Question about Communion

[Bradford]

I think that:

Transub
Consub
Physical Presence Unexplained
Spiritual Presence Unexplained

Might be a better way to view it?

But that leaves off those who think it's just a memorial...

 

[InnerPhyre]

But that leaves off those who think it's just a memorial...

I know. I was only trying to sort out the differences between those who believe in the "Real Presence."

 

[Bradford]

I know. I was only trying to sort out the differences between those who believe in the "Real Presence."

Well... then I say your list is fine, expressing the different views. And until we have a true Council on it, we can all think what we want. As long as we don't teach Remembrance/Memorial... The Scripture doesn't get specific on HOW it is His Body, just that it is!

 

[Rechtgläubig]

it truley is more confusing than I thought. Question do churches other than the Catholic church have closed communion (only members can partake)? I know the Baptist church has (my words) mostly open communion in that you have to "be saved" to take communion. In the UMC anyone (saved or not) may partake. So it seems that there are at lest three ways of handling the taking of. Open (all can come and take) Mostly open (all can come as long as you can claim salvation) Closed (only members of the Denomination* can partake)

My Synod (WELS) practices Close Communion. As we understand Communion to be an expression of unity and a statement of faith, only churches, synods, or missions that are in doctrinal agreement are allowed to Commune.

All Saints Lutheran Church of Nigeria - (Nigeria)
Bulgarian Lutheran Church - (Bulgaria)
Christ the King Lutheran - (Nigeria)
Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Church - (Mexico)
Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Church - (Russia)
Confessional Lutheran Church - (Latvia)
Czech Evangelical Lutheran Church - (Czech Republic)
Evangelical Lutheran Confessional Church - (Finland)
Evangelical Lutheran Confessional Church - (Puerto Rico)
Evangelical Lutheran Free Church - (Germany)
Evangelical Lutheran Synod - (Peru)
Evangelical Lutheran Synod - (United States)
The Lutheran Church of Cameroon - (Cameroon)
Lutheran Church of Central Africa - (Malawi Conference)
Lutheran Church of Central Africa - (Zambia Conference)
Lutheran Confessional Church - (Sweden/Norway)
Lutheran Evangelical Christian Church - (Japan)
Ukrainian Lutheran Church - (Ukraine)
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod - (United States)

 

[overnight]

I guess the only thing I do not understand about closed communion is How it is done. Obviously noone asks when a person comes up to partake do they. (Not that I would take communion at a closed communion church, that would be wrong, just trying to get an understanding.)

 

[Rechtgläubig]

I guess the only thing I do not understand about closed communion is How it is done. Obviously noone asks when a person comes up to partake do they. (Not that I would take communion at a closed communion church, that would be wrong, just trying to get an understanding.)

At our churches we generally put a little flier in the bulliten folder explaining our stance on close Communion. After the concecration of the elements, the pastor will make an short announcement again covering our stance and why and as that only members of our synod or sister synods come forward. The ushers then procede to go pew to pew and in small groups (about 10-12) we go up to the alter and line up across the front, before the pastor. He distributes the elements, which we consume, then we return to our seats as the next 10-12 line up. Hope that gives you a little peek at our process, if you need more info let me know.

 

[InnerPhyre]

I guess the only thing I do not understand about closed communion is How it is done. Obviously noone asks when a person comes up to partake do they. (Not that I would take communion at a closed communion church, that would be wrong, just trying to get an understanding.)

There aren't any Communion Cops standing there watching. You could go to mass and take Communion, and more than likely no one would know you aren't Catholic. If the priest knew that you weren't Catholic though, when you came up, he would most likely bless you with the sign of the cross on your forehead instead of handing you the Host. We line up to receive the Host, and then move on to receive the Chalice. Before the priest gives the Host, he says "The Body of Christ" to which you reply "Amen." The minister who holds the Chalice says "The Blood of Christ." You again reply "Amen." This is to make sure that everyone who takes it knows what they receive and make a conscious decision to do so. You essentially have to lie to receive it if you don't truly believe it's Jesus's Body and Blood. It is announced in our church bulletin that only Catholics and Orthodox who have made a good confession in the past year and are not in a state of mortal sin may receive the Eucharist.


*edit* Note: To deceive the priest and receive communion in an unworthy state would put your soul in jeopardy, however.

 

[Rechtgläubig]

"Communion Cops"

LOL!

 

[HeatherJay]

Growing up, I attended an Independent Southern Baptist church, and they practiced closed communion...which makes very little sense (now that I think about it) since they also were 'rememberence only' people....hmmm. Anyway, I can remember feeling very self conscious and left out that I couldn't participate, even though I was only a child. Most of the other children didn't either, but I can still remember thinking, "If I were sitting at a table with Jesus, would He share his bread with me?" It really was an awful feeling, and one of the main reasons I left that church when I was a bit older.

Sorry, can't really contribute much to the theological discussion. Here's the Church of the Nazarene belief from our Articles of Faith :

XIII. The Lord’s Supper

17. We believe that the Memorial and Communion Supper instituted by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is essentially a New Testament sacrament, declarative of His sacrificial death, through the merits of which believers have life and salvation and promise of all spiritual blessings in Christ. It is distinctively for those who are prepared for reverent appreciation of its significance, and by it they show forth the Lord’s death till He come again. It being the Communion feast, only those who have faith in Christ and love for the saints should be called to participate therein.

(Exodus 12:1-14; Matthew 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:17-20; John 6:28-58; 1 Corinthians 10:14-21; 11:23-32)

 

[Iosias]

Not true. Come to OBOB if you want it explained better, but it's not a continual sacrifice of Jesus. We believe that the one sacrifice that Jesus made is made present to us at the Mass.

I will come...but that is what I have been taught by Catholics themselves!!

 

[InnerPhyre]

I will come...but that is what I have been taught by Catholics themselves!!

Such Catholics were mistaken

 

[PaladinValer]

I know a lot of Vatican Catholics who are utterly ignorant of their own church's doctrinal positions, etc.

I also know a lot of former Vatican Catholics who never truly understood exactly what the Vatican Catholic Church meant on many subjects and issues (two of the biggest ones are the Immaculate Conception and [you guested it] transubstantiationism).

I got a feeling one or both of the above figure into the equation...

 

[SPALATIN]

1 Corinthians 11

27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

Based on these verses I would like to know from those who don't consider Holy Communion to be a sacrament but instead a "memorial meal" what is the significance of these verses to you? If it is only a memorial meal then why would you need to "examine yourself"?

 

[vanshan]

*crickets chirping*

 

[ExOrienteLux]

Well, seeing as no Ortho-folks other than vanshan have posted here, I'm going to outline the Orthodox view of the Mystery of the Eucharist so far as I'm able in the little time I have here.

The Orthodox Church believes that once the Holy Gifts are consecrated, they become the true Body and Blood of Our Lord. We don't know how it happens and we don't know how to explain it; we just know that it happens. As we say in our prayers before Communion:

I believe, O Lord, and I confess that Thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. And I believe that this is truly Thine own immaculate Body, and that this is truly Thine own precious Blood, wherefore I pray Thee: Have mercy upon me, and forgive my transgressions, both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance, and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of Thine immaculate Mysteries, unto remission of my sins, and unto life everlasting. Amen

The Church practices closed Communion because the Eucharist is not a means to unity; it is a outflowing of it. Only those who believe what the Church believes and have recently confessed their sins may partake of it. For anyone else to do so is to endanger both their physical and their spiritual health.

I have to run, but some other Orthodox folks can probably come and fill it where I've missed.

His sinful and unworthy servant,
Josh.

 

[Commoner]

I was sitting tonight thinking. As far as I know there are about 5 different thoughts about communion. I will tell you what I think they are (you can add any if I missed one) and I hope that people who are a part of the dogmas I mention will speak up and tell us more about it.

Transubstantation: Thought where the Bread and Wine literally turn into the Body and Blood of Jesus Chirst. Catholic tradition. Only confirmed Catholics may partake of this.

Real Presence: (the one I know lest about) Lutherian tradition. (Please someone tell me more abou this. Are there other denoms that practice this? What is its meaning? Who can partake?)

Sacrament: THought where there is an experiance where no matter the state of your soul the taking of commuinion bestows grace. (Please help I'm a methodists and subscribe to this and still have trouble explaining it). Wesley Tradition. All who love Jesus may take of it. (children as well)

Memorial: Thought that there is no special happening when communion is taken but just to remember that Jesus died for our sins. The Baptist church is one(others?) You do not have to be member of the church but you do have to claim salvation.

Not important: There is no need to take communion. Quakers (although some do take it) [There may be others here as well].

Transidentification: the bread and wine ARE truly the body and blood of Christ in a FUNCTIONAL sense. They are still bread and wine and that bread is the body of Christ and that wine is the blood of Christ. We who eat the one bread altogether become that bread and since we are the body of Christ so is the bread we eat. That is why the bread is truly the body of Christ.

Commoner

 

[SPALATIN]

Well, seeing as no Ortho-folks other than vanshan have posted here, I'm going to outline the Orthodox view of the Mystery of the Eucharist so far as I'm able in the little time I have here.

The Orthodox Church believes that once the Holy Gifts are consecrated, they become the true Body and Blood of Our Lord. We don't know how it happens and we don't know how to explain it; we just know that it happens. As we say in our prayers before Communion:


The Church practices closed Communion because the Eucharist is not a means to unity; it is a outflowing of it. Only those who believe what the Church believes and have recently confessed their sins may partake of it. For anyone else to do so is to endanger both their physical and their spiritual health.

I have to run, but some other Orthodox folks can probably come and fill it where I've missed.

His sinful and unworthy servant,
Josh.

As a Lutheran, I would agree with almost 90% of this, but I don't want to get into that argument at the moment. My question was to those who believe that Holy Communion is only a "memorial meal" can justify the verses in 1 Corinthians 11 about examining oneself. If it is just a memorial meal than those verses should be moot, but since they claim to take the Bible literally than there would seem to be a dichotomy in their understanding of Holy communion.

 

[vanshan]

My baptist mother-in-law believes that communion is only a memorial service, just as I once did. When I believed that is was just because I had been raised to see it that way, but when questioned she quoted the part of the Mystic Supper where Christ said, "do this in rememberance of Me." I explained to her that we can be doing both, partaking of Christ and remembering Him at the same time. She really had no response to that.

Basil