• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

PSALM 119

1watchman

Overseer
Site Supporter
Oct 9, 2010
6,040
1,228
Washington State
✟358,418.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thoughts On Psalm 119
It is noteworthy that in Psalm 119 the psalmist makes reference to the expectations of God in various ways in almost every verse of the 176 verses. We might consider them here as to some meaning and application. They were valued by faithful OT saints.

Word - the revelations of and by God;

Law - rules and regulations for Israel;

Statutes - all directives given;

Judgments - decisions of God;

Testimonies - truth of facts;

Way - purposes of God;

Commandments - firm commands;

Precepts - principles and truths to follow;

Ordinances - policies and expectations.

It is further noteworthy that all the Ten Commandment laws of God for Israel are also found in the New Testament, except the law for the Sabbath day (creation beginning) which was replaced by the First Day (the newer Beginning). In the NT these laws are God's standards and expectations, and not given as requirements as in the OT. Failure by saints to hold them today and honor God, might mean forfeiture of blessing and rewards in Heaven, not as penalties. One might meditate on these understandings for some insight. - R. DeWitt
 

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,975
4,726
Hudson
✟376,876.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Thoughts On Psalm 119
It is noteworthy that in Psalm 119 the psalmist makes reference to the expectations of God in various ways in almost every verse of the 176 verses. We might consider them here as to some meaning and application. They were valued by faithful OT saints.

Word - the revelations of and by God;

Law - rules and regulations for Israel;

Statutes - all directives given;

Judgments - decisions of God;

Testimonies - truth of facts;

Way - purposes of God;

Commandments - firm commands;

Precepts - principles and truths to follow;

Ordinances - policies and expectations.

It is further noteworthy that all the Ten Commandment laws of God for Israel are also found in the New Testament, except the law for the Sabbath day (creation beginning) which was replaced by the First Day (the newer Beginning). In the NT these laws are God's standards and expectations, and not given as requirements as in the OT. Failure by saints to hold them today and honor God, might mean forfeiture of blessing and rewards in Heaven, not as penalties. One might meditate on these understandings for some insight. - R. DeWitt

At no point that Psalms 119 specify that it is talking about the Ten Commandments, but rather it is referring to all of the Mosaic law. So the question is...does your view of the Mosaic law line up with that expressed in Psalms 119 and the rest of the Psalms? Paul said that our faith upholds the law (Romans 3:31) and that he delighted in obeying it (Romans 7:22), so his view of the Mosaic law lined up with the Psalms, and ours should too. Man has no authority to countermand God's commands or to set aside God's laws to follow our own traditions (Mark 7:6-8), so we should instead delight in keeping the Sabbath on the 7th day and consider it a divine privilege to do what God has revealed in the Mosaic law to be holy, righteous, and good and to avoid doing what He has revealed to be sin. In the NT we are required not to do what can has revealed to be sin, so while the Mosaic law is God's standard and expectation, it is also our requirement. It is not something that we are required to do in order to become saved, but because God is saving us by grace through faith from doing what He has revealed to be sin. We are saved for the purpose of doing what God has revealed in His law to be good works (Ephesians 2:10).
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,393
✟177,942.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
Thoughts On Psalm 119
Word - the revelations of and by God;

Law - rules and regulations for Israel;

Statutes - all directives given;

Judgments - decisions of God;

Testimonies - truth of facts;

Way - purposes of God;

Commandments - firm commands;

Precepts - principles and truths to follow;

Ordinances - policies and expectations.

Just curious. Where did you get these definitions? Are they consistent with the meanings of the Hebrew text beneath the translation?
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
83
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,475.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
We know, or at least suspect, that Matthew was a scribe and that the Jewish scriptures, and possibly the Christian as well, were written in a style known as midrashic literature . We're leading up to something here but we don't yet have the whole picture. The next step is to look at how Jewish worship services were conducted in the synagogues of the first century.

I'll content myself with just one more remarkable example from the gospel of Matthew. Fifty days following Passover, the ancient Jewish lectionary called for the Feast of Pentecost. This feast remembered Moses at Mount Sinai and celebrated the wonder and virtues of the Torah. This celebration took the form of a vigil. The day was broken into eight segments of three hours each and, just like a vigil in a modern Christian church, the congregation of the synagogue would divide themselves up in such a way that there was always a group in the synagogue for each of the eight portions of the vigil. The principle reading was Psalm 119.

At 176 verses, this is by far the longest of the psalms. It is broken into 22 stanzas each marked by a letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The first stanza, Aleph, was the meditation for the first segment of the vigil. The entire congregation was probably present at this point and a full worship service was likely held. The remaining 21 stanzas were broken into seven groups of three each, one group for each of the remaining seven portions of the vigil. The second portion of the vigil, for example, would meditate on stanzas Beth, Gimel and Daleth. The remarkable organization of the psalm strongly suggests that it was written specifically for use in the vigil. There are other clues to that as well, for example: verse 62: "At midnight I rise to praise thee." and verse 147: "I rise before dawn and cry for help." and a number of other similar verses as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Soyeong
Upvote 0

1watchman

Overseer
Site Supporter
Oct 9, 2010
6,040
1,228
Washington State
✟358,418.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I found the paper interesting, for it seemed to suggest to me how the rules and regulations God set forth in the OT ---like the Ten Commandments God gave, apply even today, though by choice of faithful ones without the severe judgments for failure as in the OT. Anyway, it is always interesting to see how our God works with mankind.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,975
4,726
Hudson
✟376,876.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
I found the paper interesting, for it seemed to suggest to me how the rules and regulations God set forth in the OT ---like the Ten Commandments God gave, apply even today, though by choice of faithful ones without the severe judgments for failure as in the OT. Anyway, it is always interesting to see how our God works with mankind.

While there is no condemnation for those who are in Messiah (Romans 8:1), those who are in Messiah ought to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:3-6), so following Messiah example of obedience to OT rules and regulations is not an optional choice for those who are followers of Messiah.
 
Upvote 0

DPMartin

Active Member
Apr 12, 2013
210
19
✟30,457.00
Faith
Christian
The law is a witness, for our sakes, to it’s fulfillment in Christ. No one can fulfill the law, (again a witness to one who isn’t the Christ just as it is a witness to the Christ) unless they have the Life or nature to fulfill it, which is the Life of Christ, and not human nature in the flesh of dust to dust. A salmon can’t be like or do what dogs do without the life that a dog has. No one can hope to be acceptable before God, the law’s fulfillment, without the Life of Jesus Christ that is that fulfillment according to the law to God His Father’s satisfaction, which is God’s will for men.


Hence what Paul explains:

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



One can't live the Life that is lived in the Kingdom of Heaven, unless that Life be from Heaven, that lives in the Kingdom of Heaven.
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
83
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,475.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
We know, or at least suspect, that Matthew was a scribe and that the Jewish scriptures, and possibly the Christian as well, were written in a style known as midrashic literature . We're leading up to something here but we don't yet have the whole picture. The next step is to look at how Jewish worship services were conducted in the synagogues of the first century.

I'll content myself with just one more remarkable example from the gospel of Matthew. Fifty days following Passover, the ancient Jewish lectionary called for the Feast of Pentecost. This feast remembered Moses at Mount Sinai and celebrated the wonder and virtues of the Torah. This celebration took the form of a vigil. The day was broken into eight segments of three hours each and, just like a vigil in a modern Christian church, the congregation of the synagogue would divide themselves up in such a way that there was always a group in the synagogue for each of the eight portions of the vigil. The principle reading was Psalm 119.

At 176 verses, this is by far the longest of the psalms. It is broken into 22 stanzas each marked by a letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The first stanza, Aleph, was the meditation for the first segment of the vigil. The entire congregation was probably present at this point and a full worship service was likely held. The remaining 21 stanzas were broken into seven groups of three each, one group for each of the remaining seven portions of the vigil. The second portion of the vigil, for example, would meditate on stanzas Beth, Gimel and Daleth. The remarkable organization of the psalm strongly suggests that it was written specifically for use in the vigil. There are other clues to that as well, for example: verse 62: "At midnight I rise to praise thee." and verse 147: "I rise before dawn and cry for help." and a number of other similar verses as well.

I just realized that my earlier post above is incomplete. The remainder follows:

Let us now investigate how the Christian scribe, Matthew, used the midrashic technique to introduce Jesus into this Jewish feast of Pentecost. As mentioned earlier, Pentecost honored Moses and the Law received on Mount Sinai. Matthew portrayed Jesus as the new Moses delivering a new law on a new mountain. I refer of course to the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5:17-29). The sermon is organized to fit the vigil format that we've already examined. The Sermon begins with an octave of eight blessings or beatitudes, and in typical Jewish literary style, the eight blessings are bracketed by making the first and the last reward identical. Thus both "the poor in spirit" and those "persecuted for righteousness sake" are promised the Kingdom of God. The remainder of the Sermon is divided into eight sections, each of which is an exposition of one of the beatitudes. Again in typical Jewish literary style, the last beatitude is explained first and so on working backward through the list. It also goes, almost without saying, that these eight expositions on the new Law of Jesus fit perfectly into the eight portions of the vigil of Pentecost.

What does this tell us about the Sermon on the Mount? Was it an actual historical event in the life of Jesus? There is of course a remote possibility that it actually was. However, in light of the very artificial arrangement of the Sermon to fit neatly into the Feast of Pentecost, I would suggest that there was no one event in the ministry of Jesus that could be classified as the Sermon on the Mount. Should we therefore throw it out as unhistorical? NEVER! What is important here is not whether the Sermon on the Mount was an historical event but that the content of the Sermon reflects the authentic teaching of Jesus. The fact that this teaching was probably done over a period of time in many different teaching situations is not nearly as important as the basic truth of these teachings. To put it a different way, the authority of scripture does not rely upon the details of its historicity but rather upon its ability to instruct us spiritually and point us in the direction of God.
 
Upvote 0

Steve Petersen

Senior Veteran
May 11, 2005
16,077
3,393
✟177,942.00
Faith
Deist
Politics
US-Libertarian
The law is a witness, for our sakes, to it’s fulfillment in Christ. No one can fulfill the law, (again a witness to one who isn’t the Christ just as it is a witness to the Christ) unless they have the Life or nature to fulfill it, which is the Life of Christ, and not human nature in the flesh of dust to dust. A salmon can’t be like or do what dogs do without the life that a dog has. No one can hope to be acceptable before God, the law’s fulfillment, without the Life of Jesus Christ that is that fulfillment according to the law to God His Father’s satisfaction, which is God’s will for men.


Hence what Paul explains:

Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



One can't live the Life that is lived in the Kingdom of Heaven, unless that Life be from Heaven, that lives in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Anyone can 'fulfill' the law. It is a Jewish idiom meaning 'uphold, affirm, support.' There are numerous instances of this usage in the Mishnah.

Its opposite is 'abolish.'
 
Upvote 0