Psalm 74:14 dino extinction reference?

[CobraClutch]

This isn't for serious theological debate, and I'm not making any claims at all, but I when I read this today it sprang out to me as a reference to dinosaur extinction.
As in, the gigantic dinosaurs that are referenced in modern science.

"It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan
and gave it as food to the creatures of the desert."
Psalm 74:14

Even more so with the vast dino fossils found in deserts.
Dumped (crushed) in the flood and left to rot for food in the receded deserts?

I know it is not the main meaning and focus of the verses, but food for thought...for the desert creatures anyway!

 

[AV1611VET]

I know it is not the main meaning and focus of the verses, but food for thought...for the desert creatures anyway!

Sounds good!

Welcome to CF!

 

[CobraClutch]

Sounds good!

Welcome to CF!

Thank you, and you know what? I read it after seeing the ancient creature thread where you (& I) answered Leviathan! So cheers to you double.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thank you, and you know what? I read it after seeing the ancient creature thread where you (& I) answered Leviathan! So cheers to you double.

Great minds think alike, eh?

 

[Aaron112]

Likely not.

The defeat of Leviathan symbolizes God's ultimate victory over evil. Christians are encouraged to live in the assurance of Christ's victory over sin and death.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(14) Leviathan.--See last note.
And gavest him . . .--The crocodile was eaten by the people of Elephantine (Herod. ii. 69), but there is no allusion here to that custom, nor to the Ichthyophagi mentioned by Agatharchides, nor to the 'thiopians (as in the LXX.). It is the Egyptian corpses thrown up by the Red Sea that are to be devoured (comp. Ezekiel 29:3-5) by the "wild beasts," called here "people," as the ants and conies are (Proverbs 30:25-26).



Pulpit Commentary
Verse 14. - Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces. Here the metaphor is only slightly varied, leviathan, "the crocodile," being substituted for tannim, "the dragon," or "sea monster," as the representative of the might of Egypt. And gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness. The corpses of the Egyptians thrown up upon the Red Sea shores (Exodus 14:30) are certainly the "meat" intended. Whether the "people of dwellers in the wilderness" are cannibal tribes, or jackals and hyenas, is perhaps doubtful.

I know it is not the main meaning and focus of the verses, but food for thought...for the desert creatures anyway!

 

[Job 33:6]

This isn't for serious theological debate, and I'm not making any claims at all, but I when I read this today it sprang out to me as a reference to dinosaur extinction.
As in, the gigantic dinosaurs that are referenced in modern science.

"It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan
and gave it as food to the creatures of the desert."
Psalm 74:14

Even more so with the vast dino fossils found in deserts.
Dumped (crushed) in the flood and left to rot for food in the receded deserts?

I know it is not the main meaning and focus of the verses, but food for thought...for the desert creatures anyway!

Leviathan is not a dinosaur.

 

[CobraClutch]

Leviathan is not a dinosaur.

Be careful where you get your information.
I'm not saying you must go along with Creation ministry etc, but Ken Ham has a lifetime of public ministry and study - and at this stage this is just another kid with a YouTube channel, no pedigree (aside from his own claims), and a book released by a tiny (and a bit sketchy) publisher.

Job predates all far east texts, and God describes creatures that He made, and Job understands exactly what he is describing.

 

[Job 33:6]

Be careful where you get your information.
I'm not saying you must go along with Creation ministry etc, but Ken Ham has a lifetime of public ministry and study - and at this stage this is just another kid with a YouTube channel, no pedigree (aside from his own claims), and a book released by a tiny (and a bit sketchy) publisher.

Job predates all far east texts, and God describes creatures that He made, and Job understands exactly what he is describing.

Ken ham has no formal education in ancient near east literature. He can't even read hebrew. Ben Stanhope also isn't just some random kid, he references dozens of PhD Old Testament scholars in his works.

Here is another scholar on leviathan:

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And another:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Hans Blaster]

Be careful where you get your information.
I'm not saying you must go along with Creation ministry etc, but Ken Ham has a lifetime of public ministry and study - and at this stage this is just another kid with a YouTube channel, no pedigree (aside from his own claims), and a book released by a tiny (and a bit sketchy) publisher.

I'm no expert on theology, but I get the distinct impression from those better informed that Ham's Creation-first theology is a bit out there, even among conservative, fundamentalists. On science, which I do know, Ham is a complete fraud.

 

[AV1611VET]

Leviathan is not a dinosaur.

"Dinosaur" is a pretty broad term, covering a wide variety of animals from birds to cryptids.

Calling an animal a "dinosaur" is a lot like calling a toaster an "electrical appliance."

Some don't believe behemoth is a dinosaur because it has a navel ...

Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

Add to the fact that "dinosaur," meaning "terrible lizard," is a misnomer (they aren't lizards at all), and you have the usual academic confusion that permeates our societies.

 

[CobraClutch]

Well, Ken does look a bit out there, ha ha. But so does this Ben Stanhope, lol.

I guess many would say most Christian scientists are frauds.
But I would be interested to know more about your claims about Ham. I don't mean this in a defensive way at all - I mean, he does seem a bit...interesting

 

[CobraClutch]

"Dinosaur" is a pretty broad term, covering a wide variety of animals from birds to cryptids.

Calling an animal a "dinosaur" is a lot like calling a toaster an "electrical appliance."

Some don't believe leviathan is a dinosaur because it has a navel ...

Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

Add to the fact that "dinosaur," meaning "terrible lizard," is a misnomer (they aren't lizards at all), and you have the usual academic confusion that permeates our societies.

You are 100% correct, it is just semantics.
But I do not think he is arguing that. I believe he is saying it was never a real literal animal/creature/dinosaur etc

 

[AV1611VET]

But I do not think he is arguing that. I believe he is saying it was never a real literal animal/creature/dinosaur etc

No comment.

 

[Job 33:6]

Well, Ken does look a bit out there, ha ha. But so does this Ben Stanhope, lol.

I guess many would say most Christian scientists are frauds.
But I would be interested to know more about your claims about Ham. I don't mean this in a defensive way at all - I mean, he does seem a bit...interesting

Why is Ben Stanhope "out there" on leviathan?

Would you say that Ola Wikander is also out there?

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www.youtube.com

Or Micheal Heiser?

Or John Walton

Or tremper Longman III

Or Richard Averbeck?

Or John Collins

Or Bill Arnold

John Oswalt

Madhavi Nevader

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Etc. lots of scholars acknowledge that leviathan has nothing to do with dinosaurs.

 

[Job 33:6]

Why is Ben Stanhope "out there" on leviathan?

Would you say that Ola Wilander is also out there?

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Or Micheal Heiser?

Or John Walton

Or tremper Longman III

Or Richard Averbeck?

Etc. lots of scholars acknowledge that leviathan has nothing to do with dinosaurs.

In fact, the vast majority of old testament scholars would not say that leviathan is a dinosaur. So to say that Ben Stanhope is "out there" on the matter, is to really just demonstrate a lack of familiarity with the subject.

Ken Ham on the other hand, has no credentials on the matter. He's more of a public speaker than he is actually educated on the topic.

Even some popular YECs recognize that leviathan isn't a dinosaur, such as Marcus Ross.

 

[CobraClutch]

Okay, calm down. I said "look", and I mean it literally.
Ken Ham has some weird sideburn beard, and Ben has some crazy high hair thing haha. That was all.

Yes I know, most people in general have always said it was not a dinosaur, but a crocodile or a myth etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ken Ham on the other hand, has no credentials on the matter. He's more of a public speaker than he is actually educated on the topic.

Speaking of being uneducated on a topic, how would/do zoologists categorize satyrs, unicorns, and dragons?

 

[Job 33:6]

Okay, calm down. I said "look", and I mean it literally.
Ken Ham has some weird sideburn beard, and Ben has some crazy high hair thing haha. That was all.

Either way, Ben Stanhope and dozens of top old testament scholars collectively are infinitely more credentialed than Ken Ham. So I would not recommend trying to equate the two. You may as well be equating Ken Ham to the National Academy of Sciences.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Well, Ken does look a bit out there, ha ha. But so does this Ben Stanhope, lol.

Personally, I never heard of him, but then again, I dont' pay much attention to theologians, etc.

I guess many would say most Christian scientists are frauds.

I can't confirm this as I don't know the religion of most scientists, but I am skeptical of this claim. As for me I'm not a Christian, so this doesn't cover me.

But I would be interested to know more about your claims about Ham. I don't mean this in a defensive way at all - I mean, he does seem a bit...interesting

That's certainly a word "interesting", not the one I would use for Ham on science. As for his false scientific claims, that could take a while and they do come up often here, so stick around and you'll see some analysis of his "science."

 

[CobraClutch]

Either way, Ben Stanhope and dozens of top old testament scholars collectively are infinitely more credentialed than Ken Ham. So I would not recommend trying to equate the two. You may as well be equating Ken Ham to the National Academy of Sciences.

I equated the two, because the first thing in the video was a clip of Ken Ham.