Question about soldiership

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

I realise that my post could ALMOST be considered blasphemous within traditional SA circles, so I'm treading very carefully.

Up until this morning I believed that soldiership was meant to be a vehicle towards the more 'human welfare' side of the SA - hence my interest being in possibly taking this avenue in my corps.

However, i was told that it has more to do with evangelism, rather than the welfare side of things.

This is my confusion. Jesus commanded every Christian to go out and preach the gospel and disciple - ie. evangelism.

Therefore, I hope my confusion is understandable in regards to why we need a 'title' in church in order to do this.

I figured it would be something 'more' than just what we as Christians are called to do as part of our daily lives. At least that was my understanding of my acceptance of Jesus Christ.

I'm just wondering why, if soldiership is all to do with evangelism, why we need soldiership at all, considering it's what we all should be doing?

I'm sorry if I sound rude, I'm not trying to be - I just don't understand.

Sasch

 

[Andy Broadley]

I see what you are saying, and I suspect that a couple of my posts may have either caused or added to your confusion in this area.
So I'll try and explain what I meant and see if that helps.

If it makes it worse and you end up even more confused, then please accept my apologies in advance.

First of all this is only a personal view, not the official Army. I hope Abiel will be ablr to give us that.

My understanding of soldiership is that it is similer to confirmation in the C of E and RCC churches. It signifies that the person has made a committment to be a part of that church and supports it's doctrine. (I may have owrded that wrong but I hope you get my meaning).
The uniform element came from George Scott Railton and reflects the fact that the Army has always been a very visible church.

Booth founded the Army to win souls for Jesus.

Period.

However, he recognised that social welfare and eveangelism had to go hand in hand. As he said.

“But what is the use of preaching the Gospel to men whose whole attention is concentrated upon a mad, desperate struggle to keep themselves alive?”

So we have to have social welfare if we are to communicate the Gospel to those in our society who are at the bottom of the poile, so to speak.
But social welfare on it's own is not what the Army is about. Booth again....

“To get a man soundly saved it is not enough to put on him a pair of new breeches, to give him regular work, or even to give him a University education. These things are all outside a man, and if the inside remains unchanged you have wasted your labor. You must in some way or other graft upon the man's nature a new nature, which has in it the element of the Divine.”

So the primary objective of soldiers is to win souls for Jesus. To do that we need our soldiers out there eveangelising and we need our soldiers out there meeting physical need as well.

So Sascha, if you feel that God has called you to be a soldier and to work for His Kingdom in the field of social welfare, then go for it. It is every bit as important as evengelism. The one cannot succedd without the other.
And by being involved in 'Field' work as the Army used to call it, you ARE evangelising. How many people in our corps have come to know Christ through the social welfare work of the Army?

God gives each of us different skills and talents. To some He gives the ability to preach and communicate the Gospel (rather badly in my case), while to others He gives the skills needed to care for the broken and disenfrachised in society.

Your posts suggest to me that you feel your calling lies with human welfare. Halelujah sister, go for it.

Hope that helps a bit.

Sorry it was a bit long winded

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Ok, another question

You shared that Soldiership is like confirmation. I actually thought becoming an Adherent was like that - hence me being an Adherent.

I guess I'm just confused, as AFAIK when you commit your life to Christ, you're then 'signing' up to be a witness to the world (evangelism), as that's what Christ asked us all to do.

I'm just wondering then, if soldiership is to be declaring you will evangelise - isn't it then the same as just declaring yourself as a Christian?

Maybe Soldiership is the 'SA' equivalent of baptism? (I'm just thinking this out here, bear with me) However, my DH believes that his adherency is equivalent to that (being a public declaration of his commitment to Christ, and the SA).

Sorry - I'm just very confused at the moment! I just wonder what this means, considering what it appears Soldiers are supposed to be doing with that title, is what we are ALL called to do as Christians.

Sasch

 

[Andy Broadley]

Ok, another question

You shared that Soldiership is like confirmation. I actually thought becoming an Adherent was like that - hence me being an Adherent.

I guess I'm just confused, as AFAIK when you commit your life to Christ, you're then 'signing' up to be a witness to the world (evangelism), as that's what Christ asked us all to do.

I'm just wondering then, if soldiership is to be declaring you will evangelise - isn't it then the same as just declaring yourself as a Christian?

Maybe Soldiership is the 'SA' equivalent of baptism? (I'm just thinking this out here, bear with me) However, my DH believes that his adherency is equivalent to that (being a public declaration of his commitment to Christ, and the SA).

Sorry - I'm just very confused at the moment! I just wonder what this means, considering what it appears Soldiers are supposed to be doing with that title, is what we are ALL called to do as Christians.

Sasch

Sasha. It's 11pm now and my brain aint too good, so I'm gonna have to think about this and get back to you. Otherwise I'll end up adding to the confusion and I don't want to do that.

 

[Andy Broadley]

Hopefully Abiel will be around in the morning and she can give you a proper answer.

 

[TheDag]

You shared that Soldiership is like confirmation. I actually thought becoming an Adherent was like that - hence me being an Adherent.

I think that adherency and soldiership in the salvos is something unique in christian circles and not really an equivalent of anything. I have heard it said that when you become a soldier then you are declaring that you are willing to get involved at some point in the social work of the salvos. As a christian you should use every opportunity you can so as a christian helping with this social work then you should take the chance to evangelise. The main thing really though is that if your corps explained that adherency means something in particular and you became an adherant as a result then that is what it should mean to you regardless of how other corps view it. Ideally it should be viewed the same the world over but I have a feeling in practice it isn't.

I'm just wondering then, if soldiership is to be declaring you will evangelise - isn't it then the same as just declaring yourself as a Christian?

I have done the soldiership course but personally see no reason to become a soldier unless God deecides to smack me over the head (hmmm maybe thats what happened at work the other night! ) . So in a way yes I can agree with this. In the eyes of the world those christians who are highly visible are not allowed to do any wrong. In a way when you become a soldier you agree to certain lifestyle changes as well which have nothing to do with being a christian or not but in the eyes of some non-christians then things like drinking alcohol shouldn't be done. Because as a soldier you are a highly visible witness then you not only need to do the right thing but also need to be seen to be doing the right thing.

Maybe Soldiership is the 'SA' equivalent of baptism? (I'm just thinking this out here, bear with me) However, my DH believes that his adherency is equivalent to that (being a public declaration of his commitment to Christ, and the SA).

Ok knowing a bit of your background and you husband's (i come from the same background as him too) I can understand why you would view these things differently and the way you do. It really all comes back to how you were taught when younger. Just to throw another thought into the mix. I see the child dedication the salvos have as basically the same as baptism in Lutheran church and confirmation in the lutheran church is basically the same as baptism in a baptist church. Sure there are some differences but they more or less are the same.

 

[InTheFlame]

I see soldiership as being a half-way point between confirmation/membership in most churches, and ordination. It's a commitment to become involved in the running of the church - eg. worship leader, preaching, music team, sound desk, outreach events. To take on some of the duties that in some churches are left to the minister, elders or the 'very committed'. I think I agree with Andy that it's also a commitment to evangelism... and I believe that involvement in community welfare is one of the best forms of evangelism. Especially when you have an 'in uniform' attitude AFTER work... which often seems to be where the 'God' conversations take place.

 

[Abiel]

Soldiership is simply a response to God's call. It comes with a set of O+Rs and a public declaration. Because the Army firmly believes in the ministry of all believers, uniform is available to all who feel called, not just officers. It's an outward sign of something going on inside. If we wear our uniforms out and about, yes it is a witness to who were are and who we represent in the world. And yes, when out and about in uniform opportunities to help people are often multipled because people see the clobber and believe that here is a person who can help. We are soldiers because that is what God has asked of us. Some of us take that further into ministry avenues, others happily fill the ranks.

Up until very recently there was no actual requirement for a person to be a professing Christian before becoming an adherant. That changed about 2 years ago.

Once upon a time all kinds of privileges were associated with soldiership- banding, songsters etc. Nowadays that is less and less the case. In the end, it's between the believer and God. Only you can decide if it is His will for you, and if He then is goignt o want more of you eg to work for the Army maybe in officership.

http://www2.salvationarmy.org.uk/uki/www_uki.nsf/vw-dynamic-arrays/A434022706DA41D880256F1900491708?openDocument


http://www2.salvationarmy.org.uk/uki/www_uki.nsf/vw-dynamic-arrays/1AC234D6626D46EE80256FDC0058DC3F?openDocument

 

[Andy Broadley]

Soldiership is simply a response to God's call. It comes with a set of O+Rs and a public declaration. Because the Army firmly believes in the ministry of all believers, uniform is available to all who feel called, not just officers. It's an outward sign of something going on inside. If we wear our uniforms out and about, yes it is a witness to who were are and who we represent in the world. And yes, when out and about in uniform opportunities to help people are often multipled because people see the clobber and believe that here is a person who can help. We are soldiers because that is what God has asked of us. Some of us take that further into ministry avenues, others happily fill the ranks.

Up until very recently there was no actual requirement for a person to be a professing Christian before becoming an adherant. That changed about 2 years ago.

Once upon a time all kinds of privileges were associated with soldiership- banding, songsters etc. Nowadays that is less and less the case. In the end, it's between the believer and God. Only you can decide if it is His will for you, and if He then is goignt o want more of you eg to work for the Army maybe in officership.

http://www2.salvationarmy.org.uk/uki/www_uki.nsf/vw-dynamic-arrays/A434022706DA41D880256F1900491708?openDocument


http://www2.salvationarmy.org.uk/uki/www_uki.nsf/vw-dynamic-arrays/1AC234D6626D46EE80256FDC0058DC3F?openDocument

What she said

 

[Gwen'sMom]

Abiel, if all I can think about is serving God as a soldier is that one way I know it's his will? I have read everything I can about becoming a soldier and the beliefs of the SA. I have thought about it off and on (stronger as time went on) for the last 5 years or so. I agree with them and all of the beliefs. I am happily willing to spread the word of God and to help on the "human welfare" side of things. That is what originally attracted me to the SA. Is this weird even though I haven't gone to the SA on a regular basis? I'm sorry to be such a pain!!!

 

[Abiel]

Abiel, if all I can think about is serving God as a soldier is that one way I know it's his will?

Short of whistles, bells and sirens, I can't think of any other way God would reveal His will on this matter! For me is was a nagging feeling that didn't go away until I did something about it.

 

[Abiel]

...and it is never a pain to chat with folk on CF!

 

[Gwen'sMom]

...and it is never a pain to chat with folk on CF!

No it's not! I have really been enjoying myself here with you all. I am going to ask to speak to the Captain.

 

[Andy Broadley]

No it's not! I have really been enjoying myself here with you all. I am going to ask to speak to the Captain.

#

Halelujah!!!!

 

[TheDag]

Ok abiel you seem to be the person who can answer the questions others can't (are you feeling pressured now!) so I've got a question that in regards to soldiership that nobody has been able to find an answer for. They have all in the end said well this is my opinion. In the book Battle Orders by Major Chuck Yuiil which is supposed to be a brief version of the soldiers O&R's it says that a soldier will go to a salvation army church. Do you know of anything that clarifies that further? The way I read it it means if you are a soldier you will go to a salvation army church regardless. Others say it means if possible you'll go to a salvation army church. Do you know of any writing that might clarify the matter. When I did soldiership classes they were not aware of anything that might actually clarify it.

 

[Andy Broadley]

I can't see the point of being a soldier and NOT attending Salvation Army worship.

I meran, theres nothing wrong with visiting other churches, but it's reasonable to assume that a soldier will attend Army worship on as regular a basis as is possible.

 

[Abiel]

Ok abiel you seem to be the person who can answer the questions others can't (are you feeling pressured now!) so I've got a question that in regards to soldiership that nobody has been able to find an answer for. They have all in the end said well this is my opinion. In the book Battle Orders by Major Chuck Yuiil which is supposed to be a brief version of the soldiers O&R's it says that a soldier will go to a salvation army church. Do you know of anything that clarifies that further? The way I read it it means if you are a soldier you will go to a salvation army church regardless. Others say it means if possible you'll go to a salvation army church. Do you know of any writing that might clarify the matter. When I did soldiership classes they were not aware of anything that might actually clarify it.

hmm. Never really thought about it! I know of no 'rule' that says you have to go to the Army to the exclusion of any other church, but I do know that a soldier can be taken off the role for non-attendance (which would be a long term thing- we have 2 soldiers on our role who have been sulking for 6 years and have yet to be removed, because they still give financially)

In short, there is no such rule, but there is a generl understaning that members of a church tend to go to that church...

What a vague non-answer that is!

 

[Andy Broadley]

As I recall, I was removed after about 3 years.

 

[TheDag]

I can't see the point of being a soldier and NOT attending Salvation Army worship.

I meran, theres nothing wrong with visiting other churches, but it's reasonable to assume that a soldier will attend Army worship on as regular a basis as is possible.

The reason I ask is that in some areas in Australia you may not be near a salvation army church. Now the way I read it it means you have to drive for hours if need be to get to a salvo church. So what I would say is that if I was to become a soldier then I might be making a promise I that I may not have the power to keep (if God sends me to a rural area of Oz). Certainly if you live near a salvo church then yes it would make sense to go if your a soldier. My corps leader interprets it as saying if possible you'll go to a salvo church otherwise any old church will do. If that is correct then really what difference is there for an adherant or someone like me who is neather an adherant or soldier? There really is no difference between me and a soldier in that regards. After all I've made a commitment to the corps in other ways and my wife is a soldier and is passionate about the salvos so that also makes it a commitment for me to go there.

 

[Abiel]

I would no more expect some one who can't attend due to distance to be prevented from being a soldier than I would an elderly house bound person.

And the difference between soldiers adherants and friends does not lie in these factors imo. It lies in what God calls us to. If God called an Aussie to soldiership, then sent them to the middle of nowhere, then maybe it would be as a soldier of the SA. Sure another church might need to be attended- o for the olden days! When a soldier in that situaltion would just be able to get on and set up a new Corps!