Question about Adultery

[seebs]

Actually, I think the bible states that both parties, whether innocent or not are guilty of adultery if they remarry. It states that if you marry a divorced wife, you cause her to commit adultery..... I think the innocent is free to divorce, but not to remarry. However, I think that the passage is referring to the state of the heart. The truth is, God will forgive anyone of anything. I do believe that you could have messed up by having an affair, and later remarry and be blessed by God. The problem with adultery though, just like any other sin you commit, such as premarital sex, comes with consequences. Although God may indeed forgive you, you'll have to live with the natural consequences that the sins produces.

The thing I see often is that people remarry. And then, having done so, they are told "you are in sin". Well, maybe remarrying was a sin, but they did it, and divorcing is still prohibited. Even if you shouldn't have married.

Trying to separate a couple because divorce is wrong is, uhm... Counterproductive.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Thank you for your response Living Stone, but I do have one other question. Say a husband doesnt have anyone in mind while being married but divorces his wife so he could look for someone else, not to be remarried but just to have sex, how does this affect the woman being divorced, would the marriage be ended in Gods eyes?

Well, that is still adultery. Honestly, though, I don't think a marriage is over in God's eyes just because someone commits adultery. Remember, his word to us is also to forgive. God also had a man stick with his wife while she slept with many other men to reveal his love for us, how he sticks with us though we run after other Gods and other things have our hearts. Love, is God's ultimate will, whether it's to not commit adultery, or to forgive the one that commit's adultery. I don't know if I would feel justified to divorce my husband if say I found out he had an affair just because scripture says it's ok, do you know what I mean? I think that if he continued in his affair and had an unrepentant heart than I might eventually be able to receive justification from God.... but something is wrong with a heart that seeks divorce just because they have biblical permission to. God's ultimate will is that the one man and one wife stick together. That is my opinion anyways.... not saying I wouldn't divorce hubby if he had one affair, it just depends on the grace I had at the time, and the faith.

Make sense?

HB

 

[Grishnak]

Actually, I think the bible states that both parties, whether innocent or not are guilty of adultery if they remarry. It states that if you marry a divorced wife, you cause her to commit adultery..... I think the innocent is free to divorce, but not to remarry. However, I think that the passage is referring to the state of the heart. The truth is, God will forgive anyone of anything. I do believe that you could have messed up by having an affair, and later remarry and be blessed by God. The problem with adultery though, just like any other sin you commit, such as premarital sex, comes with consequences. Although God may indeed forgive you, you'll have to live with the natural consequences that the sins produces.


HB

Youre entitled to you opinion.


Id go thru the whole song and dance again, but Ive a feeling youre just another face in the crowd who doesnt care to hear about justice and mercy but only to beat us about the head and neck with those 4 verses that everyone else uses that are not complete in detail..

 

[seebs]

I think a more detailed response may be in order.

The exact question of what The Rules are is simply beyond us to know; we have multiple different explanations given, and they are not complete or exhaustive.

In all things, charity.

 

[Grishnak]

Well, that is still adultery. Honestly, though, I don't think a marriage is over in God's eyes just because someone commits adultery.

Good, you said ''I dont think''
Thank God His word is clearer on the matter and it, not what you think, is what is important.

Remember, his word to us is also to forgive.

Does Hebrews speak forgiveness to the apostate?
Can one who blasphemes the Holy Spirit be forgiven?
Please dont presume to say that anything can or will be forgiven by Christ.
that arguement is lame as its best.

God also had a man stick with his wife while she slept with many other men to reveal his love for us, how he sticks with us though we run after other Gods and other things have our hearts.

Hosea.
So now we're all prophets?
God had Moses part the Red Sea, are you gonna make us do that next?
Shall I defeat an army with the jawbone of an ass because someone else did?
Your example is irrelevant.

Love, is God's ultimate will, whether it's to not commit adultery, or to forgive the one that commit's adultery.

Forgiveness isnt alwasys the issue.
Lets not beat around the bush and play games sis.
If your cheating husband were beating and raping you and molesting YOUR kids, dont even sit here and pretend that you would have to stay WITH him and subject you and your kids to his evils just to show you forgave him.
Thats just absurd.

I don't know if I would feel justified to divorce my husband if say I found out he had an affair just because scripture says it's ok, do you know what I mean?

Thats your call.
Many people dont divorce over one mistake.
I left my ex when she decided she was going to move in and marry her lover.
That was HER decision.

I think that if he continued in his affair and had an unrepentant heart than I might eventually be able to receive justification from God.... but something is wrong with a heart that seeks divorce just because they have biblical permission to. God's ultimate will is that the one man and one wife stick together. That is my opinion anyways.... not saying I wouldn't divorce hubby if he had one affair, it just depends on the grace I had at the time, and the faith.

Thats wonderful.
No one has said rush out and file a divorce for a mistake.
If the person is not going to stop then we have permission to divorce AND remarry if WE, not you, decide to put away the guilty spouse

 

[Grishnak]

I think a more detailed response may be in order.

The exact question of what The Rules are is simply beyond us to know; we have multiple different explanations given, and they are not complete or exhaustive.

In all things, charity.

Funny thing is, in 1 Cor. 7 the one line that they all seem to blow past is ''but God has called us to PEACE"

Like its not even there or something.

Oh well, there never was any need to understand the WHOLE bible.
We all just need to find our own 4 verses to pattern our life around.

 

[seebs]

Funny thing is, in 1 Cor. 7 the one line that they all seem to blow past is ''but God has called us to PEACE"

Like its not even there or something.

Oh well, there never was any need to understand the WHOLE bible.
We all just need to find our own 4 verses to pattern our life around.

It's important to remember that some parts of Leviticus are ceremonial, not moral. Like Leviticus 19:18; that's just a cultural practice, and modern Americans ignore it.

 

[babyangel]

Am I crazy to feel that forgiving someone for adultery would be alot easier than years of continual mental, verbal, and physcial abuse. I mean if I had a great husband in my life and he treated me good and he had an encounter or two, and he was truly sorry, I could see myself forgiving this man. I can trust again because the doing was not physically against me. How can you trust when your own body is being betrayed agaisnt, when you feel demeened and belittled. And when there is so much more involved, when you can't for one day be happy. When you can discuss things without running to the door in fear for yourself, thats just not right. According to some adultery is an "out" in the bible. But there is so much worse and immoral acts in the world than adultery.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Am I crazy to feel that forgiving someone for adultery would be alot easier than years of continual mental, verbal, and physcial abuse. I mean if I had a great husband in my life and he treated me good and he had an encounter or two, and he was truly sorry, I could see myself forgiving this man. I can trust again because the doing was not physically against me. How can you trust when your own body is being betrayed agaisnt, when you feel demeened and belittled. And when there is so much more involved, when you can't for one day be happy. When you can discuss things without running to the door in fear for yourself, thats just not right. According to some adultery is an "out" in the bible. But there is so much worse and immoral acts in the world than adultery.

No. Not crazy at all. Also, forgiveness is one thing, but continuing to put yourself in danger is something else. IMO, churches need to take steps to assure the safety of wives who have been abused. When they don't, they certainly have no right to condemn the woman for initiating a separation or divorce. In fact, they may bear more of the responsibility than the woman who asked for help but didn't get it. Could churches do more to protect their members? You bet they could!

I think in Matthew 5, Matthew 19, Mark 10 and Luke 16, Jesus was saying there were other offenses as serious as adultery. Yet at the same time he taught against divorce for any but the most serious and intolerable reasons.

I don't view adultery as an "out," but as one of the things that might make a marriage intolerable. I think when we try to bootstrap whatever makes marriage difficult into the category of adultery or that of desertion because we believe either of these is an "out," we approach the question as the Pharisees. I used the word "option" once before in discussing this idea. I think by "out" you mean the same thing I meant by "option."

I don't know if I can explain this any better than I did yesterday in another thread, where I said divorce is not an option. I hope you'll read those posts. I'll try to explain better, if I wasn't clear.

 

[seebs]

Liz, I started a new thread on this.

I would appreciate your compartively gentle corrections.

 

[Grishnak]

No. Not crazy at all. Also, forgiveness is one thing, but continuing to put yourself in danger is something else. IMO, churches need to take steps to assure the safety of wives who have been abused. When they don't, they certainly have no right to condemn the woman for initiating a separation or divorce. In fact, they may bear more of the responsibility than the woman who asked for help but didn't get it. Could churches do more to protect their members? You bet they could!

agreed.

And Ill add my own thoughts.

If we are accountable for not telling people about Jesus when we can, then we sure ought to be accountable for our teachings when they cause a woman to stay with a man who ends up putting her into the hospital or worse.

The persons telling a woman that Jesus will work it all out for her and to keep with some animal ought to have to stand and face our Lord for this heinous crime.

What they do is nothing less than telling Adam to trust God that Eve wont eat the fruit offered by the snake.
Eve had her own mind and will.
God was not responsible to make her obey and be good.
Adam could not have sit back and expect God to MAKE Eve obey.


We're not zombies and Gods not going to force a man to change.

What God will do is help the woman to possibly get out of danger at some point and away from the lunatic.

Just like that story where the man sits on the roof during the flood waiting for God to rescue him.
The boat comes by and a helicopter, but the man just keeps refusing help because hes waiting on God to perform some magic trick and save him.

Thats what these folks are telling these women to do.
Sit there on that roof and wait for God to pull some miracle to save them.

Except its even worse.
God DOES do miracles.
But He doesnt often infringe upon the free will that He has given us.

Take a look around folks.
The world has gone to hell over sin and evil.
God isnt required to make this abusive husband quit being evil.

I think the pastors/churches that would tell a woman to stick it out with this man and hope for the best ought to be held accountable for any injury that befalls her....by God AND by the law of man.

 

[Jennifer615]

Am I crazy to feel that forgiving someone for adultery would be alot easier than years of continual mental, verbal, and physcial abuse. I mean if I had a great husband in my life and he treated me good and he had an encounter or two, and he was truly sorry, I could see myself forgiving this man. I can trust again because the doing was not physically against me. How can you trust when your own body is being betrayed agaisnt, when you feel demeened and belittled. And when there is so much more involved, when you can't for one day be happy. When you can discuss things without running to the door in fear for yourself, thats just not right. According to some adultery is an "out" in the bible. But there is so much worse and immoral acts in the world than adultery.

That is sooooooooooooo true!!!!! I have a wonderful husband who treats me with respect. Just say, on one of his business trips, he has a bit to drink and has a fling. Well, I would go off my head, I would scream, I would confine him to the couch for a while and he wouldn't get any """ for a while, but I would get some very good Christian counselling and we would work this out. Yes he would have alot of repenting to do, but a moment of indiscresion would not destroy our marriage. I would eventually forgive him, if he was truly repentant.
My ex, however, was similar to what you have described, babyangel. I was crying all the time. I was in deep depression because of his abuse, cruel words and neglect. Sometimes I think the only thing that stopped me from suiciding was my daughter, and the fact that I think suicide is an unforgivable sin. I was in constant torment and had to get out. I truly believe that God heard my many many prayer and saw my agony. I would probably be in an mental assylum by now if I stayed with him. It had a terrible affect on our 2 1/2 year old daughter, always seeing us fighting, and me crying. I stand by my decision to leave my ex-husband. God has forgiven me for my part in the divorce, and has blessed me with a 2nd chance. Glory to God!!!

 

[If Not For Grace]

"continuing to put yourself in danger is something else."

So is putting yourself in continual abuse or accepting unacceptable behavior. What if you spouse has an affair w/another man (or 2) and says I'm sorry I was just curious or drunk or whatever excuse w/keep you there.

DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY WON'T DO IT AGAIN.

A person who can conveniently "FORGET" they are married is using you honey, take it from someone who COMMITTED adultery (in a past life-bc)

Forgive? YES? Put up with it? NO...

 

[Jennifer615]

I completely agree with you dyanm. I just think that continual abuse is so much worse than one act of adultery, as bad as it is.

My ex is from Mexico, where we met when I was backpacking. To cut a long story short, we married and I returned to Australia a couple of months before him (paying his fare!). In this time he got back with his ex-girlfriend and made her pregnant. About 3 years later, after he had abused me so much by drinking, drugging and saying acid things to me, then repenting and treating me nice for a little while, I calculated the birth of his love child (who he said was conceived before he met me) when he admitted he got back with her when I was home feathering the nest. I was extremely upset, but forgave him. Knowing this was nowhere near as bad as how he had been treating me beforehand.

Later his addiction turned from alcohol and drugs to Amway. The abusive patterns continued. He would mentally, emotionally and spiritually abuse me, not in a drunk stupur, but in a brainwashed Amway stupur. That I couldn't cope with. We separated after 6 years of marriage and divorced 3 years later.

I'm just saying the revolution of adultery, as bad as it was, was not as bad as the constant abuse I suffered at his hands.

 

[seebs]

Please don't take this wrong, but I will always remember the story of the woman who could forgive beatings, alcohol and drug abuse, and sex with another woman, but dumped the guy when he got into Amway. I know that's not quite a fair description, but it's close, and it is awfully funny when you look at it that way.

That is a beautiful, beautiful, story. And, FWIW, I think you did the right thing. I think it's wonderful that God has given you a second chance to have a relationship worth having, and I am glad you got away from your abusive ex safely.

 

[Svt4Him]

Please don't take this wrong, but I will always remember the story of the woman who could forgive beatings, alcohol and drug abuse, and sex with another woman, but dumped the guy when he got into Amway. I know that's not quite a fair description, but it's close, and it is awfully funny when you look at it that way.

I would laugh at this, but then I'd think I wasn't being nice. So I'll laugh, just step away from the keyboard first. This one almost made coffee come out my nose.

 

[CaDan]

Later his addiction turned from alcohol and drugs to Amway. The abusive patterns continued. He would mentally, emotionally and spiritually abuse me, not in a drunk stupur, but in a brainwashed Amway stupur. That I couldn't cope with. We separated after 6 years of marriage and divorced 3 years later.

I'm just saying the revolution of adultery, as bad as it was, was not as bad as the constant abuse I suffered at his hands.

It must be very hard to sell a product whose name is deliberately calculated to remind one of "[The] Am[erican] way [of life]" in Oz!

I think I can see your reasoning, though. With booze and drugs, one can say, "Well, that's not him--that's his addiction." Although iwould contend that would be incorrect, I can understand it. But with a commercial venture / business cult, that excuse is no longer there.