Public Assistance - how long is long enough?

[Mom2Alex]

I live in a 'nanny' state (NY) where people can receive public assistance for an unlimited period of time - an unlimited amount of money over a lifetime as an adult. The people are encouraged to seek work and if they fail to look for work, their check is sanctioned 25%. I worked for the Head Start program some years ago and we had children in program who received public assistance, their mother's mother received public assistance, etc. The family clearly did not learn to strive because they were raised wholly dependent upon others.

As a child, we never received a welfare check, but we did have to receive food stamps and heat assistance for a time until we got on our feet.

Your charitable discourse is appreciated.



I think it is an obligation for a nation to see that people have a soft place to land when they fall until they can stand on their own. What if the people do not want to stand on their own? Ever? How long is long enough to receive public assistance?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Anyone can have a stumble and need some help.
It happened to us [when i was a kid] and we used food stamps during my dad's unemployment periods which werent often since he had like 2-3 jobs to support us.

Anyway - on the other hand i knew of women who were sent to college for free to help them get off welfare and when the one i know of got fed up with her job - she just quit and went back to welfare.

But it was amazing to me because her schooling was free, her childcare was free, her WIC helped her and her paycheck was good [accountant]

She quit- she flat out quit -and was allowed back on welfare for many years after including after she went back to college [for free] again and got another degree - to which she didnt use.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

 

[faerieevaH]

It's a difficult issue. In Belgium unemployement is in theory unlimited, but you have to prove that you are actively looking for work, by keeping letters that you send out, etc. We have an agency that is really great in helping people find a job, and it is actually better in helping you when you are less educated than it is when you are having a difficult time starting up after college.
If after a certain (rather long) time you have not find a job on your own, you are forced to accept one of the agency's chosing. Of course you can switch to one that is better at any time. In theory it works fine. In reality there are a few people who manage to play the system, but they're truely a minority. A really good public school system does a lot to slowly extract the next generation from that gap. Again, not perfect, but it works better than one would expect.

I remember reading this book that people by now are probably sick of hearing about: "No idle hands, a social history of knitting in America." What is great about this book is that, through the story of knitting, it tells a lot of the social history of America.
One of the things that was very important to the charitable organisations was not to encourage pauperism.

 

[DD2008]

I live in a 'nanny' state (NY) where people can receive public assistance for an unlimited period of time - an unlimited amount of money over a lifetime as an adult. The people are encouraged to seek work and if they fail to look for work, their check is sanctioned 25%. I worked for the Head Start program some years ago and we had children in program who received public assistance, their mother's mother received public assistance, etc. The family clearly did not learn to strive because they were raised wholly dependent upon others.

As a child, we never received a welfare check, but we did have to receive food stamps and heat assistance for a time until we got on our feet.

Your charitable discourse is appreciated.



I think it is an obligation for a nation to see that people have a soft place to land when they fall until they can stand on their own. What if the people do not want to stand on their own? Ever? How long is long enough to receive public assistance?

Forever.

1. I believe that we should use our recourses to make our attempt at giving all citizens of the United States a chance at life.

2. I believe that all people rely on society for their survival whether they will admit it or not.

3. The system should do what ever it can to assist the downtrodden and the poor. However in the poor accepting the assistance afforded them by the state they must also accept the responsibility to do their part to get out of their hole and support with their efforts the system that helped them get up for the benefit of their downhearted fellow citizens.

4. We should do our best to care for one another. Even if a person takes advantage of us. The sin is not on us for providing him with help when he is down. Rather if we do not provide it and we can we can earn a level of guilt. There is a party in this country that believes in self alone. I do not belong to it. I believe that social justice requires us to care for others and do our part to assuage pain. We can try to do that through financial support of the poor using our system of finances and government.

There are those who may take advantage of the system. Are there those who encourage them and treat them as equals or are there only those who reproach them and drive them into rebellion?

Matthew 18:21-35

[21] Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?"
[22] Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.
[23] "Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.
[24] When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents;
[25] and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made.
[26] So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, `Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.'
[27] And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt.
[28] But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and seizing him by the throat he said, `Pay what you owe.'
[29] So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, `Have patience with me, and I will pay you.'
[30] He refused and went and put him in prison till he should pay the debt.
[31] When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place.
[32] Then his lord summoned him and said to him, `You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me;
[33] and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?'
[34] And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt.
[35] So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, we should help people, as long as they need help.

Welfare isn't all that its cracked up to be. The majority of people on welfare, would just as soon be working jobs that could support their families.

In these tough economic times, thank God there is a safety net for people.

I never had to live on welfare, and I'm thankful to God for it.

Jim

 

[ProScribe]

I receive a monthly disability check with the exact knowledge that it can be taken away by the government.

 

[DD2008]

I receive a monthly disability check with the exact knowledge that it can be taken away by the government.

I hope you never have it taken away.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Conservatives sometimes fail to grasp that real people are dependent on these benefits, real people who will die if they don't get them. I have trouble even discussing this stuff because the folks who try to imply people are lazy and/or deserve to die, which is really what they are saying, anger me so much. Oh, but all the death is worth it for slightly lower taxes for the more fortunate, apparently, in the eyes of some conservatives. Conservatives are judging people for a perceived lack of work ethic (Which usually is not what's going on, but shouldn't matter even if it is), finding them wanting, and trying to sentence them to death. It's horrific.

That's about as civil as I can be on this subject. That's why I am trying to stay out of it.

 

[ProScribe]

I live in a 'nanny' state (NY) where people can receive public assistance for an unlimited period of time - an unlimited amount of money over a lifetime as an adult. The people are encouraged to seek work and if they fail to look for work, their check is sanctioned 25%. I worked for the Head Start program some years ago and we had children in program who received public assistance, their mother's mother received public assistance, etc. The family clearly did not learn to strive because they were raised wholly dependent upon others.

As a child, we never received a welfare check, but we did have to receive food stamps and heat assistance for a time until we got on our feet.

Your charitable discourse is appreciated.



I think it is an obligation for a nation to see that people have a soft place to land when they fall until they can stand on their own. What if the people do not want to stand on their own? Ever? How long is long enough to receive public assistance?

Your basic needs are food,water,clothing,and shelter. When your basic needs are met then it is ok. What you see when you tally up the numbers is someone pays a ridiculous amount of $ for a lexus and a tiny dividend of that pays for your basic needs. Corporate America pays a tiny fraction of $.

 

[faerieevaH]

Conservatives sometimes fail to grasp that real people are dependent on these benefits, real people who will die if they don't get them. I have trouble even discussing this stuff because the folks who try to imply people are lazy and/or deserve to die, which is really what they are saying, anger me so much. Oh, but all the death is worth it for slightly lower taxes for the more fortunate, apparently, in the eyes of some conservatives. Conservatives are judging people for a perceived lack of work ethic (Which usually is not what's going on, but shouldn't matter even if it is), finding them wanting, and trying to sentence them to death. It's horrific.

That's about as civil as I can be on this subject. That's why I am trying to stay out of it.

Fish, you know that I am very much in favour of a welfare state. I come from one and I like it. I know that there are people who are dependent on this, and I am in favour of helping them out. But I will not deny that there are also people who ARE lazy and who ARE playing the system. (I am actually related to one of them) I do not advocate abolishing the system because I would rather support a few people that do not deserve it, than not support those who do.

I am, however, a strong advocate of trying to tweek the system (the entirety of the system, schools, job programs, etc) to encourage people who often have grown up in generational poverty, so that they can get out and become happier.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Who plays the system more, the few dead beats on wel-fare, or the corporations looking for bailouts in Washington? Compare the numbers and they won't even be close.

Jim

 

[faerieevaH]

This isn't a matter of numbers though. The fact that corporations put greed first and are wrong in doing so, does not mean that there are no things that can be improved in the welfare system.
The fact that one thing is 'more wrong' does not make something else 'less wrong'.

 

[Mom2Alex]

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Who is judging?

*That seems to be one of your personal favorites from the Bible but only part of the story on judgment, by the way. Start another thread if you want to discuss judgment further - we did so in a thread not so long ago.

44 of the 50 states have limits on how long people can receive public assistance. Perhaps you prefer to think they are not progressive enough?

 

[Mom2Alex]

It's a difficult issue. In Belgium unemployement is in theory unlimited, but you have to prove that you are actively looking for work, by keeping letters that you send out, etc. We have an agency that is really great in helping people find a job, and it is actually better in helping you when you are less educated than it is when you are having a difficult time starting up after college.
If after a certain (rather long) time you have not find a job on your own, you are forced to accept one of the agency's chosing. Of course you can switch to one that is better at any time. In theory it works fine. In reality there are a few people who manage to play the system, but they're truely a minority. A really good public school system does a lot to slowly extract the next generation from that gap. Again, not perfect, but it works better than one would expect.

I remember reading this book that people by now are probably sick of hearing about: "No idle hands, a social history of knitting in America." What is great about this book is that, through the story of knitting, it tells a lot of the social history of America.
One of the things that was very important to the charitable organisations was not to encourage pauperism.

Many of our wonderful popes have spoken about this as well. Very good point. Self-sufficiency is very important to the social, physical, psychological and spiritual well-being.

 

[Mom2Alex]

Conservatives sometimes fail to grasp that real people are dependent on these benefits, real people who will die if they don't get them. I have trouble even discussing this stuff because the folks who try to imply people are lazy and/or deserve to die, which is really what they are saying, anger me so much. Oh, but all the death is worth it for slightly lower taxes for the more fortunate, apparently, in the eyes of some conservatives. Conservatives are judging people for a perceived lack of work ethic (Which usually is not what's going on, but shouldn't matter even if it is), finding them wanting, and trying to sentence them to death. It's horrific.

That's about as civil as I can be on this subject. That's why I am trying to stay out of it.

I am looking around in this thread to find someone who has discussed getting rid of public assistance. I can find no one. 44 of the 50 states in the US have limits on welfare, my state does not. I asked you and others who reply HOW LONG IS TOO LONG?

People will die? What are you talking about? There are programs other than public assistance such as SSI which help people with physical and mental problems who are unable to work - lifetime supply of financial support plus medicaid. Who in America is dying in the 44 states because there are limits and programs which help to educate people and take care of their own?

 

[DD2008]

I am looking around in this thread to find someone who has discussed getting rid of public assistance. I can find no one. 44 of the 50 states in the US have limits on welfare, my state does not. I asked you and others who reply HOW LONG IS TOO LONG?

People will die? What are you talking about? There are programs other than public assistance such as SSI which help people with physical and mental problems who are unable to work - lifetime supply of financial support plus medicaid. Who in America is dying in the 44 states because there are limits and programs which help to educate people and take care of their own?

Congratulations on living in a state with a good system.

If we can get more Democrats in office maybe the 44 backward states can finally get something done that is beneficial to the people.

 

[Mom2Alex]

Congratulations on living in a state with a good system.

If we can get more Democrats in office maybe the 44 backward states can finally get something done that is beneficial to the people.

And there is no reason for anyone to have no health insurance in my state. It is available for anyone willing to fill out the form.

I just do not see how paying someone to go to training and giving them full healthcare, rent subsidy and a check every week for life is for the overall good of the person. Help me to see your viewpoint.

 

[ProScribe]

Can Mom2Alex create a job?

 

[HopingForJesus]

I am on disability also. But, I am hoping and praying that my walk with Jesus will finally heal me enough someday where I can work again. Either way, may God use me to his Glory. There are those who should have the help, and those who misuse it. Just like in any area in life. There are always the extremes, and the in-betweens. When I was a young kid I remember seeing a mother buy alcohol with her cash, while her baby was in the store with her with just a diaper on. At least that is what I remember. And she used her food stamps of course for food...
It was sad...yet I do my best to not judge as I am imperfect and working towards perfection in Christ.