Psychic Abilities

[Tobias]

So are we to start calling prophecy, 'channeling Jesus'?

I think separate terms to distinguish between something led of the Holy Spirit is appropriate.

Granted IMO many that are operating in spiritual gifts are not doing so via the Holy Spirit yet are passed off as being so. IMO this is why it is stated in scripture for known prophets to test the word coming from another prophet. It takes their discernment to confirm the validity for those without that discernment.

Well, I thought the psychic terms were neutral ground. A clairaudient person is one who hears in the spirit, period. It doesn't mean that they can't hear God, or that they only hear demons, or that they only speak to the dead. There is no distinction in the terminology that indicates what type of spirit they hear, just that they hear them. And ya know, God is a spirit too.

Somehow there seems to be an underlying Christian definition that associates the term with evil. I still can't understand what that is or how to identify it, but post after post in this thread have given me the impression that this extra definition is pretty well ingrained into many believers.


My bad. Language is not my thing. I came here to talk about the issues, not make a case for what words we should use to call them.

 

[Tobias]

I agree. I also sometime feel deficiencies for not being able to see into the spiritual realm like a close pastor friend. Granted the ability to see demons on people you have to deal with may be a difficult gift to deal with. Yet, I can sense things that my pastor friend can't. For example, I can smell corruption from demonic doctrine without the spirit behind it being present so I get senses even off written material. My pastor friend would only see when a spirit is directly present without seeing demonic influences not present. So he can't use his gift to determine demonic strongholds built within an individual when that spirit is not present whereas I can.

So we both have discernment of spirits but in different forms that have different strengths and weaknesses. It is when we work in conjunction with the gifts of other individuals you get a more complete picture.

Different members of the body have different functions. It is when we all work together that we become a working body. Unfortunately the church today has the hand doing it's own thing while ignoring input from the eyes, ears, mouth, nose, ...

I think there is a reason that we don't perceive things in the spirit realm all that clearly. I think to do so is in itself a gift (or calling), and we should not be working to overcome the blinders that have been put upon us.

This is why so many Christians feel it's wrong to know much about the spiritual realm. Because for many there is a real temptation to push past the God-given barriers and try to understand more. God intends for us to work together as you described to be a complete body; and the need to know more about what happens on the spiritual plane simply doesn't exist when we fully trust in God.

 

[Yahu]

Well, I thought the psychic terms were neutral ground. A clairaudient person is one who hears in the spirit, period. It doesn't mean that they can't hear God, or that they only hear demons, or that they only speak to the dead. There is no distinction in the terminology that indicates what type of spirit they hear, just that they hear them. And ya know, God is a spirit too.

Somehow there seems to be an underlying Christian definition that associates the term with evil. I still can't understand what that is or how to identify it, but post after post in this thread have given me the impression that this extra definition is pretty well ingrained into many believers.


My bad. Language is not my thing. I came here to talk about the issues, not make a case for what words we should use to call them.

Well I think the problem is the secular terms generally apply to occult practices. The secular terms are not taken from scripture so you get the 'scripture only' mentality in opposition.

 

[Yahu]

I think there is a reason that we don't perceive things in the spirit realm all that clearly. I think to do so is in itself a gift (or calling), and we should not be working to overcome the blinders that have been put upon us.

This is why so many Christians feel it's wrong to know much about the spiritual realm. Because for many there is a real temptation to push past the God-given barriers and try to understand more. God intends for us to work together as you described to be a complete body; and the need to know more about what happens on the spiritual plane simply doesn't exist when we fully trust in God.

Actually I think that Yah doesn't give all the required gifts to a single individual to prevent pride and self-righteousness. We MUST work in conjunction of others. I think that is by design to force us to rely on the gifts of others.

I know when I fell into error in pride over my accomplishments that is when I get taken out at the knees so to speak. We need that thorn in our side or missing abilities to help prevent falling into pride in our self instead of remembering it is all for His glory, not our glory.

I tend to use stories out of my own life but what may not come across sometimes is the awe I feel that He did such great works through me. That blows my mind sometimes. If He could use a donkey, I guess He could use even me.

It also seems that every time there is a major event there is something to cast me back down right afterwards. For example, yes I defeated the coven and a high priestess of Ashtoreth but the last thing they did was take my wife from me right before they ended up in prison. You don't want to know what they put her through. It was because of her that the anti-stalking laws were passed.

I tend to leave out that part because many don't want to see the cost of achievements like that and I want to give a praise report instead of looking for sympathy or dwelling on self-pity. As bad as it sounds, I would almost prefer to have not had the experiences if it meant still having my wife. But that is just selfishness on my part.

 

[superenabled]

I'm not sure how this will fit into where the discussion's gone but I do believe, actually know, that a Christian can have psychic abilities that really were given them from God. I believe I'm one of them, and it's a gift, no more nor less than that. If you look at the original definition of the word psychic to begin with, you'll recognize that all Christians could, or rather should be called that since it really refers to "a person apparently sensitive to things beyond the natural range of perception".

First be clear, by psychic abilities that come from God I'm obviously not referring to seeing or speaking to the dead, or reading people's minds, or anything evidently demonic. What I'd describe what I have as is basically the same abilities any spirit-filled Christian has but multiplied by, well, much. I've always been aware I could "sense" things and people a lot more closely and accurately than everyone around me, but having been brought up in an atheist home I've had to find God for myself, and what this gift was I only found when I found Him. My gift has helped me protect myself in many ways, mainly spiritually, but my inability to understand and handle it properly also got me to hurt some people's feelings, and with theirs my own. I think I never fully realized how real and potent what I had was until the day I visited a ministry focused on deliverance, whose pastor discerned that I had a gift he likened to his. This resonated strongly in me because in my search for God, I did dab into the occult and had a clear sense that I could use what I had for things I didn't know at the time were wholly ungodly.

From what I know today, and I've learned a lot especially in the past two years, there is first a gift that a person can be born with, a God-given ability to operate as a seer, and this gift when a person is (truly) a Christian is essentially a very highly developed ability to discern spirits, moods, sensitivities, feelings and personalities, which with God can be developed and I'm discovering is meant to function as an essential part of their calling and ministry. Again I'd call it quite literally the gift of discernment at its most refined and effective form. When developed in a demonized person however this ability automatically invites demons in, who begin to work through them, which explains what certain witches are so powerful - I'm not sure what most on this forum would have to say about those things so I'll leave it at that so as to not start a conflict.

But I initially made a search on google about this subject because I would very much like to get in contact with someone who like myself is learning to operate in their gifting and understands how important it is to the ministry God gave them, which is where I am.

 

[Tobias]

Hi Superenabled,


It sounds like we might be on the same page here. In this thread, I was trying to make a distinction between how we as humans perceive the spiritual realm, from the gifts of the Holy Spirit which are the ways in which God uses us. For instance, to operate in the gift of discernment one person might see spirits, while another might feel, smell, or simply know (without any explanation) whether the spirit is of God or not. Calling this variety in human capabilities "psychic abilities" was an enormous mistake on my part that completely defeated the intended purpose of this discussion!


I used to be on the deliverance team at my church, and can't imagine what any of this is good for if there isn't first a well trained gift of discernment of spirits. But I have to accept the fact that discerning of spirits is just listed off as one of the Gifts, so there might be many people out there who have other gifts of the Spirit instead. I've heard it said that empathy is the most basic form of all psychic abilities, which is the ability to sense other individual's feelings and intentions. Personally I would separate between the human capabilities (empathy), and the gift of the Spirit when God adds to it; and also the capacity for demons to add to it in their own fashion.

I also wouldn't put it past God to give the gift of discernment to someone who has no empathy whatsoever. Someone who walks around completely clueless all the time till suddenly BAM!, God shows them something and they actually get it for a brief moment of time.

 

[LeadWorship]

Have any of you ever read "The latent power of the soul" by Watchman Nee?



-LW

 

[Tobias]

Have any of you ever read "The latent power of the soul" by Watchman Nee?



-LW

Yes

 

[LeadWorship]

From what I understood of the OP, that book seems to address it. Psychic powers being soul powers, available to those who have souls - regardless of their loyalties to Supernatural powers - God or other.

 

[Yahu]

From what I understood of the OP, that book seems to address it. Psychic powers being soul powers, available to those who have souls - regardless of their loyalties to Supernatural powers - God or other.

Everyone has souls.

Those powers are just the abilities to interact with spiritual forces. There are many of the abilities mirrored by the enemy via witchcraft. For example, a coven I was in conflict against could bind a spirit to themselves to give them the ability to see into the spiritual realm to see the demons they were summoning in their witchcraft. That is also one of the gifts of the Spirit. Visual discernment of spirits is one of those abilities. I have close friends with visual discernment of spirits that see angels and demons all the time.

Many of the coven members could see the angel that came to protect me when I confronted them at one of their parties. It scared them badly. It was several stories tall and they could see it extending beyond the ceiling.

They didn't have that ability by default but used a witchcraft ritual to bind that ability to themselves. Sometimes those abilities are passed down through family lines.

Other times it is just an openness to spiritual interaction. Sometimes those spirits are sent by Yah while others are sent by the enemy.

 

[LeadWorship]

Yes, I understand everyone has souls, my point was simply that we all have any ability that comes with that very fact.

I do not disagree with you. I too discern spirits - I have since I was young, around 8 years old. I also enjoy reading your posts - keep up the good work!

 

[Tobias]

From what I understood of the OP, that book seems to address it. Psychic powers being soul powers, available to those who have souls - regardless of their loyalties to Supernatural powers - God or other.

Oh, ok. It's been a long time since I read his book.

IIRC he seemed to think that all "soul power" was either enabled by the Holy Spirit, or by demons. sigh His book is just one man's opinion, yet it seems to have been taken as biblical fact by most everybody.


I've read all of Rebbecca Brown's books since reading his, and she leans very heavily upon his theories. So it's hard for me to remember exactly where his teaching stopped and where her's took it further. She has since been discredited as a complete fraud, so I wouldn't take her experiences as an independent confirmation of his observations.

 

[Yahu]

Personally I would separate between the human capabilities (empathy), and the gift of the Spirit when God adds to it; and also the capacity for demons to add to it in their own fashion.

One of the gifts listed is Word of Wisdom. I am not really sure how that gift works. It may be that empathy with the supernatural wisdom to apply it properly.

Just a thought.

 

[Tobias]

One of the gifts listed is Word of Wisdom. I am not really sure how that gift works. It may be that empathy with the supernatural wisdom to apply it properly.

Just a thought.

I would say that people have wisdom, with or without God. God can give extra wisdom, in which case it becomes one of the gifts of the Spirit. Satan can give wisdom too.

The Gifts of the Spirit are over and above human capabilities, and do not include similar gifts from "other" spirits.

 

[superenabled]

Hi Tobias, thank you for your reply. I suppose we're broadly in agreement.

Lead Worship - I actually never read that book but I'm interested now and know enough about Watchman Lee to believe it can only help, if anything. Thanks.

 

[korvus]

Tobias - From your description, I believe your psychic abilities indeed come from demonic powers, as I have stated in the past. Someone who is prophetic, hears from God speaking in their spirit. In fact, most Christians can hear from God speaking to themselves. The prophetic gift is to hear on behalf of others and the Church. It does not also open up your ears to hear demons or other spirits you call 'neutral'. That alone tells me your hearing is coming from a demonic source. The Holy Spirit just doesn't operate that way. Perhaps a good read for you would be Graham Cooke, whose probably the best author on this subject that I've encountered. He has a whole series on the prophetic.

Why must their be a black & white view on weither spirits are good or evil? I dabbled in a lot of spirituality before I became saved (suggested by a spirit I made actually) and assuming any spirit not God is a demon is not wise way to go.

Just like humans, spirits can be undecided and unsure about their positions that they take, which is why I'm saying it's unwise.

Could you please state some personal spiritual experiences you've had?
I'm honestly curious to make sure if we're on the same boat or not.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Why must their be a black & white view on weither spirits are good or evil? I dabbled in a lot of spirituality before I became saved (suggested by a spirit I made actually) and assuming any spirit not God is a demon is not wise way to go.

Just like humans, spirits can be undecided and unsure about their positions that they take, which is why I'm saying it's unwise.

Could you please state some personal spiritual experiences you've had?
I'm honestly curious to make sure if we're on the same boat or not.

No there is definately only two kingdoms -unless I read the Word wrong

 

[lismore]

No there is definately only two kingdoms -unless I read the Word wrong

You're right!

Psalm 1 is a good place to start. It talks about the righteous and the wicked. Two camps, two destinations.

 

[Yahu]

You're right!

Psalm 1 is a good place to start. It talks about the righteous and the wicked. Two camps, two destinations.

Yes but there divisions even in each major came. For example there will be the overcomers that earn rewards in the eternal kingdom and those that don't. There will be the vessels of gold and silver of honor in the Father's house fit for His use and those wood or earthen vessels of dishonor not fit for His use but they are still In His House.

 

[Yahu]

Why must their be a black & white view on weither spirits are good or evil? I dabbled in a lot of spirituality before I became saved (suggested by a spirit I made actually) and assuming any spirit not God is a demon is not wise way to go.

Just like humans, spirits can be undecided and unsure about their positions that they take, which is why I'm saying it's unwise.

Could you please state some personal spiritual experiences you've had?
I'm honestly curious to make sure if we're on the same boat or not.

Let me just say this, I have dealt with women in both white and black witchcraft. Those doing 'white witchcraft' saw what they did as only good, things like love spells and blessings.

So would you consider a spirit that brings about a love spell as evil? Now how they work is they make you feel good in the presences of the target of that love but they also make you feel bad at their absence. It can be very painful. They are also inflicting false emotions onto you that may not otherwise have existed in an attempt to control you. So is it really a good thing?

Now generally spirits serve a specific master. Can some spirits be doing the will of Yah? Of course they can. For example some spirits offered to be 'lying spirits' in the mouth of Ahab's false prophets to bring about Yah's will. Wouldn't a 'lying spirit' be considered bad?

It all comes down to what kingdom it is serving and the goals of that kingdom.