Python ban

XB3LI3V3RX · Jul 26, 2013

I've recently been becoming more and more into reptiles. I've always loved reptiles (I have a couple right now), but just recently have started looking into all the reptiles businesses and expos. I found this article after watching a video of one of my newest favorite reptile owners.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/17/us/florida-python-ban
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...SUsoFw&usg=AFQjCNG4_sU1YHSQugEORikPt7rViIBePw
I know this is a bit old, but this is upsetting knowing that some government officials can just decide that pet owners aren't responsible so they can make it illegal to transport these new species added to this list. I agree that people shouldn't release these animals, but banning them all over the U.S. isn't the right approach (especially when it's only a couple bad pet owners and many, many good pet owners targeted for this). The problem only seems to be with the Everglades anyway, so why not just make the people have to have permits down there to own these species? I'm not understanding any logic behind any of this.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

USincognito · Jul 27, 2013

Is Hulk Hogan aware of this?

PersephonesTear · Jul 27, 2013

I don't live in Florida, but most of my family does. It is my understanding that certain areas of Florida have been devastated by invasive species such as pythons - and by pythons in particular.

I see no problem with regulations on certain types of pets, but I also think that these sorts of laws should be regulated at as local a level as possible. So if county regulations are feasible, then go for county regulations. If there is a problem that sweeps across several counties, then go ahead and address it at the state level. Federal law should only be fallen back upon either in the direst of circumstances, or when the regulations involve importing foreign animals from another country into our country.

The reason that I think it IS okay to have regulations, PARTICULARLY at a city or county level, is the fact that we do not live in a bubble apart from other people. We have neighbors, and we need to be courteous of our neighbors' feelings (just as they should be courteous of ours). There are certain types of exotic pets that people are very justified in their fears of having them too close - venomous snakes, large cats, and ect. Within your own community, folks should be able to come to a compromise that shows consideration toward each other - such as, "Okay, you can have a pet tiger, but only if you meet certain standards to ensure the safety of the animal and your neighbors."

Some people won't want to compromise - either they'll want to have what they want whether they can afford proper housing or not, or they'll insist that no such animals should ever live near them. That is why government does need to have some involvement here, but again it should be as local as possible.

In the case of pythons, the issue in Florida isn't necessarily about people fearing for their personal safety, but moreso residents fearing the destruction of their natural resources. This is also a valid fear - nature belongs to all of us, and all of us are responsible for caring for it together, as a team. It is not right for a few people to release a destructive animal into the ecosystem that can damage the native species. That leaves a huge mess for other people to clean up.

I don't see why it wouldn't be better for people to have to register pythons, and then give an accounting for them yearly - Do you still have your python? If not, then why not? Where did it go? Do you have proof of sale or proof of death? If not, then you get a huge fine.

But maybe they have gone the route of banning because there are too many man hours involved, and they feel that time and resources are better spent on other problems.

XB3LI3V3RX · Jul 27, 2013

Moonpup said:
I don't live in Florida, but most of my family does. It is my understanding that certain areas of Florida have been devastated by invasive species such as pythons - and by pythons in particular.

I see no problem with regulations on certain types of pets, but I also think that these sorts of laws should be regulated at as local a level as possible. So if county regulations are feasible, then go for county regulations. If there is a problem that sweeps across several counties, then go ahead and address it at the state level. Federal law should only be fallen back upon either in the direst of circumstances, or when the regulations involve importing foreign animals from another country into our country.

The reason that I think it IS okay to have regulations, PARTICULARLY at a city or county level, is the fact that we do not live in a bubble apart from other people. We have neighbors, and we need to be courteous of our neighbors' feelings (just as they should be courteous of ours). There are certain types of exotic pets that people are very justified in their fears of having them too close - venomous snakes, large cats, and ect. Within your own community, folks should be able to come to a compromise that shows consideration toward each other - such as, "Okay, you can have a pet tiger, but only if you meet certain standards to ensure the safety of the animal and your neighbors."

Some people won't want to compromise - either they'll want to have what they want whether they can afford proper housing or not, or they'll insist that no such animals should ever live near them. That is why government does need to have some involvement here, but again it should be as local as possible.

In the case of pythons, the issue in Florida isn't necessarily about people fearing for their personal safety, but moreso residents fearing the destruction of their natural resources. This is also a valid fear - nature belongs to all of us, and all of us are responsible for caring for it together, as a team. It is not right for a few people to release a destructive animal into the ecosystem that can damage the native species. That leaves a huge mess for other people to clean up.

I don't see why it wouldn't be better for people to have to register pythons, and then give an accounting for them yearly - Do you still have your python? If not, then why not? Where did it go? Do you have proof of sale or proof of death? If not, then you get a huge fine.

But maybe they have gone the route of banning because there are too many man hours involved, and they feel that time and resources are better spent on other problems.

I totally agree that this shouldn't have been a federal law. I like your reasoning behind that. I also agree with what you said about regulations on pets. Some pets are just too much to handle for some people, so they should have to have a permit or something similar to that to show they know what they are actually doing instead of just releasing animals they don't want anymore. I just don't think every reptile owner in the U.S. should have to be forced to obey this when the problem only seems to be around Florida, so that's why I like your idea of a county or state regulation instead of them going straight to a nation wide level.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

morningstar2651 · Jul 27, 2013

My first thought when I saw this thread title was "What's wrong with white-space dependent languages?"

XB3LI3V3RX · Jul 27, 2013

morningstar2651 said:
My first thought when I saw this thread title was "What's wrong with white-space dependent languages?"

What is that supposed to mean?

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

bsd31 · Jul 27, 2013

XB3LI3V3RX said:
I totally agree that this shouldn't have been a federal law. I like your reasoning behind that. I also agree with what you said about regulations on pets. Some pets are just too much to handle for some people, so they should have to have a permit or something similar to that to show they know what they are actually doing instead of just releasing animals they don't want anymore. I just don't think every reptile owner in the U.S. should have to be forced to obey this when the problem only seems to be around Florida, so that's why I like your idea of a county or state regulation instead of them going straight to a nation wide level.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

The problem is exclusive to a very tiny microcosm of Florida. It's not even statewide. It's basically the extreme southern portions of the Everglades and south. When the USFWS added the burms, rock pythons, and yellow anaconda to the Lacey Act everyone in the reptile community knew they wouldn't stop there.

The USFWS along with the Humane Society of the United States, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and some other groups have waged all out warfare against reptile owners.

The HSUS had this to say back in May of this year (2013) -

Allowing private possession of these dangerous reptiles threatens public safety, environmental health, and the welfare of the animals themselves.

Source

Then further into the article they go on to say -

Since 1990, 12 people have died from constrictor snake-related incidents in the United States (17 deaths since 1978), and scores of adults and children have been seriously injured during attacks by these deadly predators.

17 people have been killed since 1978. 35 years. Compare that to dogs that have killed well over 150 people (probably closer to 200) in the US since 1978. I think dogs are great and I have two pit bulls so don't misunderstand my point in bringing those stats up.

And here's a link to PETA's nonsense about snakes.

And here's a link to a page on USARK about the USFWS intent to make an end run around the normal process of adding species of the LACEY act. They (USFWS) has given the public 1 month notice (ending July 31, 2013) of their intent for comments.

morningstar2651 · Jul 27, 2013

XB3LI3V3RX said:
What is that supposed to mean?

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

XB3LI3V3RX · Jul 28, 2013

bsd31 said:
The problem is exclusive to a very tiny microcosm of Florida. It's not even statewide. It's basically the extreme southern portions of the Everglades and south. When the USFWS added the burms, rock pythons, and yellow anaconda to the Lacey Act everyone in the reptile community knew they wouldn't stop there.

The USFWS along with the Humane Society of the United States, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and some other groups have waged all out warfare against reptile owners.

The HSUS had this to say back in May of this year (2013) -

Source

Then further into the article they go on to say -

17 people have been killed since 1978. 35 years. Compare that to dogs that have killed well over 150 people (probably closer to 200) in the US since 1978. I think dogs are great and I have two pit bulls so don't misunderstand my point in bringing those stats up.

And here's a link to PETA's nonsense about snakes.

And here's a link to a page on USARK about the USFWS intent to make an end run around the normal process of adding species of the LACEY act. They (USFWS) has given the public 1 month notice (ending July 31, 2013) of their intent for comments.

I did not know about this happening now. Thanks for the information.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

XB3LI3V3RX · Jul 28, 2013

morningstar2651 said:
http://xkcd.com/353/

Well you still have made no sense at all.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

morningstar2651 · Jul 28, 2013

XB3LI3V3RX said:
Well you still have made no sense at all.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

This should explain it.

353: Python - explain xkcd

XB3LI3V3RX · Jul 28, 2013

morningstar2651 said:
This should explain it.

353: Python - explain xkcd

Ok.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

bsd31 · Jul 29, 2013

XB3LI3V3RX said:
I did not know about this happening now. Thanks for the information.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

Good place to look is on ball-pythons.net they have a forum dedicated to keeping up with legal issues facing herp keepers.

XB3LI3V3RX · Jul 29, 2013

bsd31 said:
Good place to look is on ball-pythons.net they have a forum dedicated to keeping up with legal issues facing herp keepers.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to check it out.

°«Creatio ex nihilo»°

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