Purity...Please Help!

[Living4Him03]

I feel like whenever I try to get going in the right direction and really truly living for God, satan just comes and finds every way he can to attack me and bring me down.

Recently my boyfriend and I decided to limit our physical contact with each other to kisses, hugs, and occasional cuddling. However, during the week we are both busy and he works a lot, but we both have web cams. :o I bet you can imagine what happens with us using our cams. We've seen more of each other's bodies on the cams than we have when we are physically together. And the cam stuff makes it SO much harder to resist going too far with each other. In my opinion, we probably have already gone too far. We also end up talking about fantasies we have which is also not good.

As much as I want to not make mistakes with him, it's easier said than done. Also, it's harder because he doesn't think that certain things are going too far, while I think they are. And before we agreed we'd try to maintain/obtain purity with each other, we talked about things that we wanted to try. So, I have been somewhat fickle with him. At first I said "let's just make sure we don't end up naked and we don't have sex" ...then I said we should probably limit it further, to which he agreed. And now I've said I'd like to please God in all aspects of our relationship by refraining from anything other than kissing, holding hands, cuddling, and hugging. The reason I have so much trouble making up my mind is because I feel like if we even try to do the right thing we'll just end up making a mistake.

I know mistakes may happen, because we are both human, and are falling in love, but still...I don't want mistakes to happen. I'm just so frustrated. Sometimes I feel like we should just go ahead and do some of the things we want to do so long as we don't have sex because it's being idealistic to think we'll actually be able to refrain from it anyway. Also, it's not really fair to get my boyfriend turned on, only to realize "oh wait we shouldn't do this" and then to just leave him hanging. I want to please God and I love God with all my heart, but I'm not sure how to keep from making mistakes when I've made them SO many times in the past.

Any advice? Anyone been in this type of situation?

 

[Machachachi]

Physical attraction is indeed a powerful force, but I really am not going to tell you to be ashamed, since what you are experiencing is pretty normal if TOTALLY FRUSTRATING AND CONFUSING AND FRIGGIN CONTRARY..... Really it comes down to this, is God big enough? What do you think, do you think God is gonna leave you hanging and expect you to just resist and have all the strength and be totally self-sufficient? HOGWASH, DAMN IT, he doesn't do that! No God is very involved in this situation, and no matter what you do HE IS PLEASED WITH WHO HE HAS MADE YOU TO BE, don't worry about God not being pleased, cause he just simply is....

Now concerning the temptation, if you think you haven't crossed the line yet, you'd be wrong, something about "If you even think....." Matthew 5 for the full verse don't think just cause you haven't "DONE IT" means you are somehow safe, I mean seriously how many times have you "Done It" in your head, but that in and of itself DOESN"T MEAN A THING. Really IMO the whole issue is just overworked, you need to relax, this is not a life or death issue, God is not judging you, you are okay! God loves you, he is looking out for you, this isn't a spiritual issue its a rational one. What do you and your boyfriend want out of this relationship? After knowing that, are you willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen? I mean if you don't see anything permanent in the relationship then why are you bothering in the first place right? Anyways, it all comes back to communication, if you don't build up a rational outlet in your relationship it will be all emotions... STRAIGHT PASSIONATE AND POWERFUL emotions. Start talking about thing other than sex, half the problem is probably having it on your mind all the dang time, its probably what you talk about even if you are talking about "issues", if you are thinking about sin cause you like it, or thinking about sin cause you want so bad to stop, you are still THINKING ABOUT SIN....

Turn the focus of your relationship to the lasting, not the transitory, talk about the lasting, focus on pursuing the lasting parts, cause after all thats what makes a relationship last, Sex is just an added bonus

 

[Raanan]

It may help to think of it like this. Sex is NOT important at all. Everything is so wrapped around sex these days it's no wonder people get so hung up on it. The fact of the matter though, aside from the physical part of popping kids out, sex is all about intimacy. You don't have to have sex to be intimate with someone. Granted, it's a powerful way to be intimate with someone but God created us with the ability to be intimate anyway. We do NOT NEED SEX TO BE INTIMATE.

I'ld be willing to claim what you're after isn't sex but intimacy. Decide whether you want true intimacy or physical intimacy and the rest should fall into place.

 

[Machachachi]

Exactly......

 

[swordsman]

I agree with the above replies. Also, imagine yourself married right now.... ok, you can have sex now.....big deal! we live in such a sex-crazed world today, and it'll only get worse. I suggest that you guys do something different together, because there are a lot of things that married people can do, aside from sex. my sister, who is married for at least 10+ years already, knows this already. try lending a helping hand to a few people that you know are down, go for a drive somewhere, where you (alone, or with your boyfriend) can talk to God. Something that you haven't done before, that way, it's godly and can be spiritually beneficial.

I've found that one of the best ways to beat any sexual urges satan may throw on you, is to keep yourself occupied. read a book, help out someone, read the Bible!...DO SOMETHING (would it be fair to say that you guys are using your webcams because you's are bored?)

At the moment, I am reading "SET FREE" by Niel T Anderson...great book.

I hope what some of the stuff I said helped...God bless

 

[Amadeus]

Ok. I haven't really thought out some big lecture on how to deal with this situation, seeings how I haven't gotten to bed yet, am really tired, and don't have the time, but I will try to share whatever I can.

I know exactly what you're going through, and I'm not afraid to admit that I've been down this road before. Now, the first thing I feel I must say, is that I disagree about the sex not being important thing. First of all, sex simply means the act of "Knowing" another person. Sex is literally intimacy, so I feel that downing sex is a bunch of hog-wash if I may say so.

Love is a dangerous thing, and I know how loving someone can create the desire to "Know" that person in a very strong way. I am not saying there is anything wrong with love, oh no. What I mean is that love takes you to a whole new dimension, and a relationship can become a battle ground. I have made many mistakes, while doing so, I thought I was finding a loop-hole that would allow me to experiment sexually, yet retain my virginity. Now I am not saying that you or I or anyone else isn't a virgin for taking that same path, but I am saying that I now know that it is wrong to try and cheat God to fulfill these desires. It's easier said than done, but it must still be encouraged that everyone hold fast to their chastity and keep themselves for the one that God has prepared for you down the road.

Now here is my advice on how to deal with the problem. Become used to seperation. Not breaking up, but purposely staying apart for any given amount of time, so that you can operate in life without the clouds of lust blinding you and taking you of the path of chastity. Learn new things to do with your time, and encourage each other. Pray together, over the phone if you have to, and read your Bibles together. Watch what you say and do, because we guys can be easily lured into lust, even if it's not intentional, but I know it's the same for some females. Then, the next thing you must do, is break your mind. Try to teach yourself not to think and fantasize about your boyfriend, and tell him not to either. It's a hard and bumpy road, but you have a Saviour who is ready to forgive you when you mess up.

And that's all I have to say for now.
Peace,
Amadeus.

 

[Raanan]

Come one man, there's no need to colloquialise sex. We aren't pharisees after all.

Sex has nothing to do with knowing a person nore is it literal intimacy (the common phrase of "being intimate with someone" is another colloquial). By saying that you're essentially saying it is impossible to have an intimate friendship with someone without having sex with them. Am I supposed have a single friend in my lifetime and that's it? What about Jesus and his disciples? Were they not intimate friends or are you saying they regularly had sex with each other? How can any males be friends with males or females be friends with females by your definition of intimacy without being homosexual? Sex is NOT intimacy.

I agree with you here in that love is dangerous. It's a risk to have any involvement with love but it wouldn't be so incredible if it was a tidy little beach ball. I'm not sure what you mean with the rest of it though. You trying to say love makes relationships a pain in the ***? That's a really strange thing to say considering God IS love. You trying to say God makes relationships a pain in the ***? If that's the case, why would he have created us to be in relationship? Is God some gigantic jackass getting his jollies by making us hoola-hoop our way to heaven?

"Become used to seperation," ea? That doesn't strike you as going against the very essence of relationship? Look at the greatest relationship we can ever have for example here. Jesus is always with us. That means he is NEVER gone. I'm not seeing seperation there. Then again, it's not like we're having sex with him so I suppose it isn't an intimate relationship anyway.

Your next two suggestions I actually agree with. Those are awesome things to do with your significant other. Nothing livens my spirit more then spending my time chilling with God in intimate conversation and sharing that with someone else. Oh wait, I can't have sex with God so my conversations with him are never intimate.

I would say, don't watch what you say and do. Rather, talk about everything. I dread the thought of a therapist being told more during counseling sessions then a persons significant other whom they supposedly love. Guys get turned on easily, yeah. That's nothing new. They are responsible for themselves though, not anybody else. There are men who get turned on by a slight breeze. Should we stagnate all air movement?

Lust is not some impending doom we have to build entire social constructs to avoid. In fact, very little of what is commonly grouped as lust is lust. Rather, a large part of it is attraction; sexual and non. Neither is lustfull. Both were created in us by God. You want to tell me God ****s up? Contrary to popular opinion, you can be aroused without lust. If you couldn't well, men involuntarily lust about 20 times a night. Sexual attraction is normal. It's where you go from there which determines sin.

To reiterate, sex is NOT intimacy. Attraction is NOT lust. Seperation is NOT relationship. Love is NOT a problem causer.

 

[Amadeus]

Man...
I KNOW this for a fact! The Hebrew word for sex means to KNOW someone! And INTIMACY is the act of KNOWING someone! Geez...

 

[Servant991]

Living, many of us have no doubt struggled with what you are going through. But I agree with many of the earlier posts...sex is (contrary to what the media/peers/whoever else) is not the most important thing in life. In fact, its a very small part. As Raanan mentioned, no doubt what you desire is true intimacy, which everyone has come to associate with sex. That isn't the answer though, believe me.

As to having your webcam, it obviously is a dangerous temptation which you know will get you in trouble. So my question to you is this: why do you still have it? Did Jesus not teach about radical amputation of all that causes us to sin? Get rid of it, before it helps destroy you, its just that simple.

"Sometimes I feel like we should just go ahead and do some of the things we want to do so long as we don't have sex because it's being idealistic to think we'll actually be able to refrain from it anyway. Also, it's not really fair to get my boyfriend turned on, only to realize "oh wait we shouldn't do this" and then to just leave him hanging."

If you don't want to leave him hanging, don't start to begin with. I know I make it seem easy, but it certainly is not. You have to be strong here, and find a way rid yourselves of these temptations. If that means never being alone together, then consider that...

But as to the first sentence...that is a huge mistake! Here's a possible scenario for you to consider... Let's say that you and your boyfriend are just "messing around" and the clothes start coming off. Next, you are laying in bed naked with him and then you guys decided to just have sex once, to see what it is like...I mean after all you love each other right, so what could be wrong with that? A TON.

This is a prime example of what happened to me and my ex-girlfriend. I let myself be tempted, and I gave in. To this day I REGRET ever doing that. Soon after that, she and I became slaves to our sexual desires. Every time we saw each other, that is all we had on our minds, and almost all we did. We became slaves, plain and simple. It took me months to realize what we were doing to ourselves, and I found the strength to tell her that we could not continue in having sex. She was respectful, yet very dissapointed, and hurt. Our relationship continued for a while, but she ended up cheating on me with some other guy and our relationship struggled, and died. And quite honestly, it could all be traced back to that one fateful night, where I allowed myself to be tempted and I fell.

TAKE THIS BIT OF ADVICE: Do whatever you can to stay free of your temptations. IT is so much easier to stay strong when you remove your temptations!! I cannot express the heartache I experienced as a result of not doing this. My one mistake completely destroyed a wonderful relationship and opportunity. And now I am stuck wondering what could have been. DON'T MAKE MY MISTAKE.

 

[Raanan]

Intimacy: 1 a : intrinsic, essential b : belonging to or characterizing one's deepest nature
2 : marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity <intimate knowledge of the law>
3 a : marked by a warm friendship developing through long association b : suggesting informal warmth or privacy <intimate clubs>
4 : of a very personal or private nature

Sex: 1 : either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male
2 : the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of living things that are involved in reproduction by two interacting parents and that distinguish males and females
3 a : sexually motivated phenomena or behavior b : Sexual Intercourse
4 : Genitalia

According to Merriam Webster.

I fail to see what ancient hebrew has to do with anything. We aren't ancient hebrew.

I'ld write more but I've tried 3 times now to write a post without horrid flaming and I just haven't been able to do it. The very notion of intimacy requiring sex is a direct afront to God in that it contradicts the belief he created us for intimate relationship with him. If he didn't create us for intimate relationship then God simply created us for his amusement. We're nothing more than court jesters. My life's pursuit, my life up until now, in fact all of Christianity is for nothing. It's all worthless **** and islam has it right. It angers me greatly to have someone say such a thing.

 

[Living4Him03]

I think part of it is that we do get bored and we don't get to see each other as often as we want to, so when we do see each other all the desire we've got for one another comes out. Also, I know there are other women who are also like this, but I do get turned on by him easily. If I get turned on it's hard for me to just forget about it.

Also, is it possible for my boyfriend and I to stay together if he does not think certain things are wrong that I think are wrong before marriage? He says that he thinks doing "little to none" when it comes to messing around is the ideal. Yet, he just does not seem convicted about it being wrong. He doesn't seem concerned that it's wrong. Maybe I'm just seeing it that way though, maybe he does see it as wrong, but wants to respect whatever it is I want. Which is something else that bothers me...I wish that he would not just leave it up to me to decide. What should I say to him? We've discussed many times our intentions to not mess around and please God with our relationship, but it just doesn't seem to be working.

 

[Amadeus]

*Peeps his head out from behind a sandbag wall*
You obviously don't realize what I am saying, and you're letting your misunderstanding ruin the purpose of this thread, Raanan!
*Hits the dirt, then raises his head back up and peers around*
Sex and intimacy share the same meaning. When you are intimate with someone, you are "knowing" each other. When you are having sex with someone, you are "knowing" that person. Understand? And might I also add that conversation can also be called INTERCOURSE!!! GET IT!???
*Runs and hops inside a fox hole*

Now, back to the topic at hand...

Search for the answers in the Bible and through prayer, and ask God to convict those areas He feels you need to improve in, and teach your boyfriend to seek God's pleasure, not his. Don't let him abuse his role as a male, and fulfill your own role by supporting him and coersing him not to make the wrong decisions. It's a joint effort, and you must utilize your partnership in Christ, although I don't remember whether you said you were both Christians or not, oh well. I hope some of makes sense and helps you in some way.

Peace to you AND Raanan,
Amadeus.

 

[Machachachi]

FLAME WAR ENDS NOW. The words don't matter one lily livered bit so just be quite. The truth of the matter is that purity is not measured in actions, its measured by what Jesus has done.

You have to understand that Sex is not something that you can percieve as wrong or right, you have feelings! Feelings are not meant to simply be labeled, God did not give you feelings to say that they are wrong. Yes, you don't want to ruin the relationship, but I know very many people who had sex before they were married who continued on to have wonderfully successful relationships in marriage, and I know people who waited until they got married and got divorced soon after. The problem is not sex, the problem is a willingness to commit and understand the other person.

You have strong feelings now, but what about later, when the passion dies down, is there anything in the foundations that will keep the relationship together? Do you know his dreams, does he know yours? Do you actually know each other or are you just attracted? You already know the answers to these questions.... If you don't have any foundations now, what makes you think that marriage will somehow shore up a relationship, a piece of paper and ceremony are no replacements for the actual hard work and determination that it takes to make marriage happen.

So are you commited? Or do you just feel strongly, cause damn there is a huge difference, and I would suggest finding that out, cause the answer to that question is by far more important than "is what we are doing wrong"... Cause knowing whether you are actually commited to that person, whether you even really like them is totally different than I feel attracted to this guy and want to have sex, cause you are saying the latter, but trying to pass it off as the former....

 

[Raanan]

Amadeus, I realize exactly what you are saying but I don't think you do. It's semantics sure but unlike most other discussions I've had where semantics were the entirety of the issue, here you are not only saying something in a different way but you justify the importance of sex by slightly altering the connotation "knowing." What you don't seem to realise is what that connotation leads to.

However, you are right. The purose of this thread is to help living4him. As such, unless I feel I have something else to contribute to her, my mouth is going to be shut (well, my fingers won't be typing anyway).

 

[vibrant]

Intimacy: 1 a : intrinsic, essential b : belonging to or characterizing one's deepest nature
2 : marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity <intimate knowledge of the law>
3 a : marked by a warm friendship developing through long association b : suggesting informal warmth or privacy <intimate clubs>
4 : of a very personal or private nature

Sex: 1 : either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male
2 : the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of living things that are involved in reproduction by two interacting parents and that distinguish males and females
3 a : sexually motivated phenomena or behavior b : Sexual Intercourse
4 : Genitalia

According to Merriam Webster.

I fail to see what ancient hebrew has to do with anything. We aren't ancient hebrew.

I'ld write more but I've tried 3 times now to write a post without horrid flaming and I just haven't been able to do it. The very notion of intimacy requiring sex is a direct afront to God in that it contradicts the belief he created us for intimate relationship with him. If he didn't create us for intimate relationship then God simply created us for his amusement. We're nothing more than court jesters. My life's pursuit, my life up until now, in fact all of Christianity is for nothing. It's all worthless **** and islam has it right. It angers me greatly to have someone say such a thing.

you have a very drastic way of reasoning...

 

[Raanan]

Not really. There's a distinct line of reasoning there but I didn't take the time to write it because I was trying not to flame (which I still didn't do a good job of).

If sex = intimacy and intimacy = warm friendship then sex = warm friendship. If sex is friendship then I can't be friends with anyone without having sex with them. If sex is friendship, I can't be friends with God without having sex with him. If I can be neither intimate nore friends with God, why did he create us? It certainly isn't for relationship as Jesus taught. If it isn't for relationship what does that leave? Expiriment, amusement, boredom, etc. Nothing I want to be associated with. If what Jesus taught is wrong then we christians truly are the most pitiable creatures on the planet as our entire faith falls apart. If christianity falls apart then either the religions which teach we get to heaven by works are true or atheists are right and there is nothing more then this life we have now. Either way, not exactly something I'ld raise my hands and praise.

And yes, I broke my silence in this thread. I can't seem to not reply to things directed toward me. Well, unless it was say, the taco bell dog telling me he wants me. I think I'ld just turn and run.

At any rate, I do owe you an apology Amedeus. You were giving your opinion and I bit like a rabid dog when I should have reasoned like a sentiant man. My apologies.

 

[Living4Him03]

FLAME WAR ENDS NOW. The words don't matter one lily livered bit so just be quite. The truth of the matter is that purity is not measured in actions, its measured by what Jesus has done.

You have to understand that Sex is not something that you can percieve as wrong or right, you have feelings! Feelings are not meant to simply be labeled, God did not give you feelings to say that they are wrong. Yes, you don't want to ruin the relationship, but I know very many people who had sex before they were married who continued on to have wonderfully successful relationships in marriage, and I know people who waited until they got married and got divorced soon after. The problem is not sex, the problem is a willingness to commit and understand the other person.

You have strong feelings now, but what about later, when the passion dies down, is there anything in the foundations that will keep the relationship together? Do you know his dreams, does he know yours? Do you actually know each other or are you just attracted? You already know the answers to these questions.... If you don't have any foundations now, what makes you think that marriage will somehow shore up a relationship, a piece of paper and ceremony are no replacements for the actual hard work and determination that it takes to make marriage happen.

So are you commited? Or do you just feel strongly, cause damn there is a huge difference, and I would suggest finding that out, cause the answer to that question is by far more important than "is what we are doing wrong"... Cause knowing whether you are actually commited to that person, whether you even really like them is totally different than I feel attracted to this guy and want to have sex, cause you are saying the latter, but trying to pass it off as the former....

Thank you for replying to this post and not getting involved in the arguments going on. It's not just a physical attraction or just liking someone. He's my best friend and I care deeply for him. My attraction for him is above and beyond physical. You are right, it is about commitment. I guess I just feel like he isn't as concerned with purity and how important it is to please God. But like I said, I may not be right. He could be serious about it, but he may be confused by my inconsistency. So, in other words I need to be consistent and remember why purity is important to me (to please God and to not cause my boyfriend to fall along with me). I haven't explained to my boyfriend why it's important to me and it's hard to believe someone is commited to something when they keep encouraging the behaviors they want to stop. I need to stop sharing fantasies with him and we both need to get together on this and come up with a plan. I guess I just want him to see this as a big deal and it doesn't seem like he does. Thanks for the advice everyone. I will let you know how it works out.

 

[jenptcfan]

I feel like whenever I try to get going in the right direction and really truly living for God, satan just comes and finds every way he can to attack me and bring me down.

Recently my boyfriend and I decided to limit our physical contact with each other to kisses, hugs, and occasional cuddling. However, during the week we are both busy and he works a lot, but we both have web cams. :o I bet you can imagine what happens with us using our cams. We've seen more of each other's bodies on the cams than we have when we are physically together. And the cam stuff makes it SO much harder to resist going too far with each other. In my opinion, we probably have already gone too far. We also end up talking about fantasies we have which is also not good.

As much as I want to not make mistakes with him, it's easier said than done. Also, it's harder because he doesn't think that certain things are going too far, while I think they are. And before we agreed we'd try to maintain/obtain purity with each other, we talked about things that we wanted to try. So, I have been somewhat fickle with him. At first I said "let's just make sure we don't end up naked and we don't have sex" ...then I said we should probably limit it further, to which he agreed. And now I've said I'd like to please God in all aspects of our relationship by refraining from anything other than kissing, holding hands, cuddling, and hugging. The reason I have so much trouble making up my mind is because I feel like if we even try to do the right thing we'll just end up making a mistake.

I know mistakes may happen, because we are both human, and are falling in love, but still...I don't want mistakes to happen. I'm just so frustrated. Sometimes I feel like we should just go ahead and do some of the things we want to do so long as we don't have sex because it's being idealistic to think we'll actually be able to refrain from it anyway. Also, it's not really fair to get my boyfriend turned on, only to realize "oh wait we shouldn't do this" and then to just leave him hanging. I want to please God and I love God with all my heart, but I'm not sure how to keep from making mistakes when I've made them SO many times in the past.

Any advice? Anyone been in this type of situation?

Hey girl!

Just wanted to applaud you on knowing that something's gotta change even though the temptation will be hard to avoid.

I totally agree with you on the "not fair to get him turned on and then leave him hanging" comment. Let's face it, guys generally don't understand us anyway....this type of thing can really confuse them! I think it's unloving to act inconsistently due to our own personal temptations (I've been there, though not exactly the same situation), and it seems like you care for your boyfriend a lot. It would probably be most loving to talk to him about what boundaries you would like to set and why you think it's important to maintain that level of purity.

If you have to, throw your webcam in the garbage. Do whatever you have to do to be obedient to the Spirit's leading. It's important. It's also more important for you to live a pure life than to continue in this relationship (although I hope you can do both at the same time!). That's a hard thing to say, and a hard thing to hear because relationships ARE important...but pleasing God is infinately more important.

I have no doubt that God intends to use you powerfully to fulfill his purposes--if he didn't, Satan wouldn't be attacking you and tempting you! Hang in there and do whatever necessary to see that Satan doesn't win this battle.

 

[Raanan]

Hey, I wanted to publicly apologize to you, living4him. I publicly got in an arguement in this thread when this thread was about you not what I was arguing about. That wasn't right of me. My apologies.

 

[Living4Him03]

Thanks Jen for your post, very encouraging I understand what you're saying. It makes a lot of sense, satan does try to bring us down when we are trying to do what is pleasing to God and I can't let him win this battle.

Raanan, thank you for apologizing. I appreciate it. But you've really got to learn not to get too upset over the posts here. Most people at CF are not out to get you and aren't trying to twist your words around or make you look bad. I know some people here are going to disagree with other's viewpoints, and that is fine, but I have learned from my own experience that those who don't encourage and support you in your walk with Christ, or those you don't agree with, you just have to let it go and remember how Christ would treat someone he doesn't agree with. God bless you!