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It's some means of bringing us to greater perfection.
By definition there is no such thing as "greater perfection". Perfection is perfection it can't be improved upon.
You are right of course, poor choice of words.
I should have said it finalises the process of bringing us to perfection.
In view of all these posts extolling the achievement of perfection, the questions have to be asked:
What IS that perfection? What it it like? How will, for example, Mother Teresa be different from before death?
I think it is really only possible to speak about this fairly generally. She will have union with God, which will mean having her will, and also her intellect, completely aligned with God's truth. Those natural things which inhibited her union with God will be healed in some way, and those things which she allowed to inhibit that union will be let go.
It's possible that in Mother Teresa's case, there may not be a whole lot of difference - theoretically it is possible to achieve divinization in this life.
Do we go to heaven when we die? If so, what happens at resurrection? Do we leave heaven and get back to our transformed earthly bodies? I get confused about this, hence a waiting place becomes logical to me. If there is to be a judgement, how come do we get rewarded prior the judgement (sounds biased to me)? I am just confused. Do we stop growing spiritually once we die?
As I said before - this confusion leads me to just settle for one option i.e a place of waiting (what we call it - that I do not know).
Do we go to heaven when we die? If so, what happens at resurrection? Do we leave heaven and get back to our transformed earthly bodies? I get confused about this, hence a waiting place becomes logical to me.
You are right of course, poor choice of words.
I should have said it finalises the process of bringing us to perfection.
So are you claiming that after death we need to be punished in some way to atone for our sins? How exactly does that square with the Gospel? Perhaps I have an incomplete understanding of the Gospel but it is my understanding that we can't in any way atone for our sins. How would suffering after death add to the atoning sacrifice of Christ?
No, he is not talking about atonement, but about theosis.
When we die, at least most of us, we are not yet perfectly conformed to God's will. It is not that we have got a debt for our past sins. But we are very often still holding on to the things that separate us from him. Bad habits, small pleasures we ought to give up but don't, our own fads and vanities that are not spiritually healthy, bad feelings towards other people, prejudices, that sort of thing.
No, he is not talking about atonement, but about theosis.
When we die, at least most of us, we are not yet perfectly conformed to God's will. It is not that we have got a debt for our past sins. But we are very often still holding on to the things that separate us from him. Bad habits, small pleasures we ought to give up but don't, our own fads and vanities that are not spiritually healthy, bad feelings towards other people, prejudices, that sort of thing.
Sometimes too I think that sometimes we ourselves do hang on to our old sins that God has forgiven and those are a sort of baggage that interferes with our union with him.
But union with God means losing these things, and if we don't do it while we are alive it must happen after death. This is not a punishment but in fact a great grace. That does not, however, mean that it is something that can always be accomplished without discomfort, just as allowing God to work in us to let go of these things in life is often very painful.
Theosis, Holiness, Perfection etc. all imply that we aren't yet worthy to be present with God. Yet, what separates us from God is sin, what reunites us with God is Atonement. Where specifically do we learn that His atonement was not sufficient to make us worthy of the presence of God?
Atonement enables the process of Theosis to begin. Justification and Sanctification are both required.
None of this is possible without Christ's Atonement but the fruits of the Atonement have to be applied to each of us.
But even if this (theosis) were true, what's the logic or scriptural basis for thinking that this process requires punishment although we have been absolved of our sins?
You're the only one who is talking about punishment.
Me and 600 years of Church history, you mean.
That IS Purgatory, MK!
I am somewhere between amused and amazed that a lot of people have convinced themselves that it's possible to totally re-define Purgatory and yet call their own invention by the same name, thereby allowing themselves to say they believe in Purgatory when they actually don't.
To borrow an old line from Johnny Carson, you might as well say that you believe in Purgatory because you think that after death we will all go to a mobile home park in Tarzana, California. Well, that would be a mobile home park in Tarzana, California, not Purgatory, even if you call it "Purgatory."
And BTW, why do you think they call it PURGE-atory? Because it's place where we get orientation before entering Heaven? Because we undergo an interview with God there? Because we need to be forgiven for the sins that were already forgiven thanks to Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross? No.
I don't think it is redefining purgatory, it is the same essential idea.
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