Q to Messianic Jews: Why do you accept Jesus?

[Alkhazred]

Bnei Noah or Christianity?
Hi, everyone. It's the first time I'm in the sub-forum of Messianic Judaism. I decided to write here, because, I think, many people up here could possibly speak Hebrew and know Torah.

I've read at the Jewish site Aish this article (I quote it not complete):

1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH
A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET
Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID
The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!
C. TORAH OBSERVANCE
The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS
Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.
A. VIRGIN BIRTH
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
​

I would love to know the opinion of Messianic Jews. How do they explain these discrepancies, and why do they nevertheless accept Jesus?
I was a practicing Muslim for more than ten years, but after some historical research, I understand that the first Christians never believed somebody (Muhammad) be greater than Jesus, and most of them believed in the Resurrection, what is contrary to the Quran dogma about the substitution of prophet Jesus, and his inferiority towards Muhammad. Not sure about Jesus, but believing in G-d of Israel, I've accepted the religion of Bnei Noah. Maybe, Jesus is the REAL Messiah and Son of God?

 

[Eben Abram]

Shalom Alecheim
Asaalam alekeim

I would ask, why not?, but you are not asking that now are you?

I suppose you will only accept facts so, I will say this, did Mohammed talk to allah?

Did Y'shua talk to his Father in Heaven?

The bottom line you can't accept and can't change is this:

I asked, I got a response.

My G-d is of the Living and the Dead.

If I were telling you to follow the Koran, I would say, Read Mohammed's teachings etc.

If I were telling you to follow G-d, I would say get alone, get real get to a place where Allah responds, or find the god that does.

When You Do, Serve Him.

Whoever that is.

As for me (smile) I have my response and can only serve the one who speaks to me......

alekeim asaalam

Alecheim Shalom

Eben Abram

 

[christinepro]

Bnei Noah or Christianity?
Hi, everyone. It's the first time I'm in the sub-forum of Messianic Judaism. I decided to write here, because, I think, many people up here could possibly speak Hebrew and know Torah.

I've read at the Jewish site Aish this article (I quote it not complete):

1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH
A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET
Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID
The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!
C. TORAH OBSERVANCE
The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS
Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.
A. VIRGIN BIRTH
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
​

I would love to know the opinion of Messianic Jews. How do they explain these discrepancies, and why do they nevertheless accept Jesus?
I was a practicing Muslim for more than ten years, but after some historical research, I understand that the first Christians never believed somebody (Muhammad) be greater than Jesus, and most of them believed in the Resurrection, what is contrary to the Quran dogma about the substitution of prophet Jesus, and his inferiority towards Muhammad. Not sure about Jesus, but believing in G-d of Israel, I've accepted the religion of Bnei Noah. Maybe, Jesus is the REAL Messiah and Son of God?

Isaiah 9:
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.

Isaiah 53

1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken. [b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ;
by his knowledge [f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.


Etc...


Yeshua came as a lamb and will return as a Lion to fulfill more prophecy. You should read the book "Case for Christ". In Matthew it also states that Mary was a virgin until after his birth. Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."
All of the religions came from one that is why the pagan beliefs are so similar. Look at the Mayans; They even took the sacrificial system a notch further and sacrificed humans. How come they had the sacrificial system? I saw this secular documentary that stated they traced the DNA of mankind to the middle east.

 

[christinepro]

I think that a big testamony for me is that I went to see the Davincy Code movie and I came home and opened my bible and it said "
Romans 16:17-19 (New International Version)


17I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. 19Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

 

[anisavta]

Why would I accept Yeshua as Messiah? I'd be a fool not to.
Now that you have gone on Aish and read why Yeshua did not fulfill prophecy here is a small chart of prophecies that He did fulfill. And this is not the complete list. Google Yeshua (or Jesus) fulfills prophecy and see what comes up.
The Messiah must...ProphecyFulfillment by JesusBe born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-7Be adored by great persons Psalms 72:10-11Matthew 2:1-11Be annointed with the Spirit of God Isaiah 11:2, 61:1Matthew 3:16; John 3:34; Acts 10:38Be hated without cause Isaiah 49:7; Psalms 69:4John 15:24-25Be undesired and rejected by His own people Isaiah 53:2, 63:3; Psalms 69:8Mark 6:3; Luke 9:58; John 1:11, http://www.bprc.org/bible/WEB/John/7.html#3Be plotted against by Jews and Gentiles together Psalms 2:1-2Acts 4:27Be betrayed by a friend Psalms 41:9, 55:12-24Matthew 26:21-25, 47-50; John 13:18-21; Acts 1:16-18Be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12Matthew 26:16Have his price given for a potter’s field Zechariah 11:13Matthew 27:7Be forsaken by His disciples Zechariah 13:7Matthew 26:31, 56Be struck on the cheek Micah 5:1Matthew 27:30Be spat on Isaiah 50:6Matthew 26:67, 27:30Be mocked Psalms 22:7-8Matthew 27:31, 39-44Be beaten Isaiah 50:6Matthew 26:67, 27:26, 30Be thirsty during His execution Psalms 22:15John 19:28Be given vinegar to quench that thirst Psalms 69:21Matthew 27:34Be considered a transgressor Isaiah 53:12Matthew 27:38Be buried with the rich when dead Isaiah 53:9Matthew 27:57-60Be sought after by Gentiles as well as Jews Isaiah 11:10, 42:1Acts 10:45Be accepted by the Gentiles Isaiah 11:10, 42:1-4, 49:1-12Matthew 12:21; Acts 10:

 

[Tishri1]

And He is not finished yet He said He will return again and establish His Kingdom(God's Kingdom)

 

[Eben Abram]

Why would I accept Yeshua as Messiah? I'd be a fool not to.
Now that you have gone on Aish and read why Yeshua did not fulfill prophecy here is a small chart of prophecies that He did fulfill. And this is not the complete list. Google Yeshua (or Jesus) fulfills prophecy and see what comes up.
The Messiah must...ProphecyFulfillment by JesusBe born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2Matthew 2:1; Luke 2:4-7Be adored by great persons Psalms 72:10-11Matthew 2:1-11Be annointed with the Spirit of God Isaiah 11:2, 61:1Matthew 3:16; John 3:34; Acts 10:38Be hated without cause Isaiah 49:7; Psalms 69:4John 15:24-25Be undesired and rejected by His own people Isaiah 53:2, 63:3; Psalms 69:8Mark 6:3; Luke 9:58; John 1:11, Be plotted against by Jews and Gentiles together Psalms 2:1-2Acts 4:27Be betrayed by a friend Psalms 41:9, 55:12-24Matthew 26:21-25, 47-50; John 13:18-21; Acts 1:16-18Be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12Matthew 26:16Have his price given for a potter’s field Zechariah 11:13Matthew 27:7Be forsaken by His disciples Zechariah 13:7Matthew 26:31, 56Be struck on the cheek Micah 5:1Matthew 27:30Be spat on Isaiah 50:6Matthew 26:67, 27:30Be mocked Psalms 22:7-8Matthew 27:31, 39-44Be beaten Isaiah 50:6Matthew 26:67, 27:26, 30Be thirsty during His execution Psalms 22:15John 19:28Be given vinegar to quench that thirst Psalms 69:21Matthew 27:34Be considered a transgressor Isaiah 53:12Matthew 27:38Be buried with the rich when dead Isaiah 53:9Matthew 27:57-60Be sought after by Gentiles as well as Jews Isaiah 11:10, 42:1Acts 10:45Be accepted by the Gentiles Isaiah 11:10, 42:1-4, 49:1-12Matthew 12:21; Acts 10:

Did I hear Google it?



LOL

 

[christianmomof3]

I was raised in Reform Judaism and was never taught anything about the messiah at all. I did not become a Christian because I thought Jesus was the messiah. I became a Christian because the Lord revealed Himself to me as Jesus and He is the One and only God of the universe.
As far as the prophesies - they will all be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

 

[Eben Abram]

I was raised in Reform Judaism and was never taught anything about the messiah at all. I did not become a Christian because I thought Jesus was the messiah. I became a Christian because the Lord revealed Himself to me as Jesus and He is the One and only God of the universe.
As far as the prophesies - they will all be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

I agree!!!! WOO HOOO

LOL

If for any reason at all, that a person believes in "Jesus" for any reason less than this, I would have to say, they are not following religion and idealism, they need to go to the source and work it out with HIM.

Alecheim Shalom

Eben

 

[ContraMundum]

Growing up, Judaism was more like a set of chores that sometimes were enjoyable but mostly played little part in my developing a relationship with God- if I even thought there could be one, which I didn't give much mind to. To me, holiness was something you read about others doing and the rest of the people in a somewhat futile attempt were just trying to do, if at all, because most Jews I know/knew didn't care too much for all that religious stuff.

I was initially drawn to interest in Jesus because of His teaching, which I read in the New Testament and found hard to refute because of His clarity and direct addressing of issues. Later, I had a powerful encounter with Him and this was what constituted my conversion- it wasn't a conversion done by arguments, but by confession resulting in power and experience.

Later still, I soon discovered that most of what the anti-missionary sites said were not necessarily true, and often some objections did not even apply to orthodox Christian doctrine. I found them to be very choosy in their interpretation of the NT, and using a more recently developed paradigm in their interpretation of the Tanach. I found that Christianity had a solid, firm foundation in the Judaism of the 1stC AD, and most objections to it from the anti-missionaries were based on narrowed down formulas that have become popular since only the middle ages.

Anyway- I don't think anyone can be saved apart from God's activity in their life, so I leave the conversions to Him.

 

[arizonasunset]

I was raised in a pseduo-Christian setting. At the age of 40 I discovered my Jewish heritage. But it made sense for the difficulty and struggles I had with accepting God needed a Son. It made sense in a gazillion different areas of my life as well.

However, there was much to the N.T. I found applicable and it tied into the O.T.

It hasn't been until the last five years that I have actually been studying the N.T

Even though I taught my children about Jesus Christ being the only way to the Father- they struggle intensely with the concept that God needs a son or anything because He is God.
They also revealed that I did not talk as much about Jesus Christ as I thought I did.

They embrace the Judaism. Unfortunately we're not acceptable even among them.

However, like so many here I had a powerful encounter where there was no doubt that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and the Son of Man.

 

[Observer2008]

u r pointing to the whole difference of orthodox judaism & christianity (or messianism). judaism says gentiles thru other faith can earn a proper portion of heaven. catholism says it doesnt mean people of other faith have to go to hell, or cannot grow. so what a big deal of those differences?

 

[Eben Abram]

u r pointing to the whole difference of orthodox judaism & christianity (or messianism). judaism says gentiles thru other faith can earn a proper portion of heaven. catholism says it doesnt mean people of other faith have to go to hell, or cannot grow. so what a big deal of those differences?

Shalom ALecheim

Ahhh.....no.

Eben

 

[Alkhazred]

Thank you all for your answers. But still, you haven't said, how do you explain these discrepancies between Torah and the life of Jesus.
1)Messiah shall gather the Jewish people;
2)Messiah shall establish the peace in the World;
3)Messiah shall be from the line of David by father line;
4)Messiah shall build the Third Temple;
5)Messiah shall bring the Jewish people to the observance of Torah.
And what about these verses from Torah, which clearly say about the Messianic war and the gathering all Jewish people together?:

Then it will happen on that day that the Lord Will again recover the second time with His hand The remnant of His people, who will remain, From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, And from the islands of the sea.And He will lift up a standard for the nations. And assemble the banished ones of Israel, And will gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth. Then the jealousy of Ephraim will depart, And those who harass Judah will be cut off; Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah, And Judah will not harass Ephraim. They will swoop down on the slopes of the Philistines on the west; Together they will plunder the sons of the east; They will possess Edom and Moab, And the sons of Ammon will be subject to them. And the LORD will utterly destroy The tongue of the Sea of Egypt; And He will wave His hand over the River With His scorching wind; And He will strike it into seven streams And make men walk over dry-shod. And there will be a highway from Assyria For the remnant of His people who will be left, Just as there was for Israel In the day that they came up out of the land of Egypt. (Isaiah 11:11-16)

 

[The Time Traveller]

If His Heavenly Father accepted Him why do you not?

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of
the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he
saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon
him:
3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son,
in whom I am well pleased.

That's good enough for me.

If you really knew what He went through to obtain our salvation you would get down on your knees and call upon Him for mercy and salvation.

 

[Eben Abram]

Thank you all for your answers. But still, you haven't said, how do you explain these discrepancies between Torah and the life of Jesus.
1)Messiah shall gather the Jewish people;
2)Messiah shall establish the peace in the World;
3)Messiah shall be from the line of David by father line;
4)Messiah shall build the Third Temple;
5)Messiah shall bring the Jewish people to the observance of Torah.
And what about these verses from Torah, which clearly say about the Messianic war and the gathering all Jewish people together?:

Shalom ALecheim

Simple.

YOUR issue is NOT seeking to KNOW if He is alive and LET HIM expalin it to you.

YOU Choose to pick and Choose what you want to mentally assert as true and you cannot because you make yourself the arbitrator of your own doubt.

But G-d knew that, He said, It is not about a mental assertion but a factual intervention.

You must alone and with God, intervene together to find out what is true and what is a lie.

Till then you serve a dead religion or a dead god, but if you serve and follow a Living G-d, He then can answer you objections.

My L-rd and My G-d is alive and yes, I do Seek and do Speak to Him and He with me.

Till you can say the same, you have no idea what I am talking about.

Eben

 

[ContraMundum]

Thank you all for your answers. But still, you haven't said, how do you explain these discrepancies between Torah and the life of Jesus.
1)Messiah shall gather the Jewish people;
2)Messiah shall establish the peace in the World;
3)Messiah shall be from the line of David by father line;
4)Messiah shall build the Third Temple;
5)Messiah shall bring the Jewish people to the observance of Torah.
And what about these verses from Torah, which clearly say about the Messianic war and the gathering all Jewish people together?:

Who's criteria are they? That is the question. We know these are the current modern day Rabbinic Jewish criteria. As I hinted in my answer- those rather narrowed-down criteria are a post-Jesus filtration of many previous positions within Judaism. At the time of Christ, there were many different understandings of what the Messiah would bring. We believe that Jesus answered them: how we should worship, how we should follow the Law, how we should be holy and what the true Kingdom is. Since those times, the criteria of the unbelievers have become somewhat different, and thus, they ask all the wrong questions, because these questions only represent one possible point of view, which is now become dogma among some Jewish circles.

We, like many ancient Jewish sources concur, believe Messiah will have two advents. Futhermore that while He does even now bring peace to the whole world (the world is free to reject this peace-the current age being a period of grace preceeding final judgment) He will consumate this peace in the temporal sense on His second advent. The third Temple is not a Temple made from hands, but the true Temple that physical Temples only poorly represented, the true Temple being found in Heaven and in the heart and that we believe that He defined how true Torah observance should look, not just for Jews but also for Gentiles, a life of love for God and neighbour that goes far beyond physical observances alone (yet it does not deny physical observances either). Note: Some Messianic Jews, influenced by modern American protestant thought, have a rather chiliastic view of the Second Advent, and while it is not considered heretical, it is a rather new spin on some ancient understandings of the Bible.

This is too big a subject to pursue here, and more than once this forum has been plagued by insincere seekers on this topic, and hence, we tend to be a little cautious when sharing the details of our faith.

I heartily recommend books- not the internet, which any serious enquirer should avoid- on this topic.

Here's some- try this, this, this, and the most excellent these.

Hope they help: see ya in a year or so!

 

[Alkhazred]

ContraMundum wrote:

Who's criteria are they? That is the question. We know these are the current modern day Rabbinic Jewish criteria. As I hinted in my answer- those rather narrowed-down criteria are a post-Jesus filtration of many previous positions within Judaism. At the time of Christ, there were many different understandings of what the Messiah would bring. We believe that Jesus answered them: how we should worship, how we should follow the Law, how we should be holy and what the true Kingdom is. Since those times, the criteria of the unbelievers have become somewhat different, and thus, they ask all the wrong questions, because these questions only represent one possible point of view, which is now become dogma among some Jewish circles.

OK, I have been informed several times now, that at the time of Jesus there were multiple explanations of signs of Torah concerning Messiah. Let's take it as a fact. But, what about the part of Torah, mentionned in the my first post to gather Jewish people? Jesus never did it, he was preaching the repentance, the charity, and not to think to much about the materialistic things of this world. His sermons were never political.

The third Temple is not a Temple made from hands, but the true Temple that physical Temples only poorly represented, the true Temple being found in Heaven and in the heart and that we believe that He defined how true Torah observance should look, not just for Jews but also for Gentiles, a life of love for God and neighbour that goes far beyond physical observances alone (yet it does not deny physical observances either). rather new spin on some ancient understandings of the Bible.

OK, I understood. It's written in Torah about the Holy place, but not necessary the Temple of Jerusalem.

This is too big a subject to pursue here, and more than once this forum has been plagued by insincere seekers on this topic, and hence, we tend to be a little cautious when sharing the details of our faith.

I can assure you, I am A VERY SERIOUS, G-D FEARING and PEOPLE-ANNOYING seeker. Maybe we can talk about in the private messaging?

I heartily recommend books- not the internet, which any serious enquirer should avoid- on this topic.



Hope they help: see ya in a year or so!

I would love to read them, but it will take a lot of time to order them, or to find them in France. And, I have to write also similar books of Jewish preachers, otherwise I wouldn't be honest towards G-d. What do you think, am I right? I mean, I was Muslim for 10 years, and I objectively discovered, the first Christians believed in the Resurrection, did the Euchariste and NEVER thought somebody be greater than Jesus (contrary to what Quran tells they believed).

 

[Eben Abram]

Shalom ALecheim

I hate this answer but in fact, it is a fact.

If you Use a little savy and google each objection, you can get a wealth of opinions....

I am opposite of the above poster; NEVER think you have to BUY an answer...

That is almost disgusting.

The Web has as much fact as it does fancy and you can be led as easy on the Web by God as He can do for you in person alone with Him, but either way, you can learn and follow your mind, or uncover and follow your heart.

I say, Ask God, he hasn't failed anyone yet.

Eben

 

[SarahJoy]

Thank you all for your answers. But still, you haven't said, how do you explain these discrepancies between Torah and the life of Jesus.
1)Messiah shall gather the Jewish people;
2)Messiah shall establish the peace in the World;
3)Messiah shall be from the line of David by father line;
4)Messiah shall build the Third Temple;
5)Messiah shall bring the Jewish people to the observance of Torah.
And what about these verses from Torah, which clearly say about the Messianic war and the gathering all Jewish people together?:

I know that I am young and unlearned in many areas, but I would like to share my point of view. I think that the above points are going to be fulfilled in the end times leading into the new world. No! I don't think they have been fulfilled... yet, but they will be soon.

As for Yahshua being of the lineage of David, I have do doubt about it. But it is difficult to explain. Yahshua was not actually, physically the son of Joseph. He had no actually, physical father. But He grew up in Joseph's house as his son. Because He is of Joseph's house, He is also of David's. Let's say for example that you have no father, you are an orphan. The people that brought you up had adopted you when you were born. You call them Mother and Father; you call their parents Grandma and Grandad. You have become apart of that family; you have taken on their name, theirs believes and values, nothing can separate them from you, they are your family.

There are also two geneologies of the Messiah. Matt. 1 and Luke 3:23-38. If you notice both are completely different. It is thought that one is Joseph's geneology and one is Mary's. If so, then Yahshua does not need Joseph to be related to king David. He is so through Mary.

This is all refering to His physical body. But He does not have a physical body anymore because He is in heaven. He is not the Son of Joseph or David, but only the Son of God.

Matt 22:42 ...What think ye of Christ? Whose son is He? They say unto Him, The son of David. 43. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call Him Lord, saying, 44. The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45. If David then call him Lord; how is He his son?