Purpose-Driven PCA?

[Knight]

Knight, I agree with your assessment. It's old stuff for mature Christians, but there are many who have remained babes in Christ, and hopefully the PDL will be a wake up call.

Thanks.
I also think it makes a good "soft-sell" for outreach. I'm not talking about watering down the Gospel but this book was very widely read. It could easily be used to reach out to someone for a book study. After it's done it is possible to then invite them to a Bible study with the same group.
It worked quite well at our church. The Study we followed it up with was on the basic Gospel message. Our pastor called it "The key to unlocking the Purpose Driven Life."

It does not have a clear Gospel message, not as much as I would like. And it assumes that we are Christians to begin with. It is a an ecclessiatical book.

Agreed. There is no Gospel message at all. The way the book is written assumes that you're a Christian reading it. This is not a bad thing as there are many books that make this assumption. In the video series of the 40 Days of Purpose, Rick Warren tries to present a very basic gospel message but it falls way short. We stopped the tape before it got that far.

It's appears not to take the view of Reformed theology, and that might highy offend some .

The only aspect of the book that I thought went against RT was the statement in one of the later chapters about someone not being in heaven in eternity because they weren't evangelized to.

Other than that the book takes absolutely no position on RT. It dosen't even touch the subject.

 

[theseed]

Other than that the book takes absolutely no position on RT. It dosen't even touch the subject.

He says that God wants to save everybody, which I agree with, again, after more study. But not in the same way that Warren probably means it.

Go wants alot things that we see in The Bible, but he has a purpose that supercedes that. For example, he commanded Pharoah to let His people go, but at the same time hardened his heart.

We read in Romans 11, that God wanted the Israelites to repent, but he hardened thier hearts so that more Gentiles would be saved.

I have a good essay on the subject.

http://www.desiringgod.org/library/topics/doctrines_grace/2wills.html

 

[Knight]

Here's another side note about this book that I though was interesting:

If I'm not mistaken there was a particular verse not referenced in this book that would have made sense to be included. This was Romans 8:28 (NIV) "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him who are called according to his purpose"

Seems to me like that should have been included.

One other thought about this book and campaign:

It seemed to me like there was an enormous amount of hype associated with this book. Over and above what seemed reasonable. I felt like I couldn't voice my disagreements (Those that I posted in my review) with some aspects of this book. The overall atmosphere in our church did not seem conductive to such criticism. (The same was true for the Passion movie.)

This probably has more to do with our church than anything else. Not that it is bad but it, like all others, is imperfect.

Did anyone else experience this?

 

[Peter]

As a former PCA'er, I ask the following question:

"What is the chief end of man?"
"To love God and to enjoy Him forever."
Why would any PCA church need more than that?

Peace.

Peter

 

[M. Wayne Bradley]

To glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. Sorry, don't mean to quibble, just thought I'd make that minor correction for accuracy's sake. Good question though, Peter. I've heard others ask the same thing. It's true. Why do we need to go through a course using Rick Warren's silly little book when we could just (and should) devote a certain period to studying through the catechism, which most members are probably only vaguely familiar with, and which is a much more rich and edifying source of information about 'what on Earth we're here for' and how to live with purpose. I think a better name for Warren's book might be, "The Profit Driven Pastor" or something like that. Needless to say, I don't think much of it.

 

[calgal]

To glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. Sorry, don't mean to quibble, just thought I'd make that minor correction for accuracy's sake. Good question though, Peter. I've heard others ask the same thing. It's true. Why do we need to go through a course using Rick Warren's silly little book when we could just (and should) devote a certain period to studying through the catechism, which most members are probably only vaguely familiar with, and which is a much more rich and edifying source of information about 'what on Earth we're here for' and how to live with purpose. I think a better name for Warren's book might be, "The Profit Driven Pastor" or something like that. Needless to say, I don't think much of it.

I would love to see a study on the WCF or the HC!

 

[theseed]

As a former PCA'er, I ask the following question:

"What is the chief end of man?"
"To love God and to enjoy Him forever."
Why would any PCA church need more than that?

Peace.

Peter

Because The Bible tells us more than that. Warren begins with God's glory in his book, and explains how we glorify God through worship, fellowship, discipleship, ministry, and missions.

 

[calgal]

Because The Bible tells us more than that. Warren begins with God's glory in his book, and explains how we glorify God through worship, fellowship, discipleship, ministry, and missions.

May I recommend the Westminster Confession of Faith (smaller for starters), Heidelberg Confession and/or the London Confession (this is the Baptist confession) for some interesting reading? A bit more concise and better use of scripture (the Message bible? Eww!)

 

[SoldierofChrist]

Pragmatism, even so-called "Christian" pragmatism is not biblical. Just because something works doesn't make it ordained by God. I heard that Warren says that you cannot question what God is doing. Yet, how do we know it's God's doing and not man's doing unless we test everything as the Bible commands?

The Bible says that God will grow His church through the preaching of the Word, not wearing silly Hawaiian shirts and having the latest praise band jam on the guitar to try and form the concept that worship is 'cool' all while forming empty faiths and crumbling foundations. You cannot build a strong foundation that way. This contributes to the current wave of Christian divorce. Without a strong foundation, it will eventually crumble.

 

[theseed]

May I recommend the Westminster Confession of Faith (smaller for starters), Heidelberg Confession and/or the London Confession (this is the Baptist confession) for some interesting reading? A bit more concise and better use of scripture (the Message bible? Eww!)

Yes, i don't like all the different translations, espec. the parahprasedo one's. The Message is one man's interpretation of scripture--and not simply an accuragte translation as it should be.

 

[theseed]

Just because something works doesn't make it ordained by God

I thought that everthing that happens is ordained by God to happen

You cannot build a strong foundation that way. This contributes to the current wave of Christian divorce. Without a strong foundation, it will eventually crumble.

How do we know that Saddleback is growing that way? They show no signs of crumbling.

 

[SoldierofChrist]

I thought that everthing that happens is ordained by God to happen

I'm speaking in regards to something that God wants to happen, like He wanted His Son to die on the cross. That kind of ordination.

How do we know that Saddleback is growing that way? They show no signs of crumbling.

Well let's see, Islam is growing pretty rapidly and showing no sign of crumbling. Does that mean it's ordained by God? Pragmatism simply isn't biblical. It doesn't show true conversion.

 

[calgal]

Yes, i don't like all the different translations, espec. the parahprasedo one's. The Message is one man's interpretation of scripture--and not simply an accuragte translation as it should be.

I agree. I tried reading the Message and it got really old really fast. Switched to NKJV and like it a LOT.

 

[theseed]

I agree. I tried reading the Message and it got really old really fast. Switched to NKJV and like it a LOT.

I study from the NASB, and sometime refre to the YLT to see the literal phrases and order of the words.

I like to read from the KJV in public, because ti sounds the best, and altough is no longer a vernacular translations, it is still an accurate translations.

 

[theseed]

Well let's see, Islam is growing pretty rapidly and showing no sign of crumbling. Does that mean it's ordained by God? Pragmatism simply isn't biblical. It doesn't show true conversion.

Of course it doesn't. Only the Holy Spirit does that.

 

[SoldierofChrist]

Yes the Holy Spirit does. I'm glad we agree on something here. If the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to show true conversion and God is powerful enough to save whomever He wishes, then I don't see how simply living the Christian life in full obedience to Christ and surrendering to God's Word isn't sufficient to draw people to the Lord? Why must we have flashy bands, weak sermons, and powerpoint in order to do the simple task of preaching the Word in and out of season. Can God not draw His people to Himself without the use of modern techno-gadgets? I'm not saying these things are bad in and of themselves, however the fact of the matter is the Bible instructs us not to be like the world. The world craves entertainment and flashy things because it is so materialistic and self-driven. How do we teach godly principles of contentment in a media-saturated society? I simply think Warren's methods are not Scriptural and I'm not afraid to question them.

 

[theseed]

Can God not draw His people to Himself without the use of modern techno-gadgets?

Yes, can people stop God's drawing with tecnno gadgets?

The world craves entertainment and flashy things because it is so materialistic and self-driven.

Correct, this was why Pliable in a The Pilgram's Progress did not make it through difficult times.

Warren's methods are not Scriptural and I'm not afraid to question them.

God will test every man's work.

1 Corinthians 3
11 For no man can lay a (22) foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 (23) each man's work will become evident; for (24) the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will (25) receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet (26) so as through fire.

 

[Knight]

Let's not go too far with this.....

Warren is not a heretic and you'll have a very hard time making a charge like that stick.

Is he Reformed? I would say no. But that does not make the PDL heresy.