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Originally posted by GraftMeIn
dots are inanimate objects though, how can they become defensive?
Originally posted by blader
All materials contain chemicals. "Organic" materiels refers to those compounds which contain C, H, and O. Organic materials don't need "oxygen" to survive. In fact, not all organic materials are "alive." When you die, you decompose into organic materials, but you're still dead. =)
Originally posted by GraftMeIn
So there's a difference between Organic life, and Organic Chemistry?
Organic chemistry being based on carbons, How does life come about by carbons? don't carbons break down organic material? Wouldn't have life decompossed before it ever started if we only looked to carbon compounds for answers?
Originally posted by blader
4.5 billion years, give or take half a billion. Depending on who you ask, the Bible says the earth is around 5000 years old, give or take a few hundred.
A variety of minerals, water, and chemicals. There is no very first compound. Your question is like asking "what was the very first compound that formed Dodger Stadium?"
Man didn't come from an ape. Ape and man came from a common ancestor, is all. Geez.
And it's not very hard to believe that God created man from clay, because it's a very simple explanation. Also, it's not very hard to believe that Zeus makes lightning strike, either, but both of these are lazy explanations. Science tells us why lightning strikes, and science tells us where we came from. You can believe in myths if you like, but you're not going to get any closer to the truth.
Originally posted by GraftMeIn
How can there be a variety of substances if everything evolved? Everything would have to evolve from one thing.
That's not what evolution teaches, It teaches that we evolved from apes
I already know the truth. How does science explain where we came from if it can't tell me what the one thing is that everything evolved from?
Originally posted by seebs
Not an exact one, no. "billions" is pretty well supported, though. But I don't *expect* an exact answer; I've never had one before.
That would be cosmology, not biology, so most evolutionary biologists don't have an opinion. I believe the earth formed from mostly the same rocks and metals it's made of today, plus a fair bit of carbon. The earth wasn't just one compound; it was similar in a lot of ways to what it is now, matter being what it is.
but how would life be formed by chance out of those rocks, metals, and carbon?
Because if He did, then He left an awful lot of skulls of apes with gradually bigger skulls lying around over the last few million years, and a lot of other bones and fossils for things we've never seen, and that would seem more than a little weird.
Maybe the apes just died at different ages, thus giving us different sized skulls.
Most scientists start with the assumption that the correct answer to "how did this happen" is "I don't know yet". From there, you form theories, and test them, and study the things you find.
So they form theories, and try to prove those theories. doesn't the bible tell us not to rely on our own wisdom?
Essentially, I can find very good evidence (at least, I think it's pretty convincing; not everyone agrees, although I think just about all biologists do) that, in a number of cases, life forms have come about through gradual development from other life forms, often simpler ones. It is uncontroversial, in my mind, to observe that dogs and wolves are closely related, or that lions and tigers are closely related... and further out, that domestic cats and tigers probably have a common ancestor. Given that, and given the existance of other animals with substantial similaritios to humans, it seems likely to me that humans also came about by the same mechanism.
but if you believe that the bible is the word of God, and that Gods word is true, isn't saying we evolved the same as calling God a liar?
Dots are inanimate. Patterns of dots, running under a system of rules, are not inanimate.
but they aren't alive, they don't have thoughts, or emotions, they don't breath or eat anything.
That's like saying "how can a couple hundred pounds of organic compounds become defensive?". They can't - unless they're a person, who *can* become defensive.
well then how can something that evolved become defensive? If the dots evolved in a sense like you stated, and became defensive, then in reality we wouldn't have minds of our own, if we evolved.
Originally posted by GraftMeIn
Maybe the apes just died at different ages, thus giving us different sized skulls.
So they form theories, and try to prove those theories. doesn't the bible tell us not to rely on our own wisdom?
but if you believe that the bible is the word of God, and that Gods word is true, isn't saying we evolved the same as calling God a liar?
well then how can something that evolved become defensive? If the dots evolved in a sense like you stated, and became defensive, then in reality we wouldn't have minds of our own, if we evolved.
Originally posted by seebs
I think you're inadvertantly attacking a straw man. "evolution" is a theory for how, if you had little bacteria, you could eventually end up with plants, animals, and humans. It doesn't address the question of where the bacteria come from - that's abiogenesis. Abiogenesis doesn't address the question of where raw materials come from - that's cosmology.
Maybe you should consider the possibility that you're repeating lies someone told you.
Well, "hydrogen", but that's a really chintzy answer.
Science *DOESN'T* explain where we came from, not all the way back; what it does is tell us *PART* of the process.
You want a theory that tells us where we came from, all the way back to the start? There are more than a hundred creation stories on the planet. There's the Norse one (a cow licked at a salt lick until the gods came out of it), or any of a few dozen others. Greek myths? The world was made by the Titans, I believe.
Unfortunately, there's no way to tell which, if any, of them are true... unless we start studying the evidence we find lying around. That evidence happens to support the theory that life formed slowly over a long period of time from simpler life, but we don't know for sure how it got started.
However, this is still a better theory. The theory that lightning strikes you when Zeus is mad at you is a very explanatory theory, but it's useless. The theory that lightning is electricity, and conducts through copper well, allows us to avoid being killed... *EVEN* if we don't know why there's electricity in the clouds in the first place.
Science isn't about being able to *say* you know everything; it's about being sure of the claims you do make.
Originally posted by GraftMeIn
Ahhh ok, so evolution starts half way through the story and my Bible starts at the beggining.
since science has no idea where it all began, let me pose one very simple question.
What is the one element on earth, that no life can survive without?
If there wasn't water for a long time, where did it come from?
did it evolve also?
How could life have evolved without it, since every living thing needs water to survive?
Originally posted by GraftMeIn
I asked that question because seebs stated there wasn't any water on the earth for a long time. So without water on the earth where and how would of life started? and How would it be able to survive without it?
seebs said the earth was mostly made of metals, so how does life come from metal, without water? and where did the water come from if there wasn't any hydrogen or oxygen?
thus bringing be back to the beggining of the Bible...
Genesis 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
So now should we discount the fact that every living thing needs water to survive, and the fact that God created it first because it was needed in order to create life?
Should we also discount these facts?
70 to 80 percent of the earths surface is covered with water, and that new studies by scientists are showing that there may be even more water than that under it's surface.
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