Question about Imminency.

[Jazer]

I agree, it WILL be blessing.

Not for those left behind. They will have all the teaching but they will never know their teacher. They will not be able to ask any questions.

 

[realtruth101]

You seem to be able to read the simple and plainly written scriptures on the subject and can grasp the basic hermeneutical approach to reading the bible. I am beside myself in bewilderment when I see Christians grasping at obscure and vague passages to build their doctrine on, leaving the plainly written and relevant ones that clearly talk about the event in question. some seem to believe most of new testiment wasn't even written for them, but merly transcripted for those who are left behind. I can see no other reason for telling what would happen in the future, if we were not even there to see it......why does Christ warn the readers "WHEN YOU SEE........Mathew 24:15 is Jesus decieving you, telling you to look for something, that will happen while your already with Him......I don't think so.....I think the word of God is true when it tells of those who would infiltrate the ranks and begin to teach false doctrine (Most unknowingly) (most very sincere) yet false teaching is what it is, false teaching, and the simple fact remains one side of this arguement is false and the other is true. you are either standing for truth or a lie. I hope each person understands the gravity of what they put forth as the truth as it will have consequences in the end. Personally I think, at this time in history the pre-trib theory is not so much a salvation issue, as it will be down the road. Just as false doctrine slowly entered the Roman Catholic church, each time a little more bad doctrine was introduced the people who knew better thought well its a strange teaching but I'm sure its not a salvational issue. And over time false teaching and doctrine grew. Ask yourself does false doctrine grow, and if it grows which way do you think it leads, If it is Truth it will lead to Jesus, if its false it will lead to destruction. How do you think believers in the future will react when all their lives they are taught Jesus comes first, then the antichrist, more and more Christians rarely open and read their bibles, when the antichrist enters the picture most "Christians" will think their messiah has come..............Don't let anyone deceive you for that day will not come until the lawless one is revealed!

 

[SeekingTheKingdom]

WOW that is AMAZING. The falling away is the apostasy (apostasia).
Your statement that the rapture is the apostasy is coming from the apostate people.

But there is a temple mount and all they need is a tent. The Sanhedrin is ready to go. They can start the sacrifice at any time. The Priests are trained, the vessels are prepared. They say all they need is permission from the temple mount authority.

Oh? Look, They have a reasonable facsimilie of the "third temple", a 1:1.6 (i believe) Replica of the temple, being built in the middle of the desert, its in Mitzpe Yerico, and NOT Jerusalem. Its A School, and the Temple is slightly smaller then the blueprints call for. Everythign else IS being manufactured and made, so Anyway, I dont know why you keepy saying temple mount...becasue its FAR from the MOUNT, maybe they will move this temple...maybe they will build another...but at the moment no Temple Mount anybody.

And the "apostasy people" The falling away, to you, is disagreement with waht the word apostasy means? Ok. Sure. I love you. But your wrong Sir.

Also there are people who say they are getting the temple ready to build. All the peices will be ready so they can build it in 3 1/2 years

Umm...Ok, im not here to argue.

The man of lawlessness gives permission for the sacrifices to begin. This starts the Tribulation and begins WW3. The Christians are taken out in the first nuclear exchange. The true church will be gone, but the dead, harlot, apostate church will still be here and the world will not know the difference. With the true church gone they can begin a peace treaty. The world will be desperate for an end to the destruction.

Um, Where IN scripture, does it say that the man of lawlessness gives permission for the sacrifices? The Sacrifices, are taken AWAY by him, but its never said they are PUT UP by him? Truly...Think about it, i know you want the futre to match up with Scripture...and it will...but Logicaly, WHY would this antichrist man, give permission for Sacrifices(which you say is going to be at the beginning of the 3 1/2 years...yet, at the begining of the thre and a half years, you ALSO say that the temple will be started being built. so if they start building, then there cant be a sacrifce yet. Which means That Theres somethign amiss with this logic...Truly..thnk about it)

The Apostate Church, are the ones who stop Living For Jesus. It truly doesnt matter WHAT your opinon on Prophesy is, if indeed you are giving you ALL for Christ Jesus. Denying Self daily, and Being a Living Sacrifce unto God, Then you will be WITH Jesus, when he truly comes back.(Hmmm...Daily....Living Sacrifce...Few...ok maybe thats just me)

No time has to take place between the "last trumpet" and the rapture. Paul said the trumpet will sound.

Yeha, i never said any time has to take place between the "last trumpet" and the "rapture" I said lots has to take place between now, adn the Last trumpet, Which i beleive is "The Trumpet of God", "The GREAT Trump" and The Seventh Trump from revelation. Which is when the Mystery of God is completed. They are ALL THE SAME TRUMPET. There is no Biblical Proof, that there is any other LAST TRUMPET. No where in the Scriptures can you back up that the "Last Trump" means anythign other then what the Bible specificaly says. LAST. 7th. The LAST DAY of Creation was the 7th...etc...i know some want to argue that the last day of Creation was the 6th...but no...God created the sabbath...he created REST on the 7th day. Anyway...NOWHERE can you prove to me, or yourself even, That the LAST TRUMPET is different. I reallt would want you t otry..but that would be impossible unless you go extra Bibical...Anyway...

Not for those left behind. They will have all the teaching but they will never know their teacher. They will not be able to ask any questions.

Well In that line of thinking, Those left behind will not have teacher(Who is Jesus through the Holy Spirit) All the teaching but no teacher? Then could you explain WHY there will be Saints in the Tribulation?

You Can Only be A Saint if you have the Holy Spirit, right?. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN, By SPIRIT. God wont change. So if you must be Born again, Then HOW can UN born again people, preach the gospel. ONLY those that belive in GOD will NOT take the Mark right? And there WILL be preaching of the WORD in the Trib yes? So HOW can you preach the WORD with out the SPIRIT? That cant happen. (im not yelling...hahah the Caps, are for emphasis)

Anyway, Biblicaly, you CANT Say a Rapture is Imminent, Becasue at the very LEAST, the Apostasia, needs to happen.

And you can't Go and say that The Apostasy is the Rapture, and then right after that, go and say that those of the Apostasy are the ones who dont believe that the Apostasy is the Rapture.

If the apostasy is the rapture, then the apostasy cant be a falling away from the faith. it CANT be both. Not in the context.

Paul is either saying that a Rebellion needs to happen, OR he is saying that a Rapture needs to happen. Its not a two part meaning. Not in this context, not in the way he uses the word, semantically, it wouldnt work.

So The Falling away, needs to be firmly stated as one or the other. It's either the rapture or its not. But if it IS, then you cant say that there would be a "falling away" then.

I know i just repeated myself. Anyway. It jsut boggles my mind how someone can defend a teaching that is REALLY difficult to defend with other scritpure. PLEASE tell me ho the last trumpet can be abythign ther thean what LAST means. Im not wantign to be right, im wanting to know truth. I know what i beleive God showed me, But i also could be missing something...anyway. Jesus bless you.

 

[Biblewriter]

"And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming." 1 John 2:28


Why Would John have to say, "and not shrink from him in shame at his comming", If this was a secret Pre trib sort of thing? We wouldn't have to shrink from him in shame if His comming was a Pre-trib comming. According to pretrib, we will all be instantly seized unto him into the sky. SO how would John think anyone would shrink back from him? According to Pretrib, we wont have the ability to shrink back, because anyone who does not have jesus IN them at the time...wont know that he came IN the moment.

What John is saying is, to Abide in him, Stay obedient to ALL of Christs words, so that when He DOES come in all his glory with the sword of his mouth we will not go shrink back and hide under a rock for forsaking him...

"When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory." Colossians 3:4

"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2


"In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him." 1 John 4:17

Have confidence on the Day of Judgement and NOT SHRINK BACK In Shame at His Comming.

I would call this a non-argument. When He actually comes for us, whenever that is, we will all be taken, whether we are ready for him or not. But if we are not ready, we will shrink back with shame, even as we are in his presence.