If we are guilty because of our sins and an innocent man died in our stead, doesn't that make us more guilty?
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Question about atonement
- Thread starter Nooj
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- Mar 27, 2007
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Not if that man is our savior and by His sacrifice all then have the hope of salvation.
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Jesus accomplished salvation in his death, burial, and resurrection. But salvation is not applied until the individual repents and believes. Salvation is never applied to those who do not believe.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever *believes* in him should not perish..."
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- Mar 27, 2007
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He saved us from death. The atonement is judicial meaning that God considers all that believe in the Son righteous, not guilty. We are still human though, so there is still sin in our lives. All sin has consequences. For example, if one lies there are consequences for lying, if one steals there are consequences for stealing, etc.
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razeontherock
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YES! But who is our Judge? And who is our Advocate? (defense attorney)
And who is our Intercessor? And our High Priest? And our elder Brother? Truly a Divine plan ...
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S
solarwave
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Why would it? If someone has been fined and an innocent gives that person money to pay the fine it wouldn't make the guilty one more guilty.
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I meant that aren't we guilty because we have let an innocent person die in our stead. I know he volunteered, but we would still be guilty of accepting it. Say that I stole something, then someone offered to take my place in prison and I say ok, you can stay there while I remain unpunished.
Could you explain further?
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razeontherock
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Perhaps you'll begin to see the beauty of it here:He not only volunteered, but executed the plan w/o our knowledge or consent. In fact, He went to great pains to make sure no one understood what was going on at the time, otherwise the plan would've been halted rather than completed.
So then our acceptance is not what took His Life: He laid it down willingly.
Much like no one was asking for His forgiveness - He extended that freely.
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Dear Nooj. Yes, Jesus died that we might live. Jesus paid the prize we could not, we had moved too far away from God, our sins were too many, and there was no-one left without sin or transgression, to give us another chance. Yes, we owe Jesus our lives, and Jesus died for us out of Love for us. It is Jesus`s Love for us which saved us, He became human to pay for our lives, His Blood washed our sins away, and now Jesus is waiting to lead us home again, to where we came from. Would`nt you say that greater Love cannot be found, and that we owe God a try at least? All God wants from us: to change our selfish and loveless characters INTO: Loving God with all our beings, and loving our neighbour as we love ourselves: selflessly and no conditions asked. But for Jesus, you Nooj and I and all humanity, would not be here today. ( At least not as men and women with a good chance to Life abundant, as Jesus has promised and is having for us.) God told us : " Whosoever will may come", and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are waiting to help us. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.
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