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Psalm 22

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kimber1

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i came across something yesterday in reading that i had never known before. in all my years of being a Christian i have never seen it explained this way and just thought i'd share.
in reference to when Jesus said on the cross, "My God, my God, why have you abondoned me?"
what i read was that it was the practice back then for people to memorize the entirety of the psalms and that when you wanted to remind someone of a certain psalm it was charicteristic to just quote the first line.
then go and read the entire psalm 22. where i always wondered what in the world Jesus meant and how in the world could God forsake His Son.....it just puts it into a whole new light! :)
 

geocajun

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NDIrish said:
Yep! And if you read that Psalm, it's not a prayer of despair, but one of ultimate triumph! Even on the cross, Jesus was teaching us that we can overcome our physical deaths, and live forever with Him! How awesome is that???
it is very awesome :)
 
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Benedicta00

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Kimber,

It kind of destroys the substitutionary atonement theory doesn't it? The Protestants believe that Christ was forsaken because he took on our sins, and God separated himself from Him and then when judged Him, He was found righteous so he rose from the dead and anyone who is saved had their sins put to death when Christ was forsaken and judged righteous, that is why they believe they can not lose salvation and why they are righteous now, even though the still sin.

All Jesus was really doing was praying a psalm. In those days they weren’t numbered I and in a book to look up so when you wanted to pray or quote you opened it with the first line of the psalm. The whole psalm was Him prophesizing, fulfiling OT scripture, not claiming God forsaked Him.
 
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kimber1

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i was sharing that with a Protestant friend of mine yesterday and she said she had always been taught that He said that because God can't stand the sight of sin and seeing as how that is what Jesus was carrying on the cross that that's why God "forsook Him"? i mean, i don't know that what i read in that book is etched in stone or anything but it gave me an awesome way of looking at it and i also noticed it has that Imprimatur thingydo on it that i was reading about in another thread ;)
 
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prodromos

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Kimber,

God has no problem looking upon sin or tolerating it in His presence. Sin, however, and particularly those whose hearts are blackened by sin, cannot bear to be in the presence of the All Holy One

Hebrews 12:29
for our "God is a consuming fire."

Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: "Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?"

John.
 
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Benedicta00

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kimber1 said:
i was sharing that with a Protestant friend of mine yesterday and she said she had always been taught that He said that because God can't stand the sight of sin and seeing as how that is what Jesus was carrying on the cross that that's why God "forsook Him"? i mean, i don't know that what i read in that book is etched in stone or anything but it gave me an awesome way of looking at it and i also noticed it has that Imprimatur thingydo on it that i was reading about in another thread ;)

It is heresy to think that God would separate Himself from Himself. Jesus and God are inseparable. Protestants feel that Jesus was some sort of whipping board for God to release His wrath on. Christ did not become sin as many Protestants believe, he willing died for sin. He offers up His life for them, He did not assume them in place of the person. We are responsible for our sins, Christ satisfied the punishment due them, he did not remove responsibility from us for them.

You can begin to see that Protestant theology is not "bible only" beliefs, many Protestants are simply indoctrinated in these beliefs and these beliefs do not come from scripture only, much of it's theology is read into the verses.
 
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ShannonMcCatholic

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This is all really interesting, and I must admit I have always thought the Christ was indeed, forsaken by the Father, as He went into hell- but I guess you can't ever really be forsaken by an omniscent God. Anybody know where I can go read more about this? I find myself wanting a study Bible with notes from Scott Hahn!!
 
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Aaron-Aggie

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Should proably include this

[qoute]Chapter 22
1 1 2 For the leader; according to "The deer of the dawn." A psalm of David. 2 My God, my God, why have you abandoned me? Why so far from my call for help, from my cries of anguish? 3 My God, I call by day, but you do not answer; by night, but I have no relief. 4 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the glory of Israel. 5 In you our ancestors trusted; they trusted and you rescued them. 6 To you they cried out and they escaped; in you they trusted and were not disappointed. 7 3 But I am a worm, hardly human, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. 8 All who see me mock me; they curl their lips and jeer; they shake their heads at me: 9 "You relied on the LORD--let him deliver you; if he loves you, let him rescue you." 10 Yet you drew me forth from the womb, made me safe at my mother's breast. 11 Upon you I was thrust from the womb; since birth you are my God. 12 Do not stay far from me, for trouble is near, and there is no one to help. 13 4 Many bulls surround me; fierce bulls of Bashan encircle me. 14 They open their mouths against me, lions that rend and roar. 15 Like water my life drains away; all my bones grow soft. My heart has become like wax, it melts away within me. 16 5 As dry as a potsherd is my throat; my tongue sticks to my palate; you lay me in the dust of death. 17 Many dogs surround me; a pack of evildoers closes in on me. So wasted are my hands and feet 18 that I can count all my bones. They stare at me and gloat; 19 they divide my garments among them; for my clothing they cast lots. 20 But you, LORD, do not stay far off; my strength, come quickly to help me. 21 Deliver me from the sword, my forlorn life from the teeth of the dog. 22 Save me from the lion's mouth, my poor life from the horns of wild bulls. 23 6 Then I will proclaim your name to the assembly; in the community I will praise you: 24 "You who fear the LORD, give praise! All descendants of Jacob, give honor; show reverence, all descendants of Israel! 25 7 For God has not spurned or disdained the misery of this poor wretch, Did not turn away from me, but heard me when I cried out. 26 I will offer praise in the great assembly; my vows I will fulfill before those who fear him. 27 8 The poor will eat their fill; those who seek the LORD will offer praise. May your hearts enjoy life forever!" 28 All the ends of the earth will worship and turn to the LORD; All the families of nations will bow low before you. 29 For kingship belongs to the LORD, the ruler over the nations. 30 9 All who sleep in the earth will bow low before God; All who have gone down into the dust will kneel in homage. 31 And I will live for the LORD; my descendants will serve you. 32 The generation to come will be told of the Lord, that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn the deliverance you have brought. Table of Contents
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1 [Psalm 22] A lament unusual in structure and in intensity of feeling. The psalmist's present distress is contrasted with God's past mercy in Psalm 22:2-12. In Psalm 22:13-22 enemies surround the psalmist. The last third is an invitation to praise God (Psalm 22:23-27), becoming a universal chorus of praise (Psalm 22:28-31). The psalm is important in the New Testament. Its opening words occur on the lips of the crucified Jesus (Mark 15:34; Matthew 27:46), and several other verses are quoted, or at least alluded to, in the accounts of Jesus' passion (Matthew 27:35, 43; John 19:24).

2 [1] The deer of the dawn: apparently the title of the melody.

3 [7] I am a worm, hardly human: the psalmist's sense of isolation and dehumanization, an important motif of Psalm 22 is vividly portrayed here.

4 [13-14] Bulls: the enemies of the psalmist are also portrayed in less-than-human form, as wild animals (cf Psalm 22:17, 21-22). Bashan: a grazing land east of the Jordan, famed for its cattle. Cf Deut 32:14; Ezekiel 39:18; Amos 4:1

5 [16] The dust of death: the netherworld, the domain of the dead.

6 [23] In the community I will praise you: the person who offered a thanksgiving sacrifice in the temple recounted to the other worshipers the favor received from God and invited them to share in the sacrificial banquet. The final section (Psalm 22:24-32) may be a summary or a citation of the psalmist's poem of praise.

7 [25] Turn away: literally, "hides his face from me," an important metaphor for God withdrawing from someone, e.g., Micah 3:4; Isaiah 8:17; Psalm 27:9; 69:18; 88:15.

8 [27] The poor: originally the poor, who were dependent on God; the term ('anawim) came to include the religious sense of "humble, pious, devout."

9 [30] Hebrew unclear. The translation assumes that all on earth (Psalm 22:27-28) and under the earth (Psalm 22:29) will worship God.



New American Bible Copyright © 1991, 1986, 1970 Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, Inc., Washington, DC. All rights reserved. Neither this work nor any part of it may be reproduced, distributed, performed or displayed in any medium, including electronic or digital, without permission in writing from the copyright owner.[/qoute]
 
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Christy4Christ

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I am freaking out right now! My mind is swimming. Not an hour ago I was thinking about this exact thing. I was sitting here thinking about that line Jesus said and wondering why on earth He would say that. I thought it doesn't make sense to me and doesn't fit because He knew God wouldn't forsake Him. I am just blown away that this information is posted here right now! Everyday I learn something that truly freaks me out to no end about just how amazing He is! Thank you so much for telling me this. I have read the psalm and it is amazing.
 
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Shelb5 said:
Kimber,

It kind of destroys the substitutionary atonement theory doesn't it? The Protestants believe that Christ was forsaken because he took on our sins, and God separated himself from Him and then when judged Him, He was found righteous so he rose from the dead and anyone who is saved had their sins put to death when Christ was forsaken and judged righteous, that is why they believe they can not lose salvation and why they are righteous now, even though the still sin.

All Jesus was really doing was praying a psalm. In those days they weren’t numbered I and in a book to look up so when you wanted to pray or quote you opened it with the first line of the psalm. The whole psalm was Him prophesizing, fulfiling OT scripture, not claiming God forsaked Him.
Gosh Shelb, I didn't know that! I was well aware of the "once saved, always saved" heresy, but I didn't know how it originated. Interesting! Thanks for the tidbit.
 
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