Question about Magic?

[Avenged Sevenfold]

Can Christians learn Magic? say like Slight of Hand, Making things dissapear ect? if not why? cant this be used to glorify God? what do you all think?

 

[klewlis]

If you mean magic as in illusions and card tricks, that sort of thing, then I don't see a problem with it. (And from your post I think this is what you mean.)

But if you mean magick as in spells and witchcraft, then that is definitely an area that Christians should not be in.

 

[Avenged Sevenfold]

If you mean magic as in illusions and card tricks, that sort of thing, then I don't see a problem with it. (And from your post I think this is what you mean.)

But if you mean magick as in spells and witchcraft, then that is definitely an area that Christians should not be in.

Yea like slight of hand with balls, cards, coins ect I really want to learn but did not know if I could.

 

[Underdog77]

Its to do tricks and 'magic' and can be used for God. But make sure that everyone watching knows they are tricks and slight of hand and all that. If you do these tricks and stuff and make you audience believe that it truly is magic and that you have this cool power, then you are decieving them. But if everyone knows they are just cool tricks then it can be a tool used for God.

 

[BarbB]

Just last winter, an evangelizing illusionist performed at my church! It can be a great tool!

 

[Jesus_help_me]

yea card tricks and all that is alright but not black magic for in the bible god says he does not want us messing with that stuff but we should glorify him and live for him.

 

[Serapha]

Can Christians learn Magic? say like Slight of Hand, Making things dissapear ect? if not why? cant this be used to glorify God? what do you all think?

Hi there!




Remember, in addition to what everyone else has told you....


We are not to do anything that might cause another to stumble... and you need to insure that you are not deceiving anyone into thinking it is anything "magical".


Should you have a young audience that cannot "differentiate" between "slight of hand" and "magic".... and they begin to view the "magic" as something good.... you have caused another to stumble... it's a fine line to draw but insure that is where God is leading you first and foremost.


~serapha~

 

[Marth]

Magick of the illusinary type is just fine. As far as magick goes, a good person to ask would be onikirimaru777 (on this site) he used to study things like that.

 

[TriptychR]

I remember watching members of the JIM (Jesus is Mine) club perform illusions that they tied to Biblical messages. It was quite effective.

 

[Jinn_Ku]

Look into the life of Andre Kole. He's a world famous illusionist who has been a consultant to David Copperfield. I saw him a few years ago, and he said he finally was able to do a trick that allowed him to walk on water. As he said, it was a very controlled environment, and took over a million dollars of state-of-the-art equipment. Things Jesus did not have. It was quite a show.

 

[The Midge]

The magic to be aware of is the kind that craws supernatural power from anything that is not God. Teh type of stage show that uses illusions is OK- a great tool because it reminds us that we can not trust our perceptions. I would not dress it up as occult in anyway.

 

[JMJ]

Witchcraft, sorcery, etc., are condemned without qualification in both the Old and New Testaments.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14 - Every aspect of the occult is here mentioned specifically. It is all an "abomination" and is forbidden. Specifically forbidden are: one who practices "witchcraft" and a "sorcerer" and "one who conjures spells" and a "spiritist."

Leviticus 19:31 - Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus 20:6 - And the person who turns after mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.

Leviticus 20:27 - A man or a woman who is a medium, or who has familiar spirits, shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with stones. Their blood shall be upon them.

Revelation 21:8 - But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Revelation 22:15 - But outside [heaven] are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Acts 13:8-10 - Paul rebuked Elymas the sorcerer who was trying to keep Sergius Paulus from accepting the truth. He said to him: "O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?"

Hence, the Bible does not distinguish whether the witchcraft is intended to achieve a goal which is good or one which does harm. It is all inherently wrong because it is an appeal to a forbidden source of power.

[2 Chron. 33:6; 2 Kings 9:22; Ex. 22:18; 1 Sam. 15:23; Mic. 5:12; Nah. 3:4; Jer. 27:9; Mal. 3:5; Isa. 2:6; 2 Kings. 21:6; 23:24; Isa. 19:3]

Specific powers of witchcraft and sorcery are named and condemned.

Exodus 7:11,22; 8:7 - When Moses & Aaron brought plagues on Egypt, Pharaoh's magicians attempted to duplicate the miracles by their "enchantments." "Enchantments" refers to the ceremonies and rituals used by sorcerers and magicians to accomplish their ends - incantations, spells, and magic words ("hocus-pocus"), wearing of charms (amulets).

Deuteronomy 18:10 mentions various of these "enchantments" as part of that which is forbidden.

Isaiah 8:19,20 - And when they say to you, "Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter," should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living? To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, {it is} because there is no light in them.

"Whisper and mutter" refers to the incantations and spells of magicians. These words are supposed to give the user control over the spirit beings that work the result desired. If you know the words, you control the spirit to do your bidding.

Galatians 5:20,21 - Those who will not inherit the kingdom of God includes those who practice "sorcery" ("witchcraft" - KJV). This includes the occult in general, but refers esp. to the use of drugs and potions brewed by witches in their cauldrons, etc. (Movies and books often refer to the witches' book of spells, and recipes for potions, etc.)

God condemns, not just the whole practice of the occult, but also the specific methods, rituals, and mumbo-jumbo words used.

[Lev. 19:26; 2 Kings 17:17; Isa. 47:9,12; Jer. 27:9; 2 Kings 21:6; 2 Chron. 33:6; Isa. 3:20; Rev. 9:21]

Witches & sorcerers cannot duplicate the powers & miracles God did through inspired men.

The Bible often warns about the danger of being deceived by lying wonders [2 Thess. 2:9; Matt. 24:24; Deut. 13:1-5]. The examples given in Scripture often involved confrontations between those who did true miracles from God and those who practiced forms of sorcery or magic:

Exodus 7-9; read 8:18,19 - Pharaoh's magicians and sorcerers tried to duplicate the signs and plagues God caused through Moses and Aaron (7:11,22; 8:7,8,18; 9:11). For awhile they seemed to succeed to a limited extent. But soon they failed and admitted Moses had the power of GOD.

Daniel 1:20 - And in all matters of wisdom and understanding about which the king examined them, he found them [Daniel and his friends] ten times better than all the magicians {and} astrologers who {were} in all his realm.

Daniel 2:1-13,27,28 - The king of Babylon sought magicians to tell him his dream and interpret it. None could. But by the power of God, Daniel interpreted the dream accurately [cf. 4:7,9]. Later he likewise interpreted the handwriting on the wall which predicted the downfall of Belshazzar (5:7,11). [Cf. Gen. 41:8,24]

Acts 8:9-13 - Simon used sorcery to amaze the Samaritans. They believed he had the great power of God. But when Philip preached Jesus and did true miracles by the power of God, not only the people but also Simon himself believed [cf. v5-7].

Acts 13:6-11 - Elymas was a sorcerer, but he was powerless to resist the superior power God worked through Paul.

I do not know whether the power of sorcerers can be explained through trickery, which pretends supernatural power but can really be explained naturally, or whether Satan really does possess some supernatural power. But what is sure is that Satan can never duplicate God's true miracles. By comparing modern sorcery to the miracles of the Bible, we have proof witchcraft is inferior, so we should not put our faith in it.

Witchcraft, magic, etc., is the occult substitute for Bible miracles. Where God has done miracles for His people, believers in the occult seek their supernatural works by means of spells, incantations, etc. that appeal to their spirit powers. God forbids all such because it is an appeal to powers other than His power. God will never allow that which is false to duplicate the works of that which is true.

[Isa. 47:9,12-14; 1 Kings 18; Acts 16:16; 19:13ff]

 

[prestonw]

Can Christians learn Magic? say like Slight of Hand, Making things dissapear ect? if not why? cant this be used to glorify God? what do you all think?

The pastor of my church when I was a kid did some magic tricks with cards and balls and such. He used these to get the kids interested in the Biblical stories he was telling and used the tricks to illustrate key points. I believe in these case they were definatly used to glorify God. In other contexts, they are simply a form of entertainment and I believe there is nothing wrong at all with them.

 

[TheMainException]

Dude, it's not real magic, like making someone fall in love with you by using a potion from worshiping Satan...it's the slight of hand, a little trick like doing a wheely on your bike...sure, go ahead...

 

[pgp_protector]

Good book (Dont Rember Who Wrote it though) Christan Magic (For magicians) also there is FCM (Frat Christan Magicians) the book explains how to convert standard illusions (Like Professors Nightmare) to a Gospal Message.

 

[Love&Pain]

No.

"Let no one be found among you who...casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) but if you are talking about card tricks or something else I think christians can do it. Why not?

 

[pgp_protector]

Should a Christian Do Magic or Conjuring?

Doesn't the Bible forbid magic, fortune-telling and ventriloquism? Is it right for a Christian to be involved in sleight of hand and illusion--aren't these instruments dishonest and deceptive?
A Problem of Vocabulary

First, let's get our terms defined. When the Bible (especially certain translations) uses the term "magic" (e.g. Exodus 22:14) or "sorcery" (Deuteronomy 18:11 et al.) or "ventriloquism" (e.g. Isaiah 8:19), it is clearly dealing with man's involvement in the supernatural, often with the collaboration of evil spirits. The context of the Bible prohibitions make it clear that God does not want man to dabble in games with the devil. Today's manifestations of these forbidden activities are such things as ouija boards, tarot cards, the occult and horoscopes. The Christian has no business playing with these, since they open the door to demonic influence.

Let it be emphasized that no true Christian magician or ventriloquist is in any way involved in the use of supernatural powers.

A problem rises from the fact that certain words have two meanings. "Magic" has the meaning of witchcraft or sorcery, but the word also means sleight of hand and illusion, the surprising and fascinating modern entertainment medium. Obviously the Bible is talking about the first of these meanings and not the second.

Etymologically, the word "ventriloquism" means "belly-talking." As used in the Old Testament, the word refers to fortune telling by means of reading the entrails of slain animals, or demon possession, wherein an evil spirit spoke through a human mouthpiece. Modern ventriloquists create the illusion that their voices come from another source, using this to entertain. Spectators unable to explain this skill misnamed the illusion "belly talking." Again, the Biblical prohibition has reference to one meaning of this word, but not the animation of puppets as is done in the modern entertainment medium. The first thing we must be sure of when dealing with Biblical prohibitions is that we understand what the Bible is in fact saying, so that we do not misapply the truth because of a confusion in vocabulary.
Confusion with the Supernatural

One could raise the objection that it is wrong for the Christian to do any performance that could so easily be misinterpreted as sinful by someone who doesn't know. Doesn't the Bible warn us to "avoid all appearance of evil"? (I Thessalonians 5:22) Couldn't innocent parlor magic or ventriloquism be easily confused with forbidden activity?

In fact, a better translation of I Thessalonians 5:22 is "avoid every form of evil" or "avoid every kind of evil." In dealing with right and wrong, one must always be careful of appearances, but it is not the appearance that makes something right or wrong. The emphasis on appearance is the essence of hypocrisy. If the issue were that Christians are to refrain from doing anything that looks like sin or could be misinterpreted by someone who does not know, then we would never be able to do anything with confidence. According to this thinking, Jesus was correctly rebuked for eating with publicans, for forgiving prostitutes and for touching lepers. Certainly these actions confused many people, but the Son of God knew His mission and performed His ministry in spite of possible objections.

The Gospel magician could easily be confused with the secular entertainer, or worse, with the occultist, just as the Christian singer could be identified with the acid-dropping Satanist, or the preacher could be linked with the immoral talk-show host. Or we could insist that it is wrong for the Christian to read any magazine or paperback book, because immoral people publish sinful books and magazines. Do we believe that because of the sin of some broadcasters, there is no value in the ministry of broadcasting? Part of the issue is whether a godly performer should stop ministry he knows to be right, just because someone else might misjudge his motives or his methods.

Some Christians are very superstitious and assume that anything they cannot themselves understand and explain must be supernatural. Hence they see negative effects as being produced by demons, and every positive event must be a miracle of God. There is, however, great room for neutral events which can be used either for good or for evil.
Ministry by means of "Deception"?

Another objection is that it is not right for the Christian to use trickery in presenting the truth. No matter how you slice it, magic involves deceit (illusion). Of course some "Gospel magicians" try to get around this objection by never actually saying their hand is empty when it isn't, but they say, "my hand looks empty." This skirts the issue, since the intent is for the audience to believe that the hand was empty (or that the bunny materialized from thin air, or that the red scarf actually turned white, etc.) The deceit was there, regardless of whether the performer told a lie with his words or with his actions.

Here we must deal with the nature of truth. At any given time, a presentation of truth only represents a portion of reality. I carry a photograph of my wife that everyone claims is a very candid likeness, yet it deceives in certain ways. For one thing, my wife is not black and white and gray; for another, she is more than two inches tall and is not flat. But the image abstracted by this photograph captures her expression and personality very honestly. It is an honest--though partial--representation of the truth. The issue is whether the Gospel magician conveys the impression that he is doing supernatural things, or whether he honestly acknowledges its trickery.

After all is said and done, most people acknowledge that magical entertainers do not actually have supernatural powers. If the total presentation is an accurate representation of Biblical truth, the audience will be impressed with the message, and not dazzled by the possibility of humans doing superhuman feats.
A Biblical Basis for Gospel Magic

It is fine to say that doing Gospel magic is not wrong, but is it right? Is there a Biblical justification for using magic to present Scriptural or spiritual truths?

The first part of the argument comes from Jesus' own use of parables--visual aids. Matthew 13:34 indicates that in Jesus' teaching, He always used object lessons. Sleight of hand and illusion provide a way of presenting some very powerful spiritual messages in a visual way. When a dirty handkerchief--representing sin--is transformed into an egg, it makes a very striking illustration of the change God makes in a person's life when he trusts Christ. Magic tricks have power to gain and maintain attention.

The second part of a Biblical basis for Gospel magic is God's own use of the spectacular as an attention-getting device. He could have dealt with people without using the miraculous, but with Moses He chose to use a bush that burned without being consumed, with Balaam He used a talking donkey; with Joshua He used a destructive trumpet blast to bring down the walls of Jericho, and with Belshazzar He wrote on the wall with a giant hand.

Many of the prophets used spectacular attention-getting devices, such as shaving their head, wearing a rotten garment, making a model of Jerusalem. And what a sight Jonah must have been, bleached from the digestive juices of the great sea monster, as he paraded through Nineveh proclaiming the judgment of God.

But perhaps most spectacular of all are the descriptions of the events surrounding the death and resurrection of Jesus. It could have happened without a lot of fanfare, but Christs death was accompanied by darkness and earthquake. The resurrection was accompanied by a blast of light that left the guards stunned and dazed.

I have seen some very impressive and effective use of "magic" to illustrate principles from the Scripture. When sleight of hand and illusion are harnessed for the purpose of explaining Gospel principles, it can be very powerful from a psychological point of view.
Performance Leads to Pride

A serious objection is that when people are amazed and admire the performer, this leads to pride on his part. This is certainly a possibility, and the Christian performer (no matter what art form) must guard against pride. This is true of the Christian singer, actor, magician, ventriloquist--and even preacher! Let us condemn pride in any form and in every presentation, but the possibility of pride should not deter from the exercise of a skill that can point people to God's truth and lead them to Christ.
Conclusion

To wind up this brief treatment, let me make several practical suggestions about your own attitude towards "Gospel magic;"

1. Enjoy "magic" presentations. Don't worry about being fooled. You don't need to understand how every trick is done in order for it to be all right.
2. Pray for the Christian magician. He wants to present Gospel truths in an effective way, without violating what is proper. It is easy to give in to the sins of pride and presumption. He needs your understanding and support. Praise God that He has given this performer opportunities to present a message at places where a preacher would never be able to speak.
3. Seek God's mind. Be sympathetic and ask God to help you understand what attitude is right to have towards forms of ministry that you do not wholeheartedly understand or endorse. Realize that the same skill may not be best for everyone, but God can bless it and use it for His glory.
4. If you continue to have reservations, work them out. Talk to your local Christian magician. He will be happy to discuss them with you!

Thanks for being open to consider some new ideas. I hope they have helped you to gain a new perspective. Read Acts 10:9-20 and rejoice that God opens the hearts and minds of His children who are ready to receive His messages.

"Whatever you do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks [and honor and glory] through Him to God the Father." Colossians 3:17
© 1988 by Robert H. Hill

This article may be freely copied and distributed provided that it is done so in its entirety and without charge.

You can correspond with the author, Robert Hill, at 100551.3573@Compuserve.com.

From the Fellowship of Christian Magicians, Good read