Question About Confession.

[heron]

"OK, Jesus. I got what I wanted. See you when I'm dead".Here

Some people live like that. Some use confessionals as their relief to move on and keep living as they did. Of course, not everyone.

I personally don't think formal confessions are practical, since we would need it every hour of our lives as we entertain bad thoughts about others, gossip, white lie, entertain jealousy. We might focus more on our sins than on moving forward if we constantly listed in our minds what we needed to say at confessions.

"I got what I wanted." On an experiential note, I wouldn't give up this life. I don't think about heaven every day, but I certainly think of how God has warned me of danger and helped me with ideas every day.

From the outside, Christianity might appear an imposing, self-perpetuating convert mill. Honestly, I see few people "inside the mill" working that hard at converting.

The beauty of the faith is praying, and actually hearing something back...asking for advice, and finding everything you come across that day relates to your question...praying for a friend's situation, and finding an extraordinarily quick resolution. If there were no heaven, I would still take this route.

 

[Serapha]

But it allows us to be. Under OSAS, we can be as evil as we want. That completely goes against God's teaching. There is a flaw somewhere.

Hi there!



This is the greatest misunderstanding about the Doctrine of Eternal Security... that one may be saved and then sin as they wish... that is a false teaching... it doesn't come from the Bible as the Bible says that a believer will not continue in sin.

The "flaw" is believing that God doesn't do a perfect work when God saves a person. Either one is saved or one is not. One cannot be "unborn" in the family of God.

~serapha~

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Hi there!



This is the greatest misunderstanding about the Doctrine of Eternal Security... that one may be saved and then sin as they wish... that is a false teaching... it doesn't come from the Bible as the Bible says that a believer will not continue in sin.

The "flaw" is believing that God doesn't do a perfect work when God saves a person. Either one is saved or one is not. One cannot be "unborn" in the family of God.

~serapha~

Sounds very Calvinistic to me. "If they keep sinning, they were never elected by God. They were never a Christian."

Maybe this is the flaw in your logic. What if one is not saved or lost here on earth? We haven't been judged yet, we are neither saved nor condemned.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I personally don't think formal confessions are practical, since we would need it every hour of our lives as we entertain bad thoughts about others, gossip, white lie, entertain jealousy. We might focus more on our sins than on moving forward if we constantly listed in our minds what we needed to say at confessions.

The beauty of the faith is praying, and actually hearing something back...

Some Christians sin less than 1 time a month. The system is practical, we simpy abuse it and choose to live worldly lives.

Yes, this is one of the most important parts of Christianity. We begin to purify ourselves from sin, then living in prayer, God actually speaks to us, sometimes personally, sometimes through saints long past, sometimes animals, or even sometimes the living

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

I think the flaw is in your understanding of OSAS.

The Bible clearly tells us that if we are saved, if we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, that we will desire the things of God, and will turn away from sin.

Likewise, it tells us that if we do continue on in a lifestyle of willful, unrepentant sin, that there is something seriously wrong with our walk with Christ and we may not be saved, after all.

Then what it sounds like is that there is no OSAS, but that we will be judged when we die. Since we can choose to sin or not to sin after we are supposedly "saved," being "saved" in that since means nothing. This leads to salvation by works.

 

[12volt_man]

Then what it sounds like is that there is no OSAS, but that we will be judged when we die.

Where does the Bible tell us that those who are saved are exempt from judgement?

Since we can choose to sin or not to sin after we are supposedly "saved," being "saved" in that since means nothing. This leads to salvation by works.

Again, as I've already explained to you, the Bible tells us repeatedly that one of the signs of having been saved and regenerated by the Holy Spirit is that we now try to feed the spiritual man, not the carnal man.

That doesn't mean that we don't sin, but that we exhibit an ongoing pattern of sinful behavior.

There's a world of difference between a momentary moral lapse and a lifestyle of willful, unrepentant disobedience.

 

[heron]

Some Christians sin less than 1 time a month.

Hmm...are they sure? Ha, then they have the sin of pride.
The definition of sin could be the Big Ten, or anything that separates you from God. For instance, Jesus corrects his disciples for lack of faith. Was that a sin? (We don' t need a thread on it.)

How I view my daily sins:
- entertaining irritation over selfish drivers (unresolved anger)
- jealousy in my household over who does more, who has more freedom (envy)
- impatience in daily prayer and reading, that prods me to stop early (selfishness)
- failure to pray for people that God has asked me to pray for (omission)
- neglecting to think of my elderly neighbor's needs during a storm (ignoring needs)
- breaking the Sabbath by setting my own rules for that day (Big Ten)
- bringing up resentments of people in conversation, and allow the discussion to continue (gossip)
- watching the commercials on Comedy Central (and being too lazy to change the channel)
- fearing that God will not provide for my future (lack of trust in His word)
- spending too long on this forum when I have a job to do (slothfulness)
- pushing my views on someone just to sound more knowledegable (pride, oppression)

With my list so long, I do not consider confessionals practical for myself, and I ask Jesus to cover me with the one-time sacrifice. When I lose my temper with people, I apologize.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Hmm...are they sure? Ha, then they have the sin of pride.
The definition of sin could be the Big Ten, or anything that separates you from God.

They don't claim to, that would in fact be pride. There really are some that are this far in their walk with God. Because we are far behind them, we should not say they are lying, and in sin try to elevate ourselves above them.

And yes, I agree with that definition: Anything at all that seperates us from God.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Where does the Bible tell us that those who are saved are exempt from judgement?



Again, as I've already explained to you, the Bible tells us repeatedly that one of the signs of having been saved and regenerated by the Holy Spirit is that we now try to feed the spiritual man, not the carnal man.

That doesn't mean that we don't sin, but that we exhibit an ongoing pattern of sinful behavior.

There's a world of difference between a momentary moral lapse and a lifestyle of willful, unrepentant disobedience.

It doesn't. And this is a fatal flaw in OSAS. We are proclaimed saved or lost upon judgement. That is what judgement is for.

Then how do you seperate the unsaved from the weak? It seems that the only way is to wait until the end, when God judges their heart. Once again, they are saved or lost at this point. OSAS sounds nice, but it just doesn't make sense in regards to judgement. OSAS only works well under a Calvinistic belief pattern.

 

[VeryTiredGirl]

Hi,

1. Why do you need to confess your sin if Jesus had died for you?
2. Why not confess directly to Jesus rather than the Priest?Priest=Human
Jesus=god.

thanks.

For #1, it says in 1 John, "If we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God is gracious and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness".

For #2, someone else noted that by confessing to someone else, there is accountability-they can help you avoid repeating the sin.

In the Lutheran church, confessing sins privately to a pastor is optional. By doing so, the pastor can provide counselling if it's a very troubling sin, they can provide comfort from the Scriptures about God's forgiveness through Christ, and they can remind the person that their sins are forgiven, because of Jesus' work on the cross. Even though most Christians know that and accept it, for some, especially if the sin was out of character or perceived by the person to be 'big', they may feel uncomfortable, or forget that yes, they are forgiven and no, they aren't a horrible person.

 

[tadaspadas]

Look at manifesto at www.fessingup.com they have a very interesting point about human confessions They're building the library of confessions

 

[chilehed]

Hi,

1. Why do you need to confess your sin if Jesus had died for you?
2. Why not confess directly to Jesus rather than the Priest?Priest=Human
Jesus=god.

thanks.

The Sacrament of Penance is not a mere human invention devised by the Church to secure power over consciences or to relieve the emotional strain of troubled souls; it is the ordinary means appointed by Christ for the remission of sin. Man indeed is free to obey or disobey, but once he has sinned, he must seek pardon not on conditions of his own choosing but on those which God has determined, and these for the Christian are embodied in the Sacrament of Penance.

No Catholic believes that a priest simply as an individual man, however pious or learned, has power to forgive sins. This power belongs to God alone; but He can and does exercise it through the ministration of men. Since He has seen fit to exercise it by means of this sacrament, it cannot be said that the Church or the priest interferes between the soul and God; on the contrary, penance is the removal of the one obstacle that keeps the soul away from God.

It is not true that for the Catholic the mere "telling of one's sins" suffices to obtain their forgiveness. Without sincere sorrow and purpose of amendment, confession avails nothing, the pronouncement of absolution is of no effect, and the guilt of the sinner is greater than before.

This is a summary of Chapter One of “Frequent Confession: It’s Place in the Spiritual Life”, by Benedict Baur. I highly recommend the book:

A person may go to confession because he is guilty of various weaknesses and bad habits, and strugles with his inordinate desires and his self-love. He wishes to purify his soul from every stain of sin, and to keep it pure and to keep his will directed toward God. He seeks inner purification, strength of will, and new strength to strive after perfect union with Christ.

There are other means by which venial sins are forgiven, however when we go to confession we receive a Sacrament. The merits of the death of Christ are applied to those who have sinned after Baptism; this action falls upon our aversion from sin, and elevates us.

This grace is the strengthening and deepening of the supernatural life that already exists in our souls, and an increase in our love for God. It stimulates our will to acts of love of God and of contrition for our sins.

This grace not only blots out sin, but also undoes its evil effects on our souls more fully than when venial sins are forgiven outside of confession. It cures the soul from the weakness that follows venial sin, from the weariness and coldness toward the things of God, and from the inclination toward worldliness. It delivers the soul from its reawakened inordinate inclinations and instincts.

It does all of this by the power of Christ.

An important advantage of sacramental confession is that it engenders a more careful examination of conscience and a more sincere attitude of contrition than we are inclined to make when we make use of other means of confession. Indeed, this is an essential part of the sacrament, and the measure of the effect of the sacrament is determined by it. It depends on our personal attitude toward our sins and on our turning back to Christ and to God. In the sacrament of Penance our personal acts of penance do not remain purely personal but are linked with the sufferings and death of Christ, from whom the power of the sacrament comes.

Another advantage to frequent confession is that our sins are confessed to the Priest in his capacity as representative of Christ, and thus, in a sense, to the Church and the entire Christian community. We do not need to rely on our own subjective feeling as to whether or not our sins have “really” been forgiven.

Frequent confession looks not only backward to our past failings, but forward to the future. It aims at the positive goal of strengthening our will in our struggle to acquire Christian virtue, to become pure and pleasing in God’s sight, and to make the spirit reign over the passions and weaknesses of the old man. It helps to foster a Christlike disposition, hatred of everything that displeases God, a desire to make satisfaction for our sins, and a readiness to accept all of the sacrifices and sufferings that the Lord may aloow to come upon us.

It provides an opportunity to avail oneself of wise spiritual direction.

This link may prove helpful: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm

 

[RichSpidizzy]

chilehed's response was very good and I'd like to add to it slightly

The Sacrament of Reconcilliation is well rooted in Sacred Scripture. Let's start with John 20:19-23:

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, "Peace be with you." When he had said this, he showed them his hand and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
​

When Jesus gave the disciples the power to forgive (and not to forgive) sins, He did it on Easter Sunday. This is significant because of the connection of the Resurrection with spiritual life. Notice he gave the power by breathing on the Apostles. The only other time in scripture that God breathed on anyone was when he breathed life into the first human being (Genesis 2:7). These powerful symbols signify an awesome life-giving power given to the disciples. Notice that Jesus gives the disciples the authority to forgive and not to forgive. This means they need to hear the sins in order to know whether to forgive them or hold them bound. They can’t make the determination just by looking at the sinner.

Christ never engaged in unnecessary acts. He didn’t give the Apostles this power – His own power – for no reason at all. He wanted them to use it.

Now we’ll look at 2 Corinthians 5:17-20:

So whoever is in Christ is new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come. And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
​

Saint Paul explains how the apostles are ambassadors of Christ’s work of reconciliation. What does this mean but that they share in the ministry of Christ and forgive sins in His name? Also let’s look at James 5:13-16:

Is anyone among you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone in good spirits? He should sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the Church, and they should pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.
​

James makes clear that the sins of the sick are forgiven in this sacrament of anointing. He specifies that the presbyters (priests) must be called. They obviously had a power the ordinary Christian did not: the power to forgive sins. Otherwise, why didn’t James simply ask ordinary, fellow Christians to pray over the sick as is the case in numerous other passages?

We all believe that God uses His ministers as instruments in His physical healing. Why wouldn’t God do the same with the undeniably more important spiritual healing?

Return to John 20:21: "As the Father has sent me, so I send you." The Apostles are to continue the mission of Christ. The essence of that mission is THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS. Jesus knows our human nature. He provided sacramental confession to give us several important gifts: humility, the certainty of forgiveness, spiritual direction, and help to overcome self-deception and rationalization in matters of sin. Clearly, Christ gave his disciples the power to forgive sin. This power was intended to be passed on, since Christ knew people would sin until the end of time.

In John 15:5, Jesus likened our relationship with him to a vine, he is the vine and we are the branches; "I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing." Every branch is related to every other branch through the vine. What happens to one branch influences every other branch. If one branch becomes ill, neighboring branches become ill. Even branches far away are affected. Spiritual illness comes when we sin. It is impossible to sin and not influence others in society. We may not be aware of the influence, but it is there. Since every sin is social in its effects – it affects every other Christian, even every other person – Christ established a social means for forgiveness. In confession we relate our sins and sorrow to another human being, who represents both our Lord and the whole community of the faithful.

 

[chilehed]

chilehed's response was very good...

Thanks, I wish I could take credit for it. Every word except for "We do not need to rely on our own subjective feeling as to whether or not our sins have “really” been forgiven." was stolen, and I probably heard that somewhere before as well...