Purgatory?

[bbbbbbb]

I am looking for some response from Catholics regarding this information posted on the main page of Purgatory.com:

Jesus taught us that when you die, you will be judged for your sins as well as how you treated, loved and forgave people in your life as well as your relationship with the triune God through the sacraments. For if you are a believer or not, at the moment of death, you are judged and taken to either Paradise (or modernly translated as Heaven) or Gehenna (modernly translated as Hell) for eternity.

As Catholics we believe that there is a third existence which is eternal but its state is not forever which is called Purgatory. For it is believed that those who
enter purgatory are eventually delivered to heaven but first must purify their souls to enter the Kingdon of Heaven. This state of existance is called Purgatory.

For as Jesus taught us, our time on this Earth is very short compared to our existance in the afterlife. Because there is no 'time' in Purgatory, for time is a temporal concept. For those who are in purgatory they must wait knowing that they cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven until mercy is shown on their soul by God. For it has been said that fervent prayer as well as sacrifice at a mass or Liturgy for the specific intention of souls can help propel a soul into heaven.

Many view a funeral of a close ones life as an end. It is just the beginning. We continue to live with that person and their soul for eternity. For that person does not truly die and we as God's creation can help a soul strive for cleansing though prayer, sacrifice and rememberance. For it has been said by the saints who have seen purgatory that when we die, we are greeted first by the souls that we helped and prayed to and those souls help us on our journey to God even after we have died.

For we can truly never know when we die where we will go but what we do have control over is our own soul and the souls of those close to us. Therefore in the time that we have on earth to receive grace and grow our love of Our Lord, we must pray for our own soul, correct our mistakes and seek everlasting love with Our Savior Jesus Christ. And extend that love to all Souls that have left the earth.

This website was created based on the simple idea of 'Redemptive Suffering'. In order to increase our souls, we have to decrease ourselves from the earthly attachments of sin and other temporal distractions that keep us from prayer and sacrifice. At confession we receive such wonderful graces to decrease ourselves for the Glory of God. At confession, with a truly contrite heart, we get a clean slate on our soul. And only through hard work and suffering can we bring ourselves closer to God
in this God-less world.

It is so easy to forget souls that leave this earth over time. Especially as the generations pass. This website was built for the specific purpose of posting names of souls who have passed from this earth and to pray for their souls and have rememberance for them to help them to eventually get to Heaven. This website will also allow anyone access to names of people who they have never met and can pray for their souls as well to help even the 'poorest' soul in purgatory who has no one to pray for them at all. For practicing this suffering for others, lifts our soul closer to God and can help us to move toward heaven as well. For our time on this earth is short but our time in the afterlife is not. We must make atonement for our sins and the sins of others and make investments in our future and the future of others for the Glory of God.

 

[alphonsus12]

Hrmmm this subject is not something I am particularly knowlegable about this subject. However especially when it comes to what Catholics believe, it is a safer bet to seek out what the Church officially teaches rather than what some website states. The Catechism of the Catholic Church does go into this subject, and it can be found at the website of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (sorry I can't post links yet until I hit fifty posts). This is for sure what the Catholic Church teaches, whereas I do not know where Purgatory.com comes from.

Peace of Christ

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hrmmm this subject is not something I am particularly knowlegable about this subject. However especially when it comes to what Catholics believe, it is a safer bet to seek out what the Church officially teaches rather than what some website states. The Catechism of the Catholic Church does go into this subject, and it can be found at the website of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (sorry I can't post links yet until I hit fifty posts). This is for sure what the Catholic Church teaches, whereas I do not know where Purgatory.com comes from.

Peace of Christ

Thanks for the excellent suggestion. Here is what I was able to glean from the Catechism:

"1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire: As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

"1498 Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.




"1475 In the communion of saints, "a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth. between them there is, too, an abundant exchange of all good things." In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others, well beyond the harm that the sin of one could cause others. Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin.


"1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain."


I realize these paragraphs are part of a much larger context, but I am limited in size by what I can post here. I think there is an interesting comparison that can be made, if some would like to do so.

 

[MrPolo]

What is the specific question about Purgatory?

 

[bbbbbbb]

What is the specific question about Purgatory?

The question is not about Purgatory per se, but about Purgatory.com. My question is how accurate is the information on their home page in your opinion? Are they representative of Catholic belief or are they a segment within Catholicism?

Thanks.

 

[Kepha]

The question is not about Purgatory per se, but about Purgatory.com. My question is how accurate is the information on their home page in your opinion? Are they representative of Catholic belief or are they a segment within Catholicism?

Thanks.

Sounds about right with some possibilities thrown in there as well such as with our being greeted by the souls we helped, first in Heaven.

But it is true we believe others can assist those in Purgatory since together, both the saved in Heaven and Purgatory, and then us here on earth make up the entire Body of Christ. So those within the Body, are empowered by Christ's Graces where we then re-apply them to others through prayer and Sacrifice. It is no different than what we do when we pray for a loved one here on earth. However, nothing we do is of our own merit except using our God given free will to accept and obey whatever Graces God may send our way.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Sounds about right with some possibilities thrown in there as well such as with our being greeted by the souls we helped, first in Heaven.

But it is true we believe others can assist those in Purgatory since together, both the saved in Heaven and Purgatory, and then us here on earth make up the entire Body of Christ. So those within the Body, are empowered by Christ's Graces where we then re-apply them to others through prayer and Sacrifice. It is no different than what we do when we pray for a loved one here on earth. However, nothing we do is of our own merit except using our God given free will to accept and obey whatever Graces God may send our way.

Thanks for your response.

 

[onlyTruth]

For as Jesus taught us, our time on this Earth is very short compared to our existance in the afterlife. Because there is no 'time' in Purgatory, for time is a temporal concept. For those who are in purgatory they must wait knowing that they cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven until mercy is shown on their soul by God. For it has been said that fervent prayer as well as sacrifice at a mass or Liturgy for the specific intention of souls can help propel a soul into heaven.

I don't think the Church has a definite position on whether purgatory is outside of time or not. It is thought that it is possible it is outside time but I don't think we know for sure. Also, we don't really know for sure what is entailed in purgatory other than it is a purification process.

 

[MrPolo]

Regarding the "time" element of Purgatory:

"The transforming 'moment' of this encounter (Purgatory) cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of 'short' or 'long' duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The 'temporal measure' of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an 'existential time,' in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world."
--Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI), Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231​

 

[bbbbbbb]

Regarding the "time" element of Purgatory:

"The transforming 'moment' of this encounter (Purgatory) cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of 'short' or 'long' duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The 'temporal measure' of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an 'existential time,' in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world."
--Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI), Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231​

Thank you for the quote. It is quite helpful. In light of the fact that indulgences do affect one's experience in Purgatory, do you think that they mollify the intensity of burning or somehow reduce the experiential relationship of the individual in terms of time perception or possibly both?

 

[MrPolo]

Thank you for the quote. It is quite helpful. In light of the fact that indulgences do affect one's experience in Purgatory, do you think that they mollify the intensity of burning or somehow reduce the experiential relationship of the individual in terms of time perception or possibly both?

I'm not aware the exact nature of the "help" of an indulgence is specifically defined. The analogs of "time in purgatory" or the burning of the "wood and straw from the silver" throughout Church history all are used to express the same idea---perfect sanctification of the soul. The way Purgatory is defined is that it is a perfect purification of the soul so that the soul can fully unite with God Who is incompatible with any blemish. Any imperfections, sinful tendencies, or whatever you or I might have at death will be purged away before full union in heaven. So when one prays for a soul(s) in Purgatory, whatever mercy God will grant to that soul is known to Him.

This is how we understand God in analogical terms as well, calling Him "shepherd" or "lamb." We have to describe Him in terms a human being can analogize.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is {to be} revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=3&v=12&t=NASB#comm/14
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I believe this is the passage commonly used to support the doctrine of purgatory. As you can see, Paul makes it quite clear that what is being burned are works, not souls. Thus, it is incorrect to say that the Bible always speaks of souls being purified by fire like gold, silver or precious stones. It is the works that are compared with gold, silver, and precious stones.

 

[onlyTruth]

I Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is {to be} revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's [/URL]
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I believe this is the passage commonly used to support the doctrine of purgatory. As you can see, Paul makes it quite clear that what is being burned are works, not souls. Thus, it is incorrect to say that the Bible always speaks of souls being purified by fire like gold, silver or precious stones. It is the works that are compared with gold, silver, and precious stones.

Read the last verse again. It says HE (not his works) will suffer loss; but HE HIMSELF will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Yes there is one part that says the works will be burned but it also talks about how HE will be saved, which is through fire. It doesn't say that his works will be saved through fire. It says HE will be saved through fire if his works are burned.

In addition to that - what makes you think that everything has to be in the Bible.

 

[MrPolo]

In the passage, the wood and straw represent bad remnants of a person. The gold and silver represent the purity that is compatible with heaven. The bad parts will be purged away before he is saved so that only pure gold and silver remain. This analogy is a reference to smelting in the Old Testament (Ez 22:22). You see how what remains is the pure precious metal, apart from any impurities. This is exactly the essence of Purgatory.

 

[bbbbbbb]

In the passage, the wood and straw represent bad remnants of a person. The gold and silver represent the purity that is compatible with heaven. The bad parts will be purged away before he is saved so that only pure gold and silver remain. This analogy is a reference to smelting in the Old Testament (Ez 22:22). You see how what remains is the pure precious metal, apart from any impurities. This is exactly the essence of Purgatory.

Oddly enough, it seems that we are now have reversed roles. Although I am a proponent of faith as the source of salvation with works playing a lesser role and your denomination places far greater stress upon works than I do, I now am defending works as a key element in God's judgment of Christians.

The passages mentions works specifically in relation to wood and straw as well as gold and silver so the analogy is that what passes through the judgment (which is analogous to a fire, but is not necessarily a literal fire even as one's works are not literally made of wood and straw or gold or silver) are works pure and simple so that the one responsible for those works will be saved although the works may be found wanting and worthless.

However, that being said, I believe your statement holds true for the Catholic understanding of Purgatory.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Read the last verse again. It says HE (not his works) will suffer loss; but HE HIMSELF will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Yes there is one part that says the works will be burned but it also talks about how HE will be saved, which is through fire. It doesn't say that his works will be saved through fire. It says HE will be saved through fire if his works are burned.

In addition to that - what makes you think that everything has to be in the Bible.

Yes, He will suffer loss - the loss of those works which were found worthless in the sight of God. However, He will be saved apart from those works, even though they are burned up. The works are burned, not the believer.

I probably believe more things that are not mentioned in the Bible such as the atomic chart, than are mentioned. However, I trust that those extrabiblical things do not contradict what is in the Bible itself. As a result, I do not believe in a pantheon of gods as do some Hindus which include Jesus Christ as one or even the foremost one. In the same way, when the Bible does speak concerning God's judgment I believe it rather than some theology which contradicts it as, for example, the Mormon doctrine of baptism by proxy for the dead.

 

[onlyTruth]

Yes, He will suffer loss - the loss of those works which were found worthless in the sight of God. However, He will be saved apart from those works, even though they are burned up. The works are burned, not the believer.

"The Greek phrase for "suffer loss" (zemiothesetai) means "to be punished." This means the man undergoes an expiation of temporal punishment for his bad works (sins) but is still saved. The phrase “but only” or “yet so” (in Greek, houtos) means "in the same manner." This means that the man must pass through the fire in the same way that his bad works passed through the fire, in order to expiate himself of the things that led him to produce the bad works in the first place." - Scripture Catholic .com

Obviously, the believer is "burned" as well. But remember its a metaphor so the believer may not be literally burned, but does have to go through some type of purification process. And that purification process is what we call purgatory and is what this passage in scripture is referring to. Nothing impure can enter the kingdom of heaven.

I probably believe more things that are not mentioned in the Bible such as the atomic chart, than are mentioned. However, I trust that those extrabiblical things do not contradict what is in the Bible itself. As a result, I do not believe in a pantheon of gods as do some Hindus which include Jesus Christ as one or even the foremost one. In the same way, when the Bible does speak concerning God's judgment I believe it rather than some theology which contradicts it as, for example, the Mormon doctrine of baptism by proxy for the dead.

I also believe the Bible 100%. I just don't interpret it the same way that you do.

 

[bbbbbbb]

"The Greek phrase for "suffer loss" (zemiothesetai) means "to be punished." This means the man undergoes an expiation of temporal punishment for his bad works (sins) but is still saved. The phrase “but only” or “yet so” (in Greek, houtos) means "in the same manner." This means that the man must pass through the fire in the same way that his bad works passed through the fire, in order to expiate himself of the things that led him to produce the bad works in the first place." - Scripture Catholic .com

Obviously, the believer is "burned" as well. But remember its a metaphor so the believer may not be literally burned, but does have to go through some type of purification process. And that purification process is what we call purgatory and is what this passage in scripture is referring to. Nothing impure can enter the kingdom of heaven.



I also believe the Bible 100%. I just don't interpret it the same way that you do.

Here are some translations of the passage beginning with the one I previously posted:

12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica

http://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...etCommentaryText&cid=54&source=2&seq=i.53.3.3

12Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

English Standard Version (ESV)The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/audio/play.php?aid=1&book=53&chapter=3http://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...etCommentaryText&cid=54&source=2&seq=i.53.3.3

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

King James Version (KJV) Public Domain

http://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...etCommentaryText&cid=54&source=2&seq=i.53.3.3

12and if any one doth build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw --
13of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare [it], because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove;
14if of any one the work doth remain that he built on [it], a wage he shall receive;
15if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT) Public Domain

http://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...etCommentaryText&cid=54&source=2&seq=i.53.3.3

12Now if any one build upon [this] foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw,
13the work of each shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare [it], because it is revealed in fire; and the fire shall try the work of each what it is.
14If the work of any one which he has built upon [the foundation] shall abide, he shall receive a reward.
15If the work of any one shall be consumed, he shall suffer loss, but *he* shall be saved, but so as through [the] fire.

Darby Translation

12 If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 the work of each will come to light, for the Day 7 will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one's work. 14 If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. 15 But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, 8 but only as through fire. New American Bible (American Council of Catholic Bishops)


12 Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: 13 Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Douay-Rheims Bible (American Council of Catholic Bishops)

Please note that none of these (nor any other English translations) render the passage even remotely close to that suggested in your commentary. The last two are translations published by the Catholic Church, having received its primatur and they agree with the other translations, not your commentary. Also, Young's and Darby's which are extremely literal, do not differ at all from the others, either. Please show me any reliable English translation that renders the passage differently so as to agree with your interpretation.

In essence, what you have is a theological dilemma. Your interpreter must fall back to potentially possible remote renderings of two phrases in order to make the passage fit his interpretation, whereas the translators who I assume are knowledgeable in the Koine Greek of the New Testament are in complete agreement as to the most accurate and understandable rendering of the passage in English. These translators include those of your own denomination.

You may believe the Bible 100% but you do not interpret it differently than I do. Your church interprets it differently for you and you are forbidden to interpret in any other manner than what your church decides. As for myself, it is not a matter of interpretation at all, but a plain understanding of the plain English of the passage. If you were to show this passage to an unbiased agnostic or atheist I am certain that they would not understand it any differently, although their theological basis is vastly different than mine.

 

[onlyTruth]

Please note that none of these (nor any other English translations) render the passage even remotely close to that suggested in your commentary. The last two are translations published by the Catholic Church, having received its primatur and they agree with the other translations, not your commentary. Also, Young's and Darby's which are extremely literal, do not differ at all from the others, either. Please show me any reliable English translation that renders the passage differently so as to agree with your interpretation.

In essence, what you have is a theological dilemma. Your interpreter must fall back to potentially possible remote renderings of two phrases in order to make the passage fit his interpretation, whereas the translators who I assume are knowledgeable in the Koine Greek of the New Testament are in complete agreement as to the most accurate and understandable rendering of the passage in English. These translators include those of your own denomination.

Is it possible that the suffer in "suffer loss" is associated with pain/punishment? Yes. Most people think of pain when they think of suffer. So even without looking into the real meaning from the original Greek it makes a lot of sense to interpret it this way. What makes this more convincing is studying the original Greek word used in the Bible.
The Greek word for "suffer loss" is zemioo.

Here is the translation for zemioo...

2210 zemioo {dzay-mee-o'-o} from 2209; TDNT - 2:888,299; v 1) to affect with damage, do damage to 2) to sustain damage, to receive injury, suffer loss

See where some people might think that the "suffer loss" used in this passage is associated with pain/suffering/punishment.

Is it possible for "yet so", "but only", "but so" in this context to mean "in the same manner" or "similar to" or "in this manner"? Yes. This is very probable way of interpreting this in its context. Again, what is more convincing is studying the original Greek for this used in the Bible. The Greek word for this is "houtos".

Here is the translation for houtos...

3779. houto hoo'-to, or (before a vowel houtos hoo'-toce adverb from 3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows):--after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like(-wise), no more, on this fashion(-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what

I have a hard time not agreeing with Catholic interpretation of this scripture when I find compelling evidence such as this.

In addition, the early church fathers also believed in purgatory.

Augustine writes...

"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment" (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

You may believe the Bible 100% but you do not interpret it differently than I do. Your church interprets it differently for you and you are forbidden to interpret in any other manner than what your church decides.

No, I look at the many different interpretations and come to my own conclusion. I am not a Greek or Hebrew scholar so I am in no position to translate. I look at all the evidence the both sides provide me and i come to my own conclusion. The Catholic Church is just way to convincing for me.

As for myself, it is not a matter of interpretation at all, but a plain understanding of the plain English of the passage.

Which is another way for saying "interpretation".

If you were to show this passage to an unbiased agnostic or atheist I am certain that they would not understand it any differently, although their theological basis is vastly different than mine.

On the contrary im sure if they read it for themselves they would agree with me and the Catholic Church.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I will attempt to respond to it in like manner.

Is it possible that the suffer in "suffer loss" is associated with pain/punishment? Yes. Most people think of pain when they think of suffer. So even without looking into the real meaning from the original Greek it makes a lot of sense to interpret it this way. What makes this more convincing is studying the original Greek word used in the Bible.
The Greek word for "suffer loss" is zemioo.

Here is the translation for zemioo...

2210 zemioo {dzay-mee-o'-o} from 2209; TDNT - 2:888,299; v 1) to affect with damage, do damage to 2) to sustain damage, to receive injury, suffer loss

See where some people might think that the "suffer loss" used in this passage is associated with pain/suffering/punishment

.

I can agree that there is a form of mental suffering and anguish in the loss of things. Thus, one can suffer in that manner when he sees all his precious works that he so valued in life being destroyed. However, it is not that he himself is being destroyed or burned up, but his worthless works. In fact, Paul makes it clear that the destruction is limited to only those works and that the believer himself will be saved through the fire. Imagine, if you will, the case of Daniel and his three companions when they were thrown into the fiery furnace (Daniel 3). They were entirely unaffected by the fire and walked out unscathed and without even the smell of smoke upon them. They did not suffer, although all else in the furnace was entirely consumed in the fire.

Is it possible for "yet so", "but only", "but so" in this context to mean "in the same manner" or "similar to" or "in this manner"? Yes. This is very probable way of interpreting this in its context. Again, what is more convincing is studying the original Greek for this used in the Bible. The Greek word for this is "houtos".

Here is the translation for houtos...

3779. houto hoo'-to, or (before a vowel houtos hoo'-toce adverb from 3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows):--after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like(-wise), no more, on this fashion(-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what

I am impressed (not) that you know far mare than the esteemed translators and magisterium of the Catholic church which translated and approved the rendering which gives the clear meaning of a contrast rather than a similarity here. I suggest you take up the issue with them rather than myself as Catholic translations disagree with your personal interpretation. If one translated each word of the Bible as a word-for-word translation divorced from any context, then one would have a complete mishmash of English words which would be generally incomprehensible to anyone. The construction of a sentence establishes the context for a correct translation of its component words.

I have a hard time not agreeing with Catholic interpretation of this scripture when I find compelling evidence such as this.

In addition, the early church fathers also believed in purgatory.

Augustine writes...

"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment" (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

It would best avoid quoting the ECF's as it can be a very slippery slope. You can usually find some ECF to support a controversial doctrine as well as those who don't.

The bottom line with your statement is that you have chosen to believe your church's teaching concerning this doctrine despite the fact that Augistine and all the other ECF's did not address this particular passage nor did they use it to support their belief in Purgatory. Their argumentation was purely theological.

No, I look at the many different interpretations and come to my own conclusion. I am not a Greek or Hebrew scholar so I am in no position to translate. I look at all the evidence the both sides provide me and i come to my own conclusion. The Catholic Church is just way to convincing for me.

It is a pity that you have bothered yourself in such a way when all your church requires of you is to accept its doctrine with complete docility and without question. What would ever happen if in your examination you came up with an interpretation at variance with your church's interpretation?

Which is another way for saying "interpretation".

Not necessarily. For example, if I write, "It is now 11:30 a.m." the plain meaning is that the clock indicates that it is thirty minutes after 11:00 in the morning. No interpretation is required to establish that meaning. An interpretation might be that it is half an hour before lunch. The interpretation requires extra information, i.e. that lunch is served and eaten at noon.

On the contrary im sure if they read it for themselves they would agree with me and the Catholic Church.

Would you care to put this to the test? I am willing to run this by at least ten non-Christians if you are willing to do the same. We can compare results after we receive our responses. When would you like to do it?