people who do not have complete victory over some things then these people would not see the kingdom of God based on these scriptures below. So my question is, if they can't deliver themself and they are in bondage then how are they going to see the kingdom of God?

Revelation 21:7-8
7He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

To me it means...the one who overcometh is the one who believes the purpose of the cross...acknowledging God and our need for Him..and Trusting in His word that he paid the price for all those mentioned in the next verse.

note the next verse...includes the unbelievers... it is the unbelievers who have not accepted God...His forgivness, His grace and mercy.you can't inheirit that which you don't believe is yours.


anyway i would still ask your Pastor...this is just my take on it...

PS
I love you!!!

 

[JimB]

Actually, the larger the church the more full-time staff, and therefore the more discretionary time the pastor has. After all, it’s the pastors of the megachurches that find the time to write books (and some of them even have others write them for them). So, the idea that the pastor of a large church is too busy is really only an illusion.

But you’ll never know if you don’t try.

~Jim

 

[OXEN]

Hi New Song, yes it can be very confusing if only we knew all the answers! I know someone who does and it is best to ask Him.
Ask Him to give you visions and dreams even to talk to you lead you to all truth.
Jn 8:31-32 "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free"
Rev 21:8 says that all these mentioned will be in the fiery lake of burning sulphur - the second death.
If you take a look at Rev 22:15 Jesus says that these (the dogs) will be outside the gates the ones He does not mention are the unbelievers, the vile and the cowards. We need to know just what these ones are and what exactly are the sexually immoral etc.
Do you happen to know the direct command from the Father to the disciples of Jesus?

 

[Lpe04]

I believe that the book of Revelation (along with other Christians who are well familiar with the Word of God) is written to a future dispensation, those who will be in the Tribulation who are still around while all those things in the Book of Revelation are happening and unfolding on the earth. We are in the age of Grace, we are the Church of God, addressed in Paul's letters to us, known as the Epistles (Romans-Philemon) . We are saved by grace as the Word of God clearly teaches us. If he is not teaching this, then he should not be a pastor teaching God's Word. Rather than listening to what he is teaching, I highly recommend you read and study Paul's letters to us, the Church of God, mainly Romans through 1 Thessalonians (the rest are written mainly to Church leaders, but are still profitable for all). Also, I love to read the Gospel of John and the book of Acts. I believe that whole section (Gospel of John, Acts, and Church Epistles) is where we are at right now, and these are all addressed to us as children of God. Although the Book of Acts is more church history, it still reveals to us alot about the age in which we now live, and introduces to us the Holy Spirit of Promise, and the power of the Holy Spirit. I love these verses from Acts:


He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” Acts 16:30-31a


“All the prophets testify about Him (Jesus Christ) that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.” Acts 10:43


“Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses” Acts 13:39


“He made no distinction between us and them, for He purified their hearts by faith. We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” Acts 15:11


“I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.” Acts 26:17b-18


God Bless

 

[Strong in Him]

I hate to give away a trade secret here, but pastors are never too busy to do their job. If we can find time for power lunches, power golf, and power fishing trips we can surely find time to answer the troubling questions of those who provide for our power lunches/golf/fishing.

Great! I can never be a Pastor - I don't like golf or fishing. Good excuse.

 

[luvinjesus111]

On my way back from lunch just now I had a revalation praise God, he that overcomes is he that does not turn his back on God. And as for all of the sins listed in verse 8 IMO, born again you should not be practicing these things Key word ( practicing )

 

[NewSong]

It would probably be a good thing if you went to your pastor and explained this to him personally. I love it when my Sunday lessons stir people to think and I keep the door open to those who want answers. Sometimes I have to tell them, “I’ll get back to you on that,” because I do not have an immediate answer.

If you are anxious about appearing confrontational or accusatory to him, just be sure you are submissive and open to his responses. He may be defensive at first, feeling you are challenging him, but a submissive approach will work.

~Jim

This is what my pastor e-mailed me back and I love the explanation.

These terms, "fearful, etc." refer to what these people are in essence and nature, what their natural inclinations and actions are. We who are children by adoption and new nature may miss the mark now and then, but it is not our nature or our desire to live in these ways. If the sum total of our desires was "abominable, etc.' then we would not be "new creatures". "New" does not mean cleaned up to look good. It refers to a complete work of the Spirit in the inward parts and a justification at the bench of justice in the heavenlies from which we go free to live unto Him, not primarily unto ourselves. Following Him- P.M.

 

[Andry]

Revelation 21:8
8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Great Scripture and explanation from your pastor Newsong.

Notice fearful is first, before fornicators......it's the verse I use for "Christians" who point out the wickedness of homosexuals.

Back to the OP.

 

[JimB]

This is what my pastor e-mailed me back and I love the explanation.

These terms, "fearful, etc." refer to what these people are in essence and nature, what their natural inclinations and actions are. We who are children by adoption and new nature may miss the mark now and then, but it is not our nature or our desire to live in these ways. If the sum total of our desires was "abominable, etc.' then we would not be "new creatures". "New" does not mean cleaned up to look good. It refers to a complete work of the Spirit in the inward parts and a justification at the bench of justice in the heavenlies from which we go free to live unto Him, not primarily unto ourselves. Following Him- P.M.

See. It all worked out. Pastors are really great people.
No Kidding.
~Jim

 

[NewSong]

See. It all worked out. Pastors are really great people.
No Kidding.
~Jim

And I just thought it was my dad that was the best. Your right Jim, you pastors aren't so bad.

Thanks