Question about blasphemy

[flowerforever7]

There are Scriptures that talk about how God keeps no record of wrongs, remembers our sins no more, throws our sins are far as the east is from the west.

What about real blasphemy of the Holy Spirit though? I know that is an eternal sin, and the Scriptures say that it will never be forgiven; but because it cannot be forgiven, is it possible for God to just remove it from your record without forgiving it? (So that the sin will not show up at all meaning there is nothing on record to forgive, so that you may be saved?) Essentially, can He remove this sin without needing to forgive it first before He removes it? I know what God says is truth, if He says that those who commit this sin will not be forgiven, I believe He is telling the truth. This is why I am wanting to know if He can just remove it from record without forgiving it, so that those who have committed it, can be saved if they truly want to be saved by Jesus after committing that sin.

What are your conclusions and why? Please be respectfully honest. (If you can please stick to my main questions I am asking, I would appreciate it.)

Thanks.

 

[iLogos]

There are Scriptures that talk about how God keeps no record of wrongs, remembers our sins no more, throws our sins are far as the east is from the west.

What about real blasphemy of the Holy Spirit though? I know that is an eternal sin, and the Scriptures say that it will never be forgiven; but because it cannot be forgiven, is it possible for God to just remove it from your record without forgiving it? (So that the sin will not show up at all meaning there is nothing on record to forgive, so that you may be saved?) Essentially, can He remove this sin without needing to forgive it first before He removes it? I know what God says is truth, if He says that those who commit this sin will not be forgiven, I believe He is telling the truth. This is why I am wanting to know if He can just remove it from record without forgiving it, so that those who have committed it, can be saved if they truly want to be saved by Jesus after committing that sin.

What are your conclusions and why? Please be respectfully honest. (If you can please stick to my main questions I am asking, I would appreciate it.)

Thanks.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:

(Matt 12:31 [NKJV])
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.

This is only spoken of a few times and not much is known about it, one thing for sure, most of us just "grieve the Holy Spirit!" So this type of sin is long in the making, not one you can accidentally do! It is most intentional and one made with no remorse!

You can speak against the son of Man but not against the Holy Spirit. Why this sin is unpardonable, we don't know. No reason is given. It no doubt includes Lucifer and his fallen angels. I doubt there is any danger of any actual believers to do this.

 

[flowerforever7]

Hi iLogos,

What about if someone genuinely got angry at the Holy Spirit and yelled f* you at the Spirit, for convicting that person of something; and then was genuinely sorry for it afterward, wanting to repent?

I'm not sure that I believe that a person who "speaks a word against the Spirit" puts them in the camp where they instantly feel no desire to repent at all. It seems logical that in addition to those who commit the unforgivable sin who have no desire to repent, that there would be people who could commit the unforgivable sin who feel remorseful afterward and desire to repent or be forgiven.

Thanks.

 

[iLogos]

I think it's more what's behind the word(s), and what's going on spiritually.

I'm sure most of us grieve the Holy Spirit and perhaps some more then others

But what we are talking about here imho is some thing much deeper beyond words. I don't think we can slip up and cause that like your example. I think that would be grieving the Holy Spirit for sure, but depending on what's going on inside of us, only God knows. So in your example, the outer portion of it is not what to go by, it could be part of blasphemy against the HS or it could simply be a really stupid thing and only cause grieve.

If one feels remorse, regret, I doubt that would be blasphemy against the HS, one would need to be stone cold wicked, no remorse, no regret. That's why it's more like what's inside that matters most.

also, There is no biblical support for a believer committing this sin. It just hasn't happened. So it's very doubtful a believer ever could

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

What about real blasphemy of the Holy Spirit though? I know that is an eternal sin, and the Scriptures say that it will never be forgiven; but because it cannot be forgiven, is it possible for God to just remove it from your record without forgiving it? (So that the sin will not show up at all meaning there is nothing on record to forgive, so that you may be saved?) Essentially, can He remove this sin without needing to forgive it first before He removes it? I know what God says is truth, if He says that those who commit this sin will not be forgiven, I believe He is telling the truth. This is why I am wanting to know if He can just remove it from record without forgiving it, so that those who have committed it, can be saved if they truly want to be saved by Jesus after committing that sin.

What are your conclusions and why? Please be respectfully honest. (If you can please stick to my main questions I am asking, I would appreciate it.)

Thanks.

I do not believe that it can be forgiven at all, and if it can't be forgiven, than it would be foolish to say that God would completely remove it from your record, for that would be acting as if it would never happened, and would make God dishonest and unfair. To remove it from record would be the same as forgiving it. And to remove it from your record would be like a judge covering a rape of a rapist as if it never happened so that the rapist wouldn't be charged. I'm sorry, but to say that he will remove such an unforgivable sin is ridiculous. However, I am aware that the devil himself does tend to tempt us to take advantage of this, even desiring to see us commit this sin so that we may not be forgiven. I myself have been tempted to do this, especially in times of distress. For example, when I am hungry and have no money to buy food, or when I was hospitalized in a mental hospital for like 7 months, or when I was being persecuted, the devil would come to me and do as Job's wife did, which was to curse God and die ('His wife said to him, "Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!" -Job 2:9), only the devil tempted me to curse the Holy Spirit within myself, knowing that it would mean that I might be condemned forever, he wanted to see this happen! This did produce an overwhelming anxiety within me and I did indeed think about it, but I was anxious not to let myself slip and do what he was trying to get me to do, but what I didn't know or consider at the time, is that God doesn't necessarily impute these kind of unintentional sins upon us or keep them on record, but he overlooks them! This goes into Pauls' testimony about how sin was revived in his flesh from the law and caused him to do exactly what he did not want to do (Romans 7:15-19). So, my word of advice is not to worry about it if you feel tempted or compelled to do this against your own will within your own mind, for God will not condemn you. He does, however, expect you to trust in him and to evntually let go of such worries without letting the devil sway you and not commit even unintentional sins, for the Spirit does teach us to avoid them.

But before jumping to conclusions, if you do indeed deliberately blaspheme the Holy Spirit with your mouth, you cannot be forgiven. Or if you even do so intentionally within your own heart, you are also given the same condemnation! This includes denying a chosen one of God has the Holy Spirit, but claiming they have a devil, deliberately speaking evil against and about the Holy Spirit as you and I know it, lying about him, etc. etc. Possibly even cursing him could be considered just as bad. I suggest you show the holy Spirit nothing but respect and think about him in a positive light at all times. Don't let the devil cause you to think bad of him or to blame him for anything, as he attempted to do with me. Keep in mind that Ananias and his wife both fell dead upon being charged with lying to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5)!

 

[wayseer]

I wonder if anyone knows what is meant by 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit'? If you knew what it meant you would stop worrying about needless things and sleep a lot easier.

 

[flowerforever7]

@ Apocolpticremedy: Hmm... I guess that means I most likely will be going to Hell. It is so sad, because I want so desperately to be with God. I really do love Him, even though I have in my heart I have cursed His Spirit in my anger. I do wish there was some way for this sin to be removed from my record so that I could be with God.

@ Wayseer: I am fully aware of what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

I wonder if anyone knows what is meant by 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit'? If you knew what it meant you would stop worrying about needless things and sleep a lot easier.

Again, like I said, it means to speak evil of the Holy Spirit, or to deny one who has the Holy Spirit having the Holy Spirit but having a devil. Mainly to speak any form of evil against and/or about him.

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

@ Apocolpticremedy: Hmm... I guess that means I most likely will be going to Hell. It is so sad, because I want so desperately to be with God. I really do love Him, even though I have in my heart I have cursed His Spirit in my anger. I do wish there was some way for this sin to be removed from my record so that I could be with God.

@ Wayseer: I am fully aware of what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.

I am truly sorry to hear that! Maybe cursing the Holy Spirit is not considered as bad as blaspheming him though. I didn't necessarily say it was but I said, "Possibly even cursing him could be considered just as bad." Key word: possibly! I could be wrong however. There have been times I have wanted to curse God, and before truly being saved, I have done so, but I have always been extremely careful about cursing the Holy Spirit. I mean, if you sursed the Father or the Son, I'm sure you can be forgiven, however, the Holy Spirit seems to be a different story. If you truly have a genuine love for God and truly want to seek him in spirit and in truth, then I do have hope for you! I think I'll pray and seek God about this matter and get back at you with his answer. In the meantime maybe someone esle could help you out here.

 

[Daniel411]

From what I can understand.by reading scripture, Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, unforgivable sin

To not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through you when called up before antichrist.

5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.Mark 13:5-11 (KJV)

cllarified more in Mathew

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Matt 10:17 (KJV) through 33
......
26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 10:17-33 (KJV)

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

From what I can understand.by reading scripture, Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, unforgivable sin

To not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through you when called up before antichrist.
(KJV)

I don't think that not allowing the Spirit to speak through you really counts as blasphemy.

 

[Daniel411]

I don't think that not allowing the Spirit to speak through you really counts as blasphemy.

Thats fine, its just what I see in these verses.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.Mark 13:5-11 (KJV)


33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. seems unpardonable to me
Matt 10:17-33 (KJV)
It ties together when you read the full scriptue In both Mathew and Mark Jesus is speaking of the same events,

 

[wayseer]

Again, like I said, it means to speak evil of the Holy Spirit, or to deny one who has the Holy Spirit having the Holy Spirit but having a devil. Mainly to speak any form of evil against and/or about him.

Nope - try again.

 

[Daniel411]

I wonder if anyone knows what is meant by 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit'? If you knew what it meant you would stop worrying about needless things and sleep a lot easier.

Amen

 

[wayseer]

Amen

Thank you - for a moment I thought I was alone.

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

Nope - try again.

No, uh, I'm pretty sure that's what it means.


Blasphemy:

• impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.
• according to Judaism: an act of cursing or reviling God.
• pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using a substitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
  
• the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.
  
• irreverent behavior toward anything held sacred, priceless, etc.: He uttered blasphemies against life itself.
  
  

 

[wayseer]

We can only come to God through the work of the Holy Spirit - in fact that is the purpose of the Holy Spirit - to bring people to God.

In order to 'grieve/blaspheme the Holy Spirit' one must reverse what the Holy Spirit has achieved. In other words, one must not only work actively against the Holy Spirit but work with an intent to undo the work of the Holy Sprit.

Quite simple, such a task could not be achieved by a Christian - one whom the Holy Spirit has bought to God. It is therefore impossible for a Christian to fall into the sin of grieving or blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Such could only be achieved by those in whom the Holy Spirit has not moved.

Which is why all Christian can rest easy and forget the whole matter.

So stop trying to create fear over nothing.

 

[Daniel411]

We can only come to God through the work of the Holy Spirit - in fact that is the purpose of the Holy Spirit - to bring people to God.

In order to 'grieve/blaspheme the Holy Spirit' one must reverse what the Holy Spirit has achieved. In other words, one must not only work actively against the Holy Spirit but work with an intent to undo the work of the Holy Sprit.

Quite simple, such a task could not be achieved by a Christian - one whom the Holy Spirit has bought to God. It is therefore impossible for a Christian to fall into the sin of grieving or blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Such could only be achieved by those in whom the Holy Spirit has not moved.

Which is why all Christian can rest easy and forget the whole matter.

So stop trying to create fear over nothing.

Yes,
I also see scripture as pointing to the elect being the only ones having this as a possibility, further I don’t believe they will.

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

We can only come to God through the work of the Holy Spirit - in fact that is the purpose of the Holy Spirit - to bring people to God.

In order to 'grieve/blaspheme the Holy Spirit' one must reverse what the Holy Spirit has achieved. In other words, one must not only work actively against the Holy Spirit but work with an intent to undo the work of the Holy Sprit.

Quite simple, such a task could not be achieved by a Christian - one whom the Holy Spirit has bought to God. It is therefore impossible for a Christian to fall into the sin of grieving or blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Such could only be achieved by those in whom the Holy Spirit has not moved.

Which is why all Christian can rest easy and forget the whole matter.

So stop trying to create fear over nothing.

Yes, but blaspheming and grieving the HS are two different things.

 

[wayseer]

Yes, but blaspheming and grieving the HS are two different things.

Go for it - beat yourself up - here are some tissues and towel to wipe up the blood.

Fortunately Jesus has sent me free. What I don't get is that many Christians still want to be bound up to in rules and red tape. Hey, go for it.