Question 3

[ConfuseddotCom]

C

E

L

T

I

C

D

Sorry, can you explain your post?

 

[Robban]

I am currently reading Genesis, but it is not something I can take literally I'm afraid.

No need to be afraid, much blood has been spilt already because of sterile word for word obedience.
The sect of Sadducees were such minds.
They denied Oral Torah and the authority of the Sages.
They were expelled from the Sanhedrin in year 81BCE.
One would think that it was more these who were the "nasty" ones,
and not the Pharisees, who were people friendly and reform minded.
But there you go, it,s a matter of seeking with all one,s heart and mind.

 

[British One]

I'm a Creationist, but have great respect and value the opinions of Christian friends and family members who hold a different view.

As always our aim should be to search for the truth, but stand united with each other as we do this. So Christian's may well disagree as to the interpretation of Genesis 1 but that shouldn't mean we stop loving each other because of this.

Personally although I don't often agree with much he says, I do like Mike Huckabee's answer to this question...

Mike Huckabee responds to evolution question - YouTube

 

[Skyecatcher]

I saw spouts of liberal bashing so we go



I am a liberal who has enough faith in God to trust that the Genesis portion of the bible is exactly how it happened. If God said seven days, depicting what light and dark therefore showing what a day was then, then God meant seven days. He said the world flooded, and stressed the point a bunch of times, so therefore God flooded the entire earth.

I also eat meat, am anti abortion, and am a new gun owner

 

[Mr Dave]

Do all Christians believe the world started as described in Genesis?

No. In the UK hardly anyone does. Earlier this year I met someone who did believe this, and he is still the only person in this country I've ever met who holds to this view.

 

[Danny777]

I completely believe and trust that the Genesis account of creation happened exactly as described (ie in six literal days). Moses tells us in Ex 20:11 that, "in six days the LORD made the heaven and earth...". These words are a DIRECT quote from God to Moses! I presume we all agree the ten commandments literally mean exactly what they say. If God believes the world was created in six days and Genesis tells us the in clear language that the world was created in six days then I do too!!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

I completely believe and trust that the Genesis account of creation happened exactly as described (ie in six literal days). Moses tells us in Ex 20:11 that, "in six days the LORD made the heaven and earth...". These words are a DIRECT quote from God to Moses! I presume we all agree the ten commandments literally mean exactly what they say. If God believes the world was created in six days and Genesis tells us the in clear language that the world was created in six days then I do too!!

There are several threads on this forum dealing with the mistranslation of "YOM" into "day". Sorry to say this, but it's not actually what the original text says.

 

[tonybeer]

To those that think that the Genesis account is literally correct:

1. Are you aware that ALL of the scientific evidence points to it not being literally correct?

2. And if so, why would you ignore this? What is your criteria for ignoring evidence, is it just things that don't fit in with your beliefs?

No science evidence at the moment stops you believing that God say sparked the universe into life(there is nothing to support it though, it is totally unknown). However there is so so much evidence that Genesis is not correct.

This scientific evidence comes from many different fields of science as well. Biology, Paleontology, Physics, Geology etc etc.

 

[Danny777]

There are several threads on this forum dealing with the mistranslation of "YOM" into "day". Sorry to say this, but it's not actually what the original text says.

Please tell me how the word "YOM" should be translated in Genesis 1, given that we are provided with the context of evening and morning statements etc...

 

[Danny777]

To those that think that the Genesis account is literally correct:

1. Are you aware that ALL of the scientific evidence points to it not being literally correct?

2. And if so, why would you ignore this? What is your criteria for ignoring evidence, is it just things that don't fit in with your beliefs?

No science evidence at the moment stops you believing that God say sparked the universe into life(there is nothing to support it though, it is totally unknown). However there is so so much evidence that Genesis is not correct.

This scientific evidence comes from many different fields of science as well. Biology, Paleontology, Physics, Geology etc etc.

Hi Tony...

1. I am certainly not aware that ALL the scientific evidence points to Genesis not being correct.

2. There is therefore nothing to ignore....

Incidentally, a large part of faith in Christ came as a result of formally believing in evolution (as I guess you do) and looking into the actual evidence for it. It seemed to me that belief in evolution was largely based on ASSUMPTIONS from the past that cannot be tested or observed and in the end I choose to believe the Genesis account.

Neither one of us can prove or disprove the Genesis account...we both choose belief in one explanation for origins or the other. They are obviously not compatible with each other if you believe the text of Genesis means what it says.

To persuade me that ALL the evidence points to Genesis as being incorrect, please show ALL the evidence....

 

[tonybeer]

Evolution is not based on assumptions. You do however have to assume that God wasn't a prankster and made it that all the evidence on the Earth pointed towards evolution.

Evolution can be tested and observed. Any scientific theory must be testable and give predicitons about what we would expect to find in new evidence. The evidence supporting the theory of evolution is no less than that supporting the theory of gravity.

Just out of interest, if you've time do you mind just describing how you think the theory of evolution works and why you think it is making assumptions?

Science does disprove the literal Genesis account. We have good evidence that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Humans didn't all come from two people 6000 years ago. If they did we would see this in our genetic structure. There is lots more that doesn't tie in.

There is a problem when people start to say aspects of the story aren't literally true. I'd then have to address every single persons slightly different beliefs. I'm going off the literal account.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Please tell me how the word "YOM" should be translated in Genesis 1, given that we are provided with the context of evening and morning statements etc...

You could have looked for yourself, but here you go:

Word Study Yom

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts when you've read it.

 

[ianb321red]

deBunked - pt2 - God Doesn't Mean What He Says - YouTube

 

[Danny777]

Evolution is not based on assumptions. You do however have to assume that God wasn't a prankster and made it that all the evidence on the Earth pointed towards evolution.

Evolution can be tested and observed. Any scientific theory must be testable and give predicitons about what we would expect to find in new evidence. The evidence supporting the theory of evolution is no less than that supporting the theory of gravity.

I do not look around at the amazing complexity and order the world displays and conclude that this all happened by a random cosmic explosion/accident 4.5 billion years ago. I have never witnessed explosions or time create MORE order and complexity that existed before. The human brain is simply staggering - is it reasonable to conclude that the human brain formed of its own accord with no designer?

If I pointed to a garden bench and asked you to believe that it had no creator/designer, would you consider that a logical explanation for its existence? You might conclude it is possible for the garden bench to form of its own accord, but I suspect that if you left lots of pieces random wood scattered in a laboratory for a long period of time and then returned, you would not witness to evolution of a garden bench - it needs a maker and designer!

The world around us (indeed even our own bodies) is infinitely more complex than a garden bench - therefore, when I look at the world around me, I see evidence of a maker!

On the topic of gravity - I can test the theory of gravity EASILY...therefore I believe in gravity. I cannot however test what happened to a bunch elements in an explosion 4.5 billion years ago - therefore any speculation as to what happened IS speculation and cannot be tested. As a result, any belief of mine is no less valid than your belief...

 

[Danny777]

You could have looked for yourself, but here you go:

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts when you've read it.

Sorry, I should have seen this...

I accept that the word "YOM" can mean lots of different types of day.

I believe that in the Genesis account of creation, this word means a literaly 24-hour period of time as the word "YOM" can mean. This is largely because we are given the context of the day in the "evening and morning" statements.

Moreover, God Himself tells us in Ex 20:11 that that we are to work for six days and rest of the seventh BECAUSE the world was created in six days. This is not make much sense if this use of the word "yom" denoted a different length of time.

For me this could not be clearer. The word "yom" can mean 24 hour day, the context around the this use of the word "yom" confirms this and then God tells us using the context of a LITERAL seven day working week (that we still use now) that He created the world in six literal days...

I'm not sure how God could have made it any clearer - either we take Him at His word...or we don't....that's our choice!

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Sorry, I should have seen this...

I accept that the word "YOM" can mean lots of different types of day.

I believe that in the Genesis account of creation, this word means a literaly 24-hour period of time as the word "YOM" can mean. This is largely because we are given the context of the day in the "evening and morning" statements.

Moreover, God Himself tells us in Ex 20:11 that that we are to work for six days and rest of the seventh BECAUSE the world was created in six days. This is not make much sense if this use of the word "yom" denoted a different length of time.

For me this could not be clearer. The word "yom" can mean 24 hour day, the context around the this use of the word "yom" confirms this and then God tells us using the context of a LITERAL seven day working week (that we still use now) that He created the world in six literal days...

I'm not sure how God could have made it any clearer - either we take Him at His word...or we don't....that's our choice!

Ah, the power of tradition.

 

[tonybeer]

I do not look around at the amazing complexity and order the world displays and conclude that this all happened by a random cosmic explosion/accident 4.5 billion years ago. I have never witnessed explosions or time create MORE order and complexity that existed before. The human brain is simply staggering - is it reasonable to conclude that the human brain formed of its own accord with no designer?

If I pointed to a garden bench and asked you to believe that it had no creator/designer, would you consider that a logical explanation for its existence? You might conclude it is possible for the garden bench to form of its own accord, but I suspect that if you left lots of pieces random wood scattered in a laboratory for a long period of time and then returned, you would not witness to evolution of a garden bench - it needs a maker and designer!

The world around us (indeed even our own bodies) is infinitely more complex than a garden bench - therefore, when I look at the world around me, I see evidence of a maker!

On the topic of gravity - I can test the theory of gravity EASILY...therefore I believe in gravity. I cannot however test what happened to a bunch elements in an explosion 4.5 billion years ago - therefore any speculation as to what happened IS speculation and cannot be tested. As a result, any belief of mine is no less valid than your belief...

Yet you believe God is more advanced than us, yet needs no designer? Special Pleading.

There is so so much wrong with what you've said. You are not representing science correctly and have got a lot of dates and facts wrong.

You do not understand how evolution works. That is very clear from your bench analogy.

On evolution, you are using the blind watchmaker argument. I'd really suggest you read Dawkins "The Blind Watchmaker", or I think you can watch a bbc programme on youtube.

Are you saying that you can only tell if something is true if you see it?

 

[theFijian]

deBunked - pt2 - God Doesn't Mean What He Says - YouTube

And obviously you speak on behalf of God and no one else.

 

[Danny777]

Yet you believe God is more advanced than us, yet needs no designer? Special Pleading.

There is so so much wrong with what you've said. You are not representing science correctly and have got a lot of dates and facts wrong.

You do not understand how evolution works. That is very clear from your bench analogy.

On evolution, you are using the blind watchmaker argument. I'd really suggest you read Dawkins "The Blind Watchmaker", or I think you can watch a bbc programme on youtube.

Are you saying that you can only tell if something is true if you see it?

Of course I'm not saying I'll only believe something if I see it... I pointing out that we BOTH have faith/belief in different ideas.

I have read "The Blind Watchmaker" although this was some time ago...

We BOTH have belief in what we cannot explain...
I cannot prove HOW God created the world in six days - but I do believe he did.
You cannot PROVE this world came into being via evolutionary processes some 4.5 billion years ago, but you do believe that...

You originally said ALL the scientific evidence proved Genesis account was not correct - you haven't gone very far in showing me this abundant evidence...

We BOTH have faith, just in different things!!

 

[tonybeer]

I see you ignored my first line that you believe God is more advanced than us, yet he needs no designer?

This world - you mean the Earth? It didn't "come into being" via evolution. Evolution describes the adaptation of organisms to their environment.

Can you please describe how you think evolution works.

I cannot prove 100% the Earth is 4.5 billions years old. However all the scientific evidence points to that.

Any scientific evidence, and I have provided some so far, you will refuse to accept so I see no point providing more.

I have evidence on my side, and when I don't know something I will admit that. You however have no scientific evidence on your side.