Queen's Of Heaven

narnia59 said:

I simply do not have time to acknowledge all of this. But "twilight zone"? Try concocting a story that has people at the wedding are drunk (instead of having had drunk wine), that Mary asks Jesus to do something sinful (create wine) and that what Jesus actually creates is "better wine" that's not fermented? Ok.

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You said "'Woman what have I to do with you?' is Jesus dismissing her, showing that he is his own man. Notice how Jesus doesn't call her mother. Nowhere in scripture does Jesus refer to Mary as his mother" and when I pointed out that Scripture most certainly acknowledges Jesus as mother, you backtrack with "I never said Jesus did not acknowledge her as her mother".

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If you believe that Jesus publicly "dismisses" her to "show that he's his own man" and associate that with her "never calling her mother" -- then you are essentially accusing him of showing her little to no respect. That's the bottom line.

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I would also suggest you look up the word "rather" in the dictionary, and instead of interpreting that to mean "on the contrary", try the first definition "with better reason" or "more correctly speaking". Jesus statement that "rather blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it". Jesus is not dismissing the blessing Mary received in being his mother (as Elizabeth under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit professes). He is pointing that with better reason Mary, and those like her will be blessed for hearing the word of God and keeping it.

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And "going about his father's business" doesn't equate to his having a ministry? Teaching in the temple has nothing to do with this ministry?

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You say "Where does it say that in the scriptures? I have read Luke 2 and all it says is Jesus was sitting with the teachers, listened to them and asking them questions" Jesus questions his parents with "Do you not know that I must be about my Father's business"? So yes, he was ready to go, and they do curtail him, and the Scripture says he was obedient to them.

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The basic problem with all of this is not that Catholics "elevate" Mary to the level of God. It's that we recognize that God elevated Mary above the rest of us when he chose her to become the mother of the Eternal Word. That's the general rub for many people -- Mary can't possibly be any more important in the kingdom of God than me.

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SMA12 said:

She is the only one to be called "full of grace" anywhere in scripture.

The actual term in Greek (the original language that Luke was written in) is “kecharitomene,” which is the perfect passive participle of the Greek word “charitoo” (grace). In other words, kecharitomene means “You who have been graced" And when you add the word “full” to kecharitomene, Gabriel is calling Mary by her new title of “You who have been filled with grace.” And as anyone knows, when you are full of anything, there is no room left over for anything else..[/QUOTE]

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You seem to be under the impression that grace, which is a non tangible
thing, is the same as something tangible which occupies space. This is
completely ridiculous


You're saying Mary being full of grace = No sin. This is what is called a
false dichotomy.

Luke 1 says John the Baptist was filled with the holy ghost from birth

Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord,
and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the
Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

John was filled with the Holy Ghost from birth and as anyone knows, when you are full of anything, there is no room left over for anything else. therefore I conclude that John was sinless from birth( See, I can do that to). I just created a false dichotomy.

John the Baptist being full of the holy spirit = no sin = false dichotomy

Mary being full of grace = no sin = false dichotomy

I'll point you to FreddyCast's response too (Post #57) he explains it very well

Consider this: Eve, without sin, let sin (eternal death) enter the world by giving her "yes" to a bad angel, Satan. Mary, without sin, let Jesus (eternal life) enter the world by giving her "yes" to a good angel, Gabriel.

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You need to prove Mary was sinless for this explanation to work

Mary has been regarded as the New Eve since the earliest centuries of the Church by the Church Fathers.

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Doesn't mean it's right.

You mean the woman who touched Jesus didn't die like the person who touched the Ark?

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He died because he disobeyed Gods Commandment

Numbers 4:15 And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Good thing Mary remained "untouched".

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Mary had sex with joseph. Even the bible versions Catholics say they read
state it clearly.

The Ark was not to be worshipped (Jesus is to be worshipped),

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Of Couse not, the ark wasn't God, we have to use common sense here.

but giving it great reverence did not take anything away from the worship of God. But to irreverence the Ark was a grave sin indeed- as you alluded to when the man touched it. Remind you of how Catholics treat Mary?

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So you're saying if I say Mary was blessed, that she was a sinner like the rest of us and that she wasn't a virgin her whole life then I am irreverencing her?

Exactly Jesus is literally the Word of God. The Ark contained the Word of God inside of it. Mary contained Jesus inside of her.

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Jesus would have left his mothers womb after about six months, as far as I have read the stone tablets were never taking out of the ark after they were placed in there.
You're just making convenient correlations where it suits your Marian beliefs.

It also contained Manna, bread for earthly life, and the rod of the high priest. The Ark wasnt these things, but contained them. Jesus is the bread of eternal life and the eternal priest. Again Mary contained Jesus.

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Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

That doesn't sound like sweet ol' Mary at all, that sounds more like the very power of God.
I would apply Occam's razor here (the most logical answer is usually the correct one) and say this is either Jesus or the actual ark from the OT.
I don't know where you guys get New Ark Of The Covenant from. It doesn't say anything about it being new.

Mary has also been regarded as the Ark of the New Covenant since the Early Church.

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Again, it doesn't automatically make it right. A lot of what Catholics believe are not found in early Christianity.

He did not have many literal mothers.

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Jesus makes no distinction between his literal mother and his spiritual
mother. If God says your his mother than you should have equal right to
queenship.

That's because I agree that she is indeed the handmaiden of The Lord. This doesn't mean she cannot also be Queen. As I said the Queen served the King in the Davidic Kingdom as in the Heavenly Kingdom.

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I didn't know you could have two jobs in heaven. I find it kind of funny how Catholics make up the rules as they go along.

The Truth About Mary and Scripture: MUST SEE! - YouTube

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I'll watch this when I have time and if I remember. I doubt I'll hear anything I haven't heard before.
new

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KNOWLEDGE BOMB said:

The queen of heaven didn't belong to Mary always you know....


The queen was first known as ASTARTE the goddess of the planet Venus

she was called ISHTAR by the assyrians and babylonians

She was known as ASHTORETH by the Phoenicians and some canaanites


She is mentioned in Jeremiah 7:18, 44:17-25

they honored her in 3 ways:

1. They burnt incense to her
2. They poured out drink offerings to her
3. They made cakes to her


Another thing these queens were known for is helping women get pregnant motherhood nursing etc...



Now we get to MARY the Queen of Heaven and what can I say about her that I haven't already said......

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