Question about Adultery

[Henaynei]

Let us be cautious about seeming to paint all men or even one group of men with a broad brush....

Many of us, wounded from relationships, and many caring folk who have seen the wounding, all too easily can express our angst with overly broad categorizations

 

[seebs]

Let us be cautious about seeming to paint all men or even one group of men with a broad brush....

Many of us, wounded from relationships, and many caring folk who have seen the wounding, all too easily can express our angst with overly broad categorizations

Agreed. The problem here is not men, but a pattern where teachings are carefully adapted to keep women in bondage to men. This has happened several times; after a while, one begins to suspect a pattern.

 

[babyangel]

And then so-called Christian men twist Jesus' words to say you can divorce but you can't remarry, again keeping the woman in bondage.

Exactly, call me naive but, in the times of the OT and NT I could see men treating woman horribily (slavery etc) and thus God wanted to protect them, Times really have not changed but I think woman/men have more legal protection now adays but situations did not change. Bad spouses still have hard hearts and deal trecherously with some. This would never be allowed in Gods eyes I do not care what some scripures teach in the (well I do but) they are many scriputures that do infact support what I am going through. In some view my husband may not be an unbelier as I think he is, but no one can convince me that he is not worse than an unbeliever. I hate doubting the bible and I do not anymore, but why do so many churches want to turn good Christian memebers away, yet some of them are not following the bible themselves. They just follow what suits their needs.

 

[Grishnak]

Agreed. The problem here is not men, but a pattern where teachings are carefully adapted to keep women in bondage to men. This has happened several times; after a while, one begins to suspect a pattern.

Exactly.
Everytime that bell rings I start salivatin

 

[Grishnak]

Exactly, call me naive but, in the times of the OT and NT I could see men treating woman horribily (slavery etc) and thus God wanted to protect them, Times really have not changed but I think woman/men have more legal protection now adays but situations did not change. Bad spouses still have hard hearts and deal trecherously with some. This would never be allowed in Gods eyes I do not care what some scripures teach in the (well I do but) they are many scriputures that do infact support what I am going through. In some view my husband may not be an unbelier as I think he is, but no one can convince me that he is not worse than an unbeliever. I hate doubting the bible and I do not anymore, but why do so many churches want to turn good Christian memebers away, yet some of them are not following the bible themselves. They just follow what suits their needs.

Thats the problem with these doctrines out there.
As I stated, some adhere to the letter of 4 passages or so, yet ignore the context of the whole bible on the matters of Justice and Mercy.

Jesus shows a lawbreaker mercy when he defends Davids breaking of the law out of absolute necessity.

Wives dont always set out to sin, just like a hungry David did not.
But circumstance and extraordinary need permitted David to do what he wasnt lawfully allowed to do.

I just wonder if those that believe in this doctrine have even bothered to see that its women having to be protected from men in both the OT and the NEW.
That ought to tell them something as far as what their teaching.

A God who had Moses and the Christ BOTH come to the wives defence surely wouldnt be a God who would have them sit back and take abuse 2 millenia later.

"I desired Mercy and not sacrifice"

That one really blew me away when I first caught on to the depth of it.
We look at the OT, sacrifce throughout.

Then Jesus using it when His disciples were hungry is just awesome.

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
(Matthew 12:1-8 KJV)

Jesus is also the Lord of marriages.
I just dont see how one could believe that Hed put those pharisees in their place about just casting thier wives aside over hardness of their hearts, the turn around and allow them to beat and abuse the same wives.

Its just doesnt fit the context of who Jesus Christ was and is and shall always be.

As in that passage, extraordinary need requires extraordinary measures.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Jesus is also the Lord of marriages.
I just dont see how one could believe that Hed put those pharisees in their place about just casting thier wives aside over hardness of their hearts, the turn around and allow them to beat and abuse the same wives.

Its just doesnt fit the context of who Jesus Christ was and is and shall always be.

As in that passage, extraordinary need requires extraordinary measures.

 

[Yitzchak]

Concerning the original topic. The bottomline here is the two great commandments which Jesus gave when asked what is the greatest commandment. Maybe someone has the references. I don't recall the references.

Anyway, Jesus said the first great commandment is the shema , given in Deuteronomy. To love God with all your heart , soul, mind and heart. The second is the royal law given in Leviticus. Love you neighbor as yourself. Jesus said follow these two and you will fulfill the entire law. There is an interesting passage in James which talks about the royal law and gets into the whole concept of mercy triumphing over justice.

The royal law was also elaborated on in the story of the good samaritan. Where love is put above keeping the rules. I am sorry that I don't have the references handy for all of these. But maybe someone could provide those if youhave them.

 

[Svt4Him]

Agreed. The problem here is not men, but a pattern where teachings are carefully adapted to keep women in bondage to men. This has happened several times; after a while, one begins to suspect a pattern.

This is so far in left field I can't see the stands anymore. These same teachings keep men in bondage to women. If a woman is abusive, then the male goes throught the same issues, and don't be naive enough to say that women don't abuse men. Perhaps not physically, although they can, but I know of many times men have been abused. To say it's used for control is at best a shot in the dark, at worst totally throwing truth out.

 

[Yitzchak]

The thing is almost every bad arguement that a couple has can be contruesed as emotional abuse on the part of both of them. Personal attacks, yelling, emotional threats....... I think though that when abuse is talked about in the context of a woman leaving her husband for the sake of abuse, it is speaking of something more one-sided and much more serious than getting angry during an arguement.

We are all abused by bosses, bad drivers on the road, relatives, friends, clerks at the store.....That is if we define abuse as something potantially emotionally hurtful and wounding. But when we speak of an abusive person , we are not speaking of those types of things. We are speaking of someone who is in a pattern of behavior that is destructive to the other person's being either physically or emotionally

 

[seebs]

This is so far in left field I can't see the stands anymore. These same teachings keep men in bondage to women. If a woman is abusive, then the male goes throught the same issues, and don't be naive enough to say that women don't abuse men. Perhaps not physically, although they can, but I know of many times men have been abused. To say it's used for control is at best a shot in the dark, at worst totally throwing truth out.

I agree that these teachings go both ways.

However, in practice, in our culture, men abusing women is the more common case.

Check threads in this forum, and count women being beaten and told they have to stay, and count men being beaten and told they have to stay. There is a very serious disparity.

 

[Svt4Him]

I agree that these teachings go both ways.

However, in practice, in our culture, men abusing women is the more common case.

Check threads in this forum, and count women being beaten and told they have to stay, and count men being beaten and told they have to stay. There is a very serious disparity.

Yes, but how many men would post they are being abused? And any man saying he wants to divorce will be told to love their wife, or stay.

 

[seebs]

Yes, but how many men would post they are being abused? And any man saying he wants to divorce will be told to love their wife, or stay.

Male reporting of abuse is lower, but hospital records give us a fairly good picture of the comparative frequency of abuse serious enough to require medical care.

There is a disparity. Denying it will not make it go away. These passages are used asymmetrically, perhaps partially because the people charged with enforcing them are disproportionately male.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Yes, but how many men would post they are being abused? And any man saying he wants to divorce will be told to love their wife, or stay.

This raises a really good point.

I think what you are implying is that if a man is being beaten, he is less likely to tell anyone about it than is a woman, and because he's embarrassed to say what's really going on, he doesn't get the right kind of help and advice.

Now, I wonder just how many of the people who post here asking for marital advice are telling the whole story. I don't blame anyone for wanting to protect themselves, but let's be honest to say that not many of us would be able to give a perfectly objective assessment of our own situation without withholding some important but embarrassing detail. We may not think that detail is key to solving the problem, but it often may be. And how many of us put a spin on situations, whether our own or somebody else's, for all kinds of reasons - some that we're not even aware of?

 

[babyangel]

This raises a really good point.

I think what you are implying is that if a man is being beaten, he is less likely to tell anyone about it than is a woman, and because he's embarrassed to say what's really going on, he doesn't get the right kind of help and advice.

Now, I wonder just how many of the people who post here asking for marital advice are telling the whole story. I don't blame anyone for wanting to protect themselves, but let's be honest to say that not many of us would be able to give a perfectly objective assessment of our own situation without withholding some important but embarrassing detail. We may not think that detail is key to solving the problem, but it often may be. And how many of us put a spin on situations, whether our own or somebody else's, for all kinds of reasons - some that we're not even aware of?

Good point and that is why I continually say God knows all and sees all you can not hide anythinig from him. God knows the things that people may not be sharing, etc. But it is not for us to judge, it is for all of us to come together and make some sense of something that is so confusing that shouldnt be since God is a God of peace not confusion. I know what all the scriptures say and the 3 or 4 scriptures that say you cant divorce for any reason than fornication, but then there are dozens that contradict it. From my stand point I am a new Christian, and all of the debating cause me to want to turn away from Christ because I can not trust that I am his child and he will protect love and forgive me for not being able to live alone. I do not want to get divorced to go out and have sex. I just want a companion, and well if I cant have sex or live with a man maybe I can live with a woman as a companion, hope she doesnt want more from me. See what all these restricitons do to a person that can not handle it. Did I ask for my husband to be so cruel? NO All I ever did was love him the best I could. I sit and ask myself does God want this for me? What did I ever do to deserve this. I was told God doesnt choose our partners who we marry it is our own free will, but dont people make mistakes. What if a person did a complete jekyl and hyde like mine did. All sweet and nice till we moved in together once married. Yes I love God and want to put him first in my life, but reality check here, I can not raise a family on my own. I am afraid to be alone. (literally) I am with my kids every minute that I am not working. I get no rest, the husband takes them on Saturdays for sometimes a couple hours, sometimes longer, but wont give me any time frames, so I sit at home and wait for their return. I am still controlled by him. What is left in life for me? Whats the point of living. If I can not turn to the bible for love and comfort and forgiveness whats left? Does one stay with the abusive spouse and find a physical way out themselves and hurt the spouse back, is that what God is asking of one to do, take matters in their own hands, it is turning innocent people into bad people because of things that go through their minds. I believe God loves me, and in order to have that belief I have to keep going on the path I am going, that God will forgive me no matter what I decide.

 

[Grishnak]

Good point and that is why I continually say God knows all and sees all you can not hide anythinig from him. God knows the things that people may not be sharing, etc. But it is not for us to judge, it is for all of us to come together and make some sense of something that is so confusing that shouldnt be since God is a God of peace not confusion. I know what all the scriptures say and the 3 or 4 scriptures that say you cant divorce for any reason than fornication, but then there are dozens that contradict it. From my stand point I am a new Christian, and all of the debating cause me to want to turn away from Christ because I can not trust that I am his child and he will protect love and forgive me for not being able to live alone. I do not want to get divorced to go out and have sex. I just want a companion, and well if I cant have sex or live with a man maybe I can live with a woman as a companion, hope she doesnt want more from me. See what all these restricitons do to a person that can not handle it. Did I ask for my husband to be so cruel? NO All I ever did was love him the best I could. I sit and ask myself does God want this for me? What did I ever do to deserve this. I was told God doesnt choose our partners who we marry it is our own free will, but dont people make mistakes. What if a person did a complete jekyl and hyde like mine did. All sweet and nice till we moved in together once married. Yes I love God and want to put him first in my life, but reality check here, I can not raise a family on my own. I am afraid to be alone. (literally) I am with my kids every minute that I am not working. I get no rest, the husband takes them on Saturdays for sometimes a couple hours, sometimes longer, but wont give me any time frames, so I sit at home and wait for their return. I am still controlled by him. What is left in life for me? Whats the point of living. If I can not turn to the bible for love and comfort and forgiveness whats left? Does one stay with the abusive spouse and find a physical way out themselves and hurt the spouse back, is that what God is asking of one to do, take matters in their own hands, it is turning innocent people into bad people because of things that go through their minds. I believe God loves me, and in order to have that belief I have to keep going on the path I am going, that God will forgive me no matter what I decide.

Sister, put everything out of your mind for a sec.

Now remember what Paul said in the midst of all the talking in 1 Cor. 7
"but God has called us to peace"

That right there is the answer.
If you cannot live in peace with this man, then leave.
If you have already left, then dont go back unless he really has a heart change.

If divorced, dont look for another spouse, but and if you do marry, you do not sin.
Better to marry than to burn with passion.

Better to answer to God for not being able to handle this man than to live your life in hell just to placate a few CF members who have no understanding of what justice and mercy are all about.

 

[babyangel]

Thank you. I do not mean to come here and sound confused any longer with my statements. I have studied the bible and have come to peace with myself. I like adding scenerios as to how it makes one feel with such man made restrictions put on some for divorcing for good reason.

Sister, put everything out of your mind for a sec.

Now remember what Paul said in the midst of all the talking in 1 Cor. 7
"but God has called us to peace"

That right there is the answer.
If you cannot live in peace with this man, then leave.
If you have already left, then dont go back unless he really has a heart change.

If divorced, dont look for another spouse, but and if you do marry, you do not sin.
Better to marry than to burn with passion.

Better to answer to God for not being able to handle this man than to live your life in hell just to placate a few CF members who have no understanding of what justice and mercy are all about.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Oh no. I hope you didn't think I was condemning anyone for not telling the whole truth. I really doubt that any of us can. I was just pointing out that we may want to use some caution, rather than taking every story at face value. There's usually more to every story than any one person can tell. So those of us who hear only one side can only help so much. Come to think of it, even if we knew everything, we could only help so much.

...but still that doesn't mean we don't try to help.

 

[heartnsoul]

...but still that doesn't mean we don't try to help.

Exactly, I agree. That's where compassion and understanding plays into our posts so we are a help and encouragement to our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ instead of being perceived as negative, insensitive, judgemental and critical.

 

[babyangel]

Exactly, I agree. That's where compassion and understanding plays into our posts so we are a help and encouragement to our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ instead of being perceived as negative, insensitive, judgemental and critical.

I agree also

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Actually, I think the bible states that both parties, whether innocent or not are guilty of adultery if they remarry. It states that if you marry a divorced wife, you cause her to commit adultery..... I think the innocent is free to divorce, but not to remarry. However, I think that the passage is referring to the state of the heart. The truth is, God will forgive anyone of anything. I do believe that you could have messed up by having an affair, and later remarry and be blessed by God. The problem with adultery though, just like any other sin you commit, such as premarital sex, comes with consequences. Although God may indeed forgive you, you'll have to live with the natural consequences that the sins produces.


HB