Pure metaphysical claims

[David Gould]

Pure metaphysical claims are those claims that do not have a grounding in the world we can detect.

For example, 'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death,' is a pure metaphysical claim.

The question I am interested in is this: by what methodology do we evaluate the truth or otherwise of pure metaphysical claims?

For example, imagine these two claims sitting side by side:

'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death.'

'Hell exists and all non-Moslems will end up there after death.'

Imagine that one of these claims is true.

How do I tell which one it is?

 

[Prince Lucianus]

Although I know you want a Christian to respond to this, I'll have a crack at this.

It's written in the bible and Mohammed didn't die for your sins.

It's obvious.

Lucy

 

[Alencon]

Define what you mean by "TRUE."

Are you looking for objective or absolute "TRUE?" If so, the answer is there is no such thing.

Or are you looking for subjective or relative "TRUE?" In which case "TRUE" is in the eye of the beholder and for some Christians, but by no means all, the first is "TRUE" while for some Muslims, but by no means all, the second is "TRUE."

And for the rest of us, neither is "TRUE."

 

[David Gould]

I hate postmodernism ...

 

[Glass*Soul]

The question I am interested in is this: by what methodology do we evaluate the truth or otherwise of pure metaphysical claims?

It's that feeling you feel when you feel that feeling you feel.

 

[SNPete]

Pure metaphysical claims are those claims that do not have a grounding in the world we can detect.

For example, 'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death,' is a pure metaphysical claim.

The question I am interested in is this: by what methodology do we evaluate the truth or otherwise of pure metaphysical claims?

For example, imagine these two claims sitting side by side:

'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death.'

'Hell exists and all non-Moslems will end up there after death.'

Imagine that one of these claims is true.

How do I tell which one it is?

My question is: do you care or is this one of those atheistic threads where you seek to justify your belief system?

Do you care if there is a God? Or is your point this God stuff is bunk and "I want to demonstate" it by showing how illogical religion is. Well I wish you luck. Have fun. Truth is, that which we believe does not change reality.

If God does exist, all of your arguements will not change that fact.

A point to ponder.

 

[qh93536]

Pure metaphysical claims are those claims that do not have a grounding in the world we can detect.

For example, 'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death,' is a pure metaphysical claim.

The question I am interested in is this: by what methodology do we evaluate the truth or otherwise of pure metaphysical claims?

For example, imagine these two claims sitting side by side:

'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death.'

'Hell exists and all non-Moslems will end up there after death.'

Imagine that one of these claims is true.

How do I tell which one it is?

Here is some truth for you: Not all non-christians will end up in Hell. That is a rediculous statement made by those who do not know God. If Horitio Fujitso, in Japan has grown up as a Buhdist and has never been told about Jesus in a responsible and convincing manner, he will be saved.

 

[JoeSaebi]

Pure metaphysical claims are those claims that do not have a grounding in the world we can detect.

For example, 'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death,' is a pure metaphysical claim.

The question I am interested in is this: by what methodology do we evaluate the truth or otherwise of pure metaphysical claims?

For example, imagine these two claims sitting side by side:

'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death.'

'Hell exists and all non-Moslems will end up there after death.'

Imagine that one of these claims is true.

How do I tell which one it is?

Try prayer, and try listening to God (prayer goes two ways). Someday you might try it David, especially if it involves your family; children especially.

 

[Danhalen]

If God does exist, all of your arguements will not change that fact.

A point to ponder.

If God does not, all of your beliefs will not change that.

A point for you to ponder.

So, how do you know all Christians are not going to end up in Islam's hell?

 

[Willtor]

Pure metaphysical claims are those claims that do not have a grounding in the world we can detect.

For example, 'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death,' is a pure metaphysical claim.

The question I am interested in is this: by what methodology do we evaluate the truth or otherwise of pure metaphysical claims?

For example, imagine these two claims sitting side by side:

'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death.'

'Hell exists and all non-Moslems will end up there after death.'

Imagine that one of these claims is true.

How do I tell which one it is?

Propositions. These are meaningless because I don't even know what Hell is, from the context. I know what a Christian is (I think), and I have some idea of what a Muslim is (I think). What is Hell? Am I trying to get there? Am I trying to avoid it? Does it matter? Am I still dead when I get there?

 

[Janus]

I hate postmodernism ...

I'll second that. Post-modernists have no business being on an apologetics forum.



Anyway, so far the answers amount to the same old mystical babble. You've been asked a simple question, guys. If you have an answer that isn't based on circular reasoning, we'd like to hear it.

 

[quatona]

My question is: do you care or is this one of those atheistic threads where you seek to justify your belief system?

Is that, you don´t have an answer to the question asked?

Do you care if there is a God? Or is your point this God stuff is bunk and "I want to demonstate" it by showing how illogical religion is.

The OP asks a valid and objective question. Insinuating intentions does not count as an answer.

Truth is, that which we believe does not change reality.

Be that as it may - I don´t see how that is an argument for your belief.

If God does exist, all of your arguements will not change that fact.

Interestingly that works the other way round as well.
I guess that´s why people ask questions like the one David Gould asked.

A point to ponder.

To tell from your response, you seem strangely disinterested in doing so.

 

[Cleany]

The question I am interested in is this: by what methodology do we evaluate the truth or otherwise of pure metaphysical claims?

pure speculation.

it is the area of philosophy and a defence against materialism - but its not really that important.

I hate postmodernism ...

its just awareness thats all.

 

[Troof]

Nice try David Gould, but as you can see Christians will not actually consider the question you ask them. This is because being a Christian means not thinking about such things, but accepting that what the Bible or the Pope or your preist says without question.

For what its worth both your propositions are false!
There is no Hell for Christians, Muslims or anyone else!

 

[Patzak]

No difference between any such statements, except that "hell" has a longer tradition going for it than "a giant invisible badger in the sky". I find them both equally absurd.

Well, to be fair, not ALL metaphysical claims are created equal. Some of them are at least internally consistent. I'd say there IS a difference between saying

'Hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death.'

and

'God is all-loving and all-merciful, hell exists and all non-Christians will end up there after death.'

The first statement is merely pure speculation while the second one also requires you to twist logic in painful and unnatural ways.

 

[Emmy]

Dear David Gould, you had some thought-provoking replies, may I say straight away, only those Christians who do not want to be with God for eternity, will end up as they wish, WITHOUT God. About allthe others, God will judge, He knows our hearts, and every thought. Jesus told us, while on Earth, " if anyone does not want to follow me, he,or she, will end up in a place in outer darkness, WITHOUT God`s LOVE or LIGHT. That is no metaphysical claim David, that is God`s Truth. Even if you do not believe there is a God, you will end up somewhere, after you leave your body, your inner man, your soul, will live on. You might not believe this either, but are you prepared to take the risk??? I say this humbly and kindly, David, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[Troof]

Dear David Gould, you had some thought-provoking replies, may I say straight away, only those Christians who do not want to be with God for eternity, will end up as they wish, WITHOUT God. About allthe others, God will judge, He knows our hearts, and every thought. Jesus told us, while on Earth, " if anyone does not want to follow me, he,or she, will end up in a place in outer darkness, WITHOUT God`s LOVE or LIGHT. That is no metaphysical claim David, that is God`s Truth. Even if you do not believe there is a God, you will end up somewhere, after you leave your body, your inner man, your soul, will live on. You might not believe this either, but are you prepared to take the risk??? I say this humbly and kindly, David, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

AH, the old "are you prepared to take the risk" argument.

 

[Cleany]

Dear David Gould, you had some thought-provoking replies, may I say straight away, only those Christians who do not want to be with God for eternity, will end up as they wish, WITHOUT God. About allthe others, God will judge, He knows our hearts, and every thought. Jesus told us, while on Earth, " if anyone does not want to follow me, he,or she, will end up in a place in outer darkness, WITHOUT God`s LOVE or LIGHT. That is no metaphysical claim David, that is God`s Truth. Even if you do not believe there is a God, you will end up somewhere, after you leave your body, your inner man, your soul, will live on. You might not believe this either, but are you prepared to take the risk??? I say this humbly and kindly, David, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

im sorry but this is just a mix of what appears to be random theological and philosophical ideas.

what do you know about the afterlife? about the soul? what does "god will jusge our hears mean"? it just means "i dont know".

all that you are really saying is "there is an afterlife at which point we will be with or without god" but you dont know anything abuot the afterlife - or do you?

 

[TeddyKGB]

Try prayer, and try listening to God (prayer goes two ways).

This, too, is a metaphysical claim. To wit: How do I tell to whom any putative voice in my head might belong?

 

[TeddyKGB]

its just awareness thats all.

Awareness of what?