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Public Schooling

ohgin

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How bad is the public school system in America?? I have read articles in christian websites that says that christian parents will use all means to ensure that their children are not public schooled. Do they really indoctrinate you in public schools???Are public schools use for political agendas?Has the educational standards and moral standards dropped by a large margin?discuss
 

heymikey80

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ohgin said:
How bad is the public school system in America?? I have read articles in christian websites that says that christian parents will use all means to ensure that their children are not public schooled. Do they really indoctrinate you in public schools???Are public schools use for political agendas?Has the educational standards and moral standards dropped by a large margin?discuss
Begin by looking at my age.

When I was in public junior high school I was required to take an opt-in course. My interests were primarily spiritual and pop-sci and sci-fi, so I picked up a course in "the pseudo-sciences", an introduction to non-scientific knowledge.

Maybe I was nieve. But there was no way to opt out of it after enrollment.

The course covered ESP, palm-reading, Satanism, witchcraft, Age of Aquarius, ... all from an invitational bent, not from a skeptical bent. It was quite well taught. My parents had their own troubles and weren't really following what was going on.

It was my first introduction to alternate spirituality, religion, and philosophy. This wasn't the last time. In tenth grade a class on "The Humanities" presented existentialism. My prior class conditioned me to expect such a thing was "out there," but I didn't know how to deal with it as a critical thinker. In fact I was a critical thinker looking for answers to this kind of philosophy, which really declared life has and leads to nothing.

I didn't get plausible answers to what I had learned there until my senior year in a Christian high school, Westminster / Augusta, GA, in its Apologetics class. I consider their work on me nothing short of a rescue.

The kids I work with now are either in private or home schools, or undergoing the same or worse eye-opening experiences in public school. I don't mind the eye-opening, frankly. I do mind the presentation as half-truth, as if there are no answers from within Christian apologetics.

If you keep kids in public school I guess my advice would be to find a cerebral, strong, good church school class on Apologetics, the Ancient Faith, the Christian Doctors and Councils, something to help ground them. Christianity is not "whatever modern theologians think", it's more than an ideology or some cause celebre. Get that through to your kids. By all means find a church that will engage your kids and grow them. It's not easy to decide whether the answers are "good" either: it all depends what your kid's being exposed to. But find them out, match them up, and if there's a mismatch, maybe you can match 'em better.
 
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cubanito

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My frustrations w the educational system of the USA as a parent of 4 kids (from 22 to 9yo) are...

I can't even go there. All my kids are in RC schools. I find NOTHING to commend the public schools in my area. Having gone through some of them myself, they were bad then, and now worse than worthless. They are positively destructive to every value I hold dear INCLUDING learning even of the basics. The only schools I can afford within an hour's drive are all RC parochial schools. There the kids learn very little, but at least they are not devoted to the destruction of all Christian values and the nuclear family. What about learning? More than half of the basics they learn, they learn at home from my wife or me. The insanity of the elementary US educational system is well documented. The US starts off with average scores, but by the middle grades the US place LAST out of 25 "developed" countries in mathe, and penultimate in science. I can certainly understand why. My sister left the public school system after her first year as a teacher. Has she stories of the burecrautic meddling, thievery, incompetence and just plain wackoness!

Back at my birthplace of Cuba, for me it was even worse. My parents taught me to cheat at school. I had to pretend not to know too many answers, and to get every sixth question wrong on tests. Yes, I had to cheat to LOWER my grades from first to 4th grade; else the government would forcibly take me away to a special boarding school (as happened to one of my cousins).

So most of what I learned, my father taught me at home, in secret, for fear of the government.

The lack of afordable CONSERVATIVE primary education by Christian Churches is, IMO, the single greatest failure of the Protestants in the US. All mercy ministries and missions worldwide should be, IMO, secondary to helping the nuclear family with this critical need. The RC understands this well, their help starts at home.

JR
 
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Elderone

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ohgin said:
How bad is the public school system in America?? I have read articles in christian websites that says that christian parents will use all means to ensure that their children are not public schooled. Do they really indoctrinate you in public schools???Are public schools use for political agendas?Has the educational standards and moral standards dropped by a large margin?discuss
In short, the public school system in the U.S., more correctly called the government school system, is an abomination and definitely Satans workshop, and this includes most colleges.
 
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Paleoconservatarian

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Elderone said:
In short, the public school system in the U.S., more correctly called the government school system, is an abomination and definitely Satans workshop, and this includes most colleges.

And this is also true of private colleges as well as public. In my experience, critical theory is the gospel according to humanities and "social science" departments in college. And it was my public school education that prepared me for this stuff.
 
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edie19

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It depends on where you live, but from my experience and that of family and friends there is nothing to recommend about the public school systems.

First of all - schools are a monopoly, there's no competition so there's no reason for them to try and improve. Don't even get me started on tenure - where else is someone guaranteed the ability to remain in their job regardless of how well or how poorly they're doing. The National Education Association is the most liberal union in the country - and one of the most powerful. No one is truly willing to take them on.

My children attended public schools for several years. Come high school my son switched to a Catholic school - for several reasons, quality of education being one of them. Not quite so clear cut for my daughter. She struggled throughout elementary school and the teachers seemed perfectly willing to let her struggle. I had her reading comprehension tested, had her evaluated for ADD, constantly asked about repeating a grade - minimal input from the school. Finally, we switched her to a non-denominational Christian school. She ended up on the honor roll and is on the dean's list for the 3rd time at college. We had the option of putting our kids in private schools - we sacrificed some stuff to do so, but it we were able to afford it. For the folks who can't afford otherwise they're stuck with a failing system

School choice should be front and center - other than politicians and the teacher's unions - I don't know of anyone who doesn't think some sort of choice should be available. There's nothing to support the belief that more money in the public schools will make them better. Rather, give the money to the schools that are producing - let the money follow the results. The schools that are failing will go out of business (as they should). Also - keep government out of the school systems - it isn't the federal government's responsibility to begin with. Do away with the department of education and give control where it belongs - to the individual schools and the families that attend those schools.
 
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JJB

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Here is our school experience, so far, with our daughter:

We homeschooled her from Kindergarten. This last year, 5th Grade, was a tough year. She did not want to work with me, I could not force her to do her assignments. She would do the ones she enjoyed, which I thought were the most important so I was pleased about that. But it was harming our relationship.

God placed me in a bible study of Genesis. Through the story of Joseph, I realized that God does place His ppl in the middle of heathen life and culture in order to do good. He is sovereign and will keep those who belong to Him.

Next year, she will be going into public middle school. Yes, I'm telling her as much as I can about what it will be like there. Yes, I am grieving having to do this. Yes, I am grieving that her sweet personality may change for the worse for a period of time. But I know that God will keep her.
 
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edie19

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JJB said:
Next year, she will be going into public middle school. Yes, I'm telling her as much as I can about what it will be like there. Yes, I am grieving having to do this. Yes, I am grieving that her sweet personality may change for the worse for a period of time. But I know that God will keep her.

Offering my prayers and support for your daughter. My own was still very sweet and innocent at that age and I too was very concerned about what changes the secondary levels of public schools would bring about. That was another concern we had when transferring her to a Christian school. As a voice of encouragement - my son did very well in public middle schools, was on the honor roll - made lots of firends. Got a little wild for a while, but settled back down.

One thing I didn't say in my earlier tirade - and I apologize for not having said it sooner. To a large degree, any child is only going to get out of an education (be it public, private or homeschooled) what they and their parents are willing to put into it. My expectation for my children to do well was high - when I didn't feel that the school was concerned about my expectation I looked elsewhere. But kids can fail in private schools if there isn't support and encouragement at home.

edie
 
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No Swansong

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HMMM! Where to begin.

Perhaps with my oldest son who was homeschooled for Kindergarten only to be told by the school district that they didn't recognize "uneducated learning" neither my wife nor I had yet earned degree's. "We had better leave your son's education up to professionals now shouldn't we." an actual quote. Funny thing was my son was reading and none of the other students did until 2nd grade. (not kidding)

2nd grade his teacher when asked about a late homework assignment responded to me "He's gots to get it did." To make sure I didn't misunderstand this woman who reportedly held a Masters's degree she responded with the exact same sentence when asked to repeat herself.

Let's move on to middle school
His 7th grade class was told by the teacher that at least 3 students in the class were gay based upon percentages. When presented with evidence from such organizations as the American Psychological Association and other non-sectarian organizations that the 10% number originatining with the Master's and Johnson's report could not be substantiated and was probably much lower, her response was "well we'll just have to agree to disagree" and he was told not to share his information with the class.
The same teacher assigned my child to come home and ask us who were were voting for in the next presidential election, ask us why, and write a paper about why we may not be voting for the right candidate. I went to the principal on this one and he immediately apologized and called the teacher down to the office and told her she could not assign such an assignment.
The same teacher calmed her class after the Bush Gore election with the comment "Don't worry the right man will win, unless of course it is Bush. I went back to the principal.

Later in the year the teacher commented that she normally appreciated parents involvement but some of them (parents) hinder the educational process. I responded by telling her that my son's education was primarily my responsibility and she was simply a tool that I was using to meet that responsibility.

My son finished school online. He graduates this year and will be going off to college this summer.

I have a younger son. Pray for him.
 
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arunma

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ohgin said:
How bad is the public school system in America?? I have read articles in christian websites that says that christian parents will use all means to ensure that their children are not public schooled. Do they really indoctrinate you in public schools???Are public schools use for political agendas?Has the educational standards and moral standards dropped by a large margin?discuss

I'm answering from the perspective of someone who graduated from public school four years ago, and who is now almost done with college (I go to a public university).

How bad is the public school system? Well, that depends on your definition of "bad." You obviously don't get any sort of characteristically Christian education in public school. But nor was my education particularly un-Christian. I wasn't a Christian back in high school, so I really couldn't have cared less at the time. But I recall learning nothing either positive or negative about the Gospel in school.

I didn't feel particularly indoctrinated by my education. We weren't taught that such things as abortion or homosexuality were either acceptable or unacceptable, though our teachers entertained these controversial debates. And I can hardly remember ever learning about such things as evolution. In essence, I learned reading, writing, science, mathematics, and history. My education was secular, but not characteristically anti-Christian. As for college, the environment certainly is a bit anti-Christian, but this is due more to the student body rather than the professors or administration (but then, I'm a physics and math major, so I don't take classes where the issue of religion ever arises).

To be honest, I don't take offense to my public school education. The way I see it, I'm being prepared to live as a Christian in the real world. If I had gone to a private Christian college, I probably would have had prayer times built into my schedule, as well as required chapel attendance, religious education, and shelter from false doctrines such as evolution, homosexuality, etc. But what good would that have done me? In a few more years when I get a job in the real world, the boss won't have "prayer time." I'll have to learn how to pray without ceasing, and I'm thankful that I've already been forced to do this. I will be working in science, and most labs will not entertain religious doctrines such as Biblical creation. Thanks to public school, I've learned how to maintain Biblical convictions while working with people who don't share those convictions.

And to be honest, I think that such things as required chapel attendance in elementary and middle school would probably have made it more difficult for me to accept the Gospel of Christ, because it would have made me view worship as a chore rather than a pleasure. I am thankful that God has put me in an environment where it is a bit difficult to be a Christian, and I wouldn't have it any other way. The level of "persecution" that American Christians face is infinitesimal in comparison to the persecution of the early church, or even that which modern Christians experience in places like China. I think the least I can do is put up with an educational system that doesn't bend over backwards to give me time for Bible study. When I live in the real world, I'll have to make time for church activities, because my employer most likely won't care about my spiritual life. I am thankful for the preparation that God is giving me, and if I could go back to high school, I would not have gone to a private school.

Now that said, I understand that everyone's situation is different. Many parents have their own reasons for putting their kids in private schools or in home school. What I mean to say here is that it is distinctly possible for God to use public school to develop a person's faith. Public school isn't for everyone, and I certainly do not mean to judge those who don't send their kids to public school.
 
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ohgin said:
How bad is the public school system in America?? I have read articles in christian websites that says that christian parents will use all means to ensure that their children are not public schooled. Do they really indoctrinate you in public schools???Are public schools use for political agendas?Has the educational standards and moral standards dropped by a large margin?discuss
Ran across this article just today.

http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm

CC&E
 
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edie19

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rmwilliamsll

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Rick Otto

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I regained custody of my 1st son after he had been to 1st grade in a Wisconsin Public(Gov.) School.
They said he had attention deficit & needed Ritalin!
Made me so mad I had to fight off violent fantasies.
We noticed he tended to self-stimulate, you know, fidget. He WAS BORED! His real need was challenge & nobody was interested enough to DO that to him.
We started him thinking for himself & doing for himself, and he lost his whining along with his boredom. He got into some trouble with bullying & thievery amongst his friends, but we were takin' him to a charismatic church that would school him on scripture & give him some friends that had good direction.
He ended up payin his own way thru college. He was 4yrs into a degree in education, wanting to teach & coach, when he realized he was making more money driving a truck for Best Buy, than he ever would as a teacher. He quit college and drove "till he had back problems, then transferred to routing. He did so well, they sent him to SanDiego to teach them his system.
He's 30 now, married to a great gal. Both well employed, drivin' late model cars, & livin' in a nice condo in a nice neighborhood. No kids yet:crossrc:

My second son, we sent to the local Public School in a much smaller town, hoping it would be different. He could already read and had even worse problems with boredom than son#1. He could recite reams of dialogue from movies we watched, and had an amazingly active imagination and was very passionate. He was born with blonde curls & blue eyes (just what his mother prayed for), but his hair has grown Dk Brown & kinky as James Brown's, while his eyes have turned green.
Anyway, he was doin' fine in 1st grade until one day, while waiting in some line at school, a little girl would not stop pestering him. He said,"Leave me alone, you witch!", but they thought he'd said the "B" word, so he got in trouble for that.
I came home from work that day to find my wife & him terribly upset about it, and talking about homeschooling.

I told them that we shouldn't "go away mad" & that he should take his punishment without complaining, even though he didn't deserve it. Meanwhile (I told my wife), she should get all the info about what homeschooling required & we would look at it calmly & realisticaly.

That was early winter. After Valentine's Day, he came home telling us about "Sally" making valentins for her "two mommies". We had a teacher's conference coming up, so I told my concerned wife I would ask the teacher about it then (in a couple of weeks).

At the conference, our son recieved praise up & down. We waited until she asked us if we had any questions. I said,"It's not a big problem, but our son told us about Sally having 2 mommies. Do you know what that's all about?" Apparently it had been discussed openly with the entire class. I told her I was mostly curious how SHE dealt with it, and if it had caused her any awkward moments
She explained that one of her students had a lesbian mother who lived with her partner. She said she was thinking about having the 2 women come to class & explain their relationship. I'm not kidding. I'm not lying, even though my neighbor disbelieved me that the teacher would say that.
We didn't freak, we don't react in panic, I just nodded my head, looked at my wife, & said "Uh, huh."
On the way to the car, I said to my wife,"NOW you can start homeschooling!"

She did it all until about 5th grade. I took over math & english, we were using Abeka curriculum. Soon, I took over the whole deal, & now (thank God) we have Alpha Omega, so I don't feel like I have 2 full time jobs.
He's finishing up his sophmore year.

In 9th grade, he gave me this really great speech about wanting to go to High School for "The High School Experince" yadayada,..I said,"That's great, but you wanna meet the chicks & hang w/yer homies too, right?"
He admitted that. So I let him 'have at' it.

The second day, he went to the principle's office where he was politely ignored until he put all his books on the counter & headed for the door. Suddenly it was "Can I help you?"
He told the secretary he'd had enough & was goin' home. She ushered him right into the principle's office.
The principle called me & said my son had told him that he could learn twice as much in half the time at home.
This is the town in which the battle for legal homeschooling was fought & won for the entire State.
Principle said he didn't doubt what my son said was true, but that it was his job to inform me that if my son left, he could not come back that year.
"No problem," I said,"I suspected something like this might happen."
My son told me that the teachers were quirky neurotics or rabid nazis & the kids turned into stupid zombies, being micromanaged by their "handlers".
Not a pretty sight. Brought back memories of my own experience.
We still have to fight de debil, but at least we don't have to deal with half of his lackeys.:cool:
 
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I had written a rather lengthy post the other day, when I hit "send" it apparently caused CF to crash.:D

I'll try to give you the RDCV (Reader's Digest Condensed Version). I grew up in a suburb of a major metropolitan area and received a poor education. My husband grew up in a small mid-western town and received a much better education. When my oldest was nearly school-aged, we knew a great deal about the public school system he would attend. Bottom line for us was they did not teach phonics. This was totally unacceptable to us so we homeschooled.

Fast forward a few yrs and we have put our oldest in a private, Classical Christian school for high school. We are fortunate to have one of very high caliber in our town. It is worth every single penny we pay for tuition and everything we have sacrificed to see our child attend there. I cannot say enough good things about that school.

We continue to homeschool our younger child and expect to enroll her in the private school for high school as well.

I know many Christians who have gone through (myself included) or their children have gone through the public school system and have come through just fine. I don't pass judgement on others for their decisions, esp. if they are well thought out and done prayerfully. However, and this probably says more about my husband and I than anything else, we just don't have the motivation or desire to fight or try to work within the system. It has been easier to just do it ourselves.

For us the main reason we began homeschooling was academic. Homeschooling became a lifestyle for our family and I will never, ever regret one single second of it.

CC&E
 
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