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Question about evil and sin

Fortunecookie

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In the Story of Adam and Eve. God forbade them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They could separate Good from Evil already. Since they knew that eating the apple was evil. However they did not truly know evil. Since one could only know evil after eating the apple.

What exactly is sin? The evil act required to get knowledge of evil or having the knowledge of evil itself (which would spiritually defile us)?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie
 
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1watchman

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Man today is born in sin as a malady inherited from Adam & Eve (sin is self-will contrary to the Creator-God); but Adam was not knowledgeable of the fullness of sin and its power over one.

God did not create man like Angels to obey and serve the Lord, and He did not need more Angels. God wanted children to love and to return love --a choice. We are given choices.

God knew full well that the flesh of man could be corrupted, but children must choose to love God and not be made that way. God knew what Satan would do and man would fail this first test, and He already had a plan ready to redeem fallen man, which we see through the dispensations, where man has been given every opportunity to repent and return to God instead of pleasing the flesh.

The flesh will always rise in one to do its own will. In time God will quit the trials (the end of the Dispensations when the Kingdom reigns). God will then take the redeemed souls who surrendered to Him to Heaven, and the rebellious ones will perish.
 
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Joshua260

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In the Story of Adam and Eve. God forbade them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They could separate Good from Evil already. Since they knew that eating the apple was evil. However they did not truly know evil. Since one could only know evil after eating the apple.

What exactly is sin? The evil act required to get knowledge of evil or having the knowledge of evil itself (which would spiritually defile us)?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie

As I understand it, the story is more about mankind claiming a moral authority that did not rightfully belong to him.
 
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ViaCrucis

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In the Story of Adam and Eve. God forbade them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They could separate Good from Evil already. Since they knew that eating the apple was evil. However they did not truly know evil. Since one could only know evil after eating the apple.

What exactly is sin? The evil act required to get knowledge of evil or having the knowledge of evil itself (which would spiritually defile us)?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie

Martin Luther defined sin as "man turned inward upon himself", and I think that's a helpful way of putting it.

In Western theology (Roman Catholic and Protestant) the concept of Original Sin means that we bear the stain of the original sin--that is, Adam's offense--as Adam's children we bear not his personal guilt (a common misconception) but rather bear in ourselves the same sinful inclination as he himself had.

This is Sin not as a personal act ("a sin") but as a component of our basic human makeup after the Fall. We sin because we are sinful, rather than we are sinful because we sin. Sin precedes sin.

A helpful way the West has further described this known as concupiscience, that is, self-ward driven desire. The desires, the appetites of the flesh, twisted and bent toward oneself, bent inward, and thus away from God and neighbor.

In contrast God's commandments call us outward, they call us out from ourselves toward Himself and to our fellow man, to love God and neighbor. Sin, therefore, is missing the mark--not doing what we ought--and it is rooted deep down in ourselves, as inborn desire and drive that is in hungry pursuit of its own satisfaction and appetites.

This is often misconstrued as though the problem is natural desire or the natural appetites are themselves evil--the natural appetites for sex (intimacy and procreation), food, water, shelter, survival, etc--but it's not that these in and of themselves are the problem. it is the direction they are aimed that is the problem, namely they are aimed selfishly and result in the pain and suffering of our neighbor, causing injury in the world. The natural desire for sex is good and healthy, God commanded, "Be fruitful and multiply"; but the objectification of another, rape, self-centered sexual gratification, etc are a misdirected, twisted, inwardly bent misappropriation of the natural appetites.

Hence talk of the Vices or "Seven Deadly Sins": Wrath, Avarice, Sloth, Pride, Lust, Envy, and Gluttony. And in contrast, the Seven Virtues: The four "classical virtues" of Prudence, Justice, Temperance, and Courage, as well as the three "theological virtues", Faith, Hope, and Love (Charity) "and the greatest of these is Charity".

Thus sin is infraction of God's Law, of His commandments, of His commands that we love God, love our neighbor, that we seek what is good and beneficent for our fellow man, that we put others ahead of ourselves, etc. It is the outward, external calling to be just, to be righteous. Sin is every way in which we fail to be righteous before God.

Such sin arises from the bent and broken "flesh", a humanity and human desire bent, twisted, and broken under the weight of sin. This is also the meaning of "depravity", from the Latin prevare, "bent" or "curved", and thus the meaning of the Protestant (usually Reformed-Calvinist) language of "Total Depravity"; not that man is an entirely evil, malicious creature, but that man is in every facet of himself broken and bent inward toward himself. That includes the will itself.

That's why Sin is considered so nefarious and toxic. It's not merely the doing of the occasional "bad thing", instead it's the inward, natural inclination of the human person held heavy beneath sin's incredible weight. And, for example in the case of Lutheran Christianity, why we regard human ability not only insufficient to overcome it and be righteous, but that human ability is itself broken, bent, and shattered.

And thus what man needs isn't more Law, more commandment, more instruction on how to live a good and righteous life. Instead man needs an external agent, a gracious, merciful agent to come down, take hold of us, and rescue us--save us. To call out to dead, dry bones and call them back to life, and actually make them live. And this is what we believe God has done for us in and through Jesus, who by His death and resurrection has taken man, in all his sinful weakness, assumed our humanity in all its weakness and bore the brunt and weight of sin, death, and suffering; died, and then was raised up, taken out of death, as a victor over its power. Thus crucifying death in His body upon the cross, and raising up again as man over death, over sin, to live in the life and eternity of God. And that this Jesus, raised up, has been set before us as God's declaration that what He has done for Jesus He is doing for the whole world, and that this reality of resurrection and eternal life in Jesus is ours, by our union to Him, even now as we live in this mortal life, by God's promise and pledge, and to look forward to the Day when we are raised up, and God renews and restores all creation, new heavens and new earth, Age to Come, world everlasting.

This we call the Gospel. It is God's good word, the good announcement of what God has accomplished, and its preaching is for our own salvation; that what the Gospel promises it delivers, that what it declares it makes real. That it is the word of God spoken to us that makes dead bones walk again, that brings the dead to life. Which is why we call it good news--Gospel. And that by it, what God's Law cannot do--make men righteous--the Gospel does do, by the righteous Jesus in whom the unrighteous are proclaimed righteous in Him.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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theophilus777

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In the Story of Adam and Eve. God forbade them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They could separate Good from Evil already. Since they knew that eating the apple was evil. However they did not truly know evil. Since one could only know evil after eating the apple.

What exactly is sin? The evil act required to get knowledge of evil or having the knowledge of evil itself (which would spiritually defile us)?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie

Hi! I don't know what sort of answers you've already gotten but your understanding here reflects my own. I encounter a lot of Christians who use this passage to equate God with being anti intellect and even anti-education, which I find to be rather slanderous of His character. Not to mention inconsistent with the rest of Scripture.

Knowledge here refers to first-hand experiential knowing, as in Adam knew his wife. The wisdom we have (or don't have) in our head is a different thing, and isn't what we have the most dire consequences for. Sure, if we dwell on evil thoughts that can become problematic, but only as we act upon it. (Or obsess on the thoughts)

So sin is all wrapped in this, one big mess. We do the thing, and are defiled by that "knowledge," because our spirit is changed. Forgiveness from God becomes synonymous with healing at this level. And He is longsuffering with our faults, Bless His Holy Name :bow:
 
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ForJesusChrist

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In the Story of Adam and Eve. God forbade them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They could separate Good from Evil already. Since they knew that eating the apple was evil. However they did not truly know evil. Since one could only know evil after eating the apple.

What exactly is sin? The evil act required to get knowledge of evil or having the knowledge of evil itself (which would spiritually defile us)?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie

Perhaps they did not know the fruit was evil. God was all they knew of and He told them, "Do not eat the fruit". So they thought, "We should not eat the fruit". Since God is good all they knew about is good, so I doubt they even considered it being evil to do so. They just followed God's word. They would of never ate it, more then likely, had the serpent not tempted Eve.
 
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South Bound

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In the Story of Adam and Eve. God forbade them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They could separate Good from Evil already. Since they knew that eating the apple was evil. However they did not truly know evil. Since one could only know evil after eating the apple.

Irrelevant. They knew what "no" meant. God told them "No".

What exactly is sin?

The transgression of God's laws.

Or, as we teach our children, "any want of conformity unto, or transgression of the law of God."
 
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Meanstreak

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The only person replying to this thread to get it right is South Bound and ViaCrucis (if you can get through his entire post).

Sin is rebellion against God.

The fruit was not evil. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" could have been any random task in the Garden, i.e. "you can pick up any rock in the garden EXCEPT THIS ONE," or "you can take a nap under any bush in the garden EXCEPT THIS ONE."

The bottom line is there was only ONE rule in the garden and Adam and Eve both decided to break it. They rebelled. That's sin. It's that simple.

As soon as they rebelled, they realized they were naked and they hid themselves from God. That's when they were given "the knowledge of good and evil" - AFTER they ate the fruit.
 
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oi_antz

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The only person replying to this thread to get it right is South Bound and ViaCrucis (if you can get through his entire post).

Sin is rebellion against God.

The fruit was not evil. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" could have been any random task in the Garden, i.e. "you can pick up any rock in the garden EXCEPT THIS ONE," or "you can take a nap under any bush in the garden EXCEPT THIS ONE."

The bottom line is there was only ONE rule in the garden and Adam and Eve both decided to break it. They rebelled. That's sin. It's that simple.

As soon as they rebelled, they realized they were naked and they hid themselves from God. That's when they were given "the knowledge of good and evil" - AFTER they ate the fruit.

That is what I wanted to say here. I was also going to mention how God's rightful place in our lives was forfeited for something else we desire. This has given rise to organised religion which provides a suitable mechanism for us to feel redeemed in His name. This further became a mechanism for those who desire control to obtain it, which is why Jesus said He had come to free the Jews and why He protested to the temple procedures that time. Remember what He taught "there is none good but God". The people of His time were looking to their religious leaders for salvation, but it made them captives to sin and slaves to the establishment. He said "if the son will set you free, you will indeed be free".
 
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PROPHECYKID

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In the Story of Adam and Eve. God forbade them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

They could separate Good from Evil already. Since they knew that eating the apple was evil. However they did not truly know evil. Since one could only know evil after eating the apple.

What exactly is sin? The evil act required to get knowledge of evil or having the knowledge of evil itself (which would spiritually defile us)?

Thank you,

Fortunecookie

Sin is disobedience to God's command. The bible says sin is the transgression of the law. Well to Adam and Eve, that singular command was a law and they violated it, thus they sinned.
 
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Emmy

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Dear Fortunecookie. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
Jesus points out the great Importance of Love: for God first and for our neighbour next. What does God want from us? 1) Corinthians 13: tells us what Love really is, and the difference it makes to all who live accordingly.
Love is a Christian`s great weapon, with love we will overcome all obstacles, great and small. Also, Love is very catching, and the Bible tells us:
" Repent," and also " Be Born Again." We start by treating all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends, we treat as we would love to be treated.
( Matthew 7: 7-10) tells us " ask and ye shall receive," we ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all Love and Joy with all around us. God will see our loving obedience, and God will approve and Bless us. We will keep doing this, and we will find that we change gradually into the loving sons and daughters which God wants us to become. Jesus told us in Matthew 5: 48:
" be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." Love and obey, is a wonderful way. Love God and love our neighbour, is what God wants from us,
we will find that sin and evil will soon leave us in peace. Satan and all his followers, will run away from LOVE, freely given and No conditions tagged on.
I say this with love, fortunecookie. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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