Prv: Concerning the Poor

[bcbsr]

CONCERNING THE POOR

Pr 29:7 The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.

Taking care of the poor is naturally part of the Christian life. It's inherent in the command to love one another and is commended throughout the Bible - both Old Testament and New. Jesus taught his followers, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor." Luke 12:23 And the first Gentile Christians was commended for such actions when an angel told him, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God." Acts 10:4 The apostles had this very thing in mind when Paul was affirmed who testified, "All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do." Gal 2:10

But while we normally thing of providing for the material needs of the poor, these proverbs also speak of providing them a voice - caring for issues of justice.

Pr 31:8,9 "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

 

[OldWiseGuy]

First we must discern who is actually poor. Lots of fakers and takers out there.

 

[SANTOSO]

First we must discern who is actually poor. Lots of fakers and takers out there.

Beloved one, who is actually poor ? This is what we have heard:

But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? -1 John 3:17

So we discern those who is actually poor, those whom we perceive as our brother in need.

Yes, there are fakers and takers out there. If they fake to be poor, we discern the fakers are not poor. So they are not the poor who have needs.

If they are takers, they take what belong to the poor. This is what we have heard:

“I know that the Lord will maintain
The cause of the afflicted,
And justice for the poor.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭140:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So beloved one,
Will the Lord not maintain justice for the poor when takers take what belong to the poor ? Will the Lord not maintain the cause of the afflicted who are poor ?
The Lord will.

beloved one, consider what we have heard:
“For He shall stand at the right hand of the poor,
To save him from those who condemn him.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭109:31‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Beloved one, let us not condemn the poor as fakers and takers, for the Lord shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those who condemn him.

Beloved one, Let us not close our hearts, when we see our brother in need. Let God’s love abide in us, that we love those who are poor.

May God’s grace be with you. Amen.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Beloved one, who is actually poor ? This is what we have heard:

But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? -1 John 3:17

So we discern those who is actually poor, those whom we perceive as our brother in need.

Yes, there are fakers and takers out there. If they fake to be poor, we discern the fakers are not poor. So they are not the poor who have needs.

If they are takers, they take what belong to the poor. This is what we have heard:

“I know that the Lord will maintain
The cause of the afflicted,
And justice for the poor.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭140:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So beloved one,
Will the Lord not maintain justice for the poor when takers take what belong to the poor ? Will the Lord not maintain the cause of the afflicted who are poor ?
The Lord will.

beloved one, consider what we have heard:
“For He shall stand at the right hand of the poor,
To save him from those who condemn him.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭109:31‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Beloved one, let us not condemn the poor as fakers and takers, for the Lord shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those who condemn him.

Beloved one, Let us not close our hearts, when we see our brother in need. Let God’s love abide in us, that we love those who are poor.

May God’s grace be with you. Amen.

Fortunately our social services system is well able to determine who is actually poor enough to merit help. So it's all good.

 

[SANTOSO]

Fortunately our social services system is well able to determine who is actually poor enough to merit help. So it's all good.

Thank God for those who aid the poor like those who are in social services system you have there. But there are those not only poor physically but poor in spirit who may have need, that we should also exhort in the faith.
May God give us the strength to refresh them. Let us not be ashamed of the chain of righteousness of the Lord’s saints. Let us seek them zealously and find them, that we may minister to them in many ways. To God be all glory. Amen.

 

[Sunshinee777]

CONCERNING THE POOR

Pr 29:7 The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.

Taking care of the poor is naturally part of the Christian life. It's inherent in the command to love one another and is commended throughout the Bible - both Old Testament and New. Jesus taught his followers, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor." Luke 12:23 And the first Gentile Christians was commended for such actions when an angel told him, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God." Acts 10:4 The apostles had this very thing in mind when Paul was affirmed who testified, "All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do." Gal 2:10

But while we normally thing of providing for the material needs of the poor, these proverbs also speak of providing them a voice - caring for issues of justice.

Pr 31:8,9 "Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

Why is it so that it is much easier to give for church but when you see homeless on the streets, you walk by. And I have heard some christians say ”well they use them in drugs” yes, maby or maby not. They are still poor. Jesus didn’t say, that give to the poor, but nevermind those who use drugs. They are the ones who need the love the most. And understanding.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why is it so that it is much easier to give for church but when you see homeless on the streets, you walk by. And I have heard some christians say ”well they use them in drugs” yes, maby or maby not. They are still poor. Jesus didn’t say, that give to the poor, but nevermind those who use drugs. They are the ones who need the love the most. And understanding.

Many live on the street by choice and panhandle to support their needs, which often includes drugs. Many are also hard-core drug users, who are the primary customers of the drug cartels and the 'lynchpin' of the entire drug problem.

 

[SANTOSO]

Why is it so that it is much easier to give for church but when you see homeless on the streets, you walk by. And I have heard some christians say ”well they use them in drugs” yes, maby or maby not. They are still poor. Jesus didn’t say, that give to the poor, but nevermind those who use drugs. They are the ones who need the love the most. And understanding.

I do not say that we should not give to the church but how many really know how much the church gave to the poor. I know a church have a considerable set amount of money for church building. I don’t say that they should not build if the Lord told them. Have we considered how wise the church have been using the money? All the money the church spent every month, are they spending on the activities and ministries, that accords with God’s will ? or do non profit organizations, social services, and philanthropy works do better jobs in accord with God’s will ? Do non profit organizations, social services, and philanthropy works have more compassion and understanding to those who were lost and go astray like drug users than the church? Have the church forgotten what our Lord Jesus Christ have said :

““Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:10-12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Aren’t the little ones those were lost and go astray like the drug users ? Didn’t our Lord told us to take heed not to despise the little ones? Why there are churches that despise the drug users ?

Also, are they not many saints of God in the church who are poor? Have we closed our eyes and hearts to the need of the saints ? How many who went to church really know the needs the families of the servants of Christ in the church for every month ? Have those who went to church, know whether their needs have been met or not ? Shouldnt we be compassionate or they are too shameful to tell the truth about their needs?

Why there is no transparency regarding this in the church? Why the church hide how they spent the money ? If they are not hiding! Why no one consider how the church progress in spending in accord with God’s will ? Should the church practice what the church preach so that those in congregation know how to spend money rightly in accord with God’s will ?

Why the servants of Christ and stewards of God are not forthcoming with the needs of their family before all the congregation? Why can’t the congregation know when or not their needs met ? Why are this cloak or veil ? Are there anyone greedy for money ? Can the congregation know whether they are whether there are those greedy or not or whether or not they are falsely pious ?

How do we ascertain trustworthiness ? Can we not ascertain through how we give to the poor who are in the church and outside the church? Let us ask wisdom from God, and may the Lord guide us aright in all things of God.

To God be all glory. Amen.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Churches generally do a pretty good job with the resources they have. Regarding the nature of the physical and spiritual needs, and other problems, of individual members privacy and discretion are very important. No one wants their dirty laundry aired before the whole congregation. I was once called to my pastors office to discuss a certain married woman who had designs on me, that had been noticed by others. I was cautioned about this and advised to avoid her. I can't imagine this sort of thing being broadcast to the rest of the church. Also most are well aware of the material needs of it's poorer members.

 

[Sunshinee777]

”Aren’t the little ones those were lost and go astray like the drug users ? Didn’t our Lord told us to take heed not to despise the little ones? Why there are churches that despise the drug users ? ”

For Santoso:

I have been thinking the same thing, despising someone because they either choose or are led into drugs in way or another is not what Jesus would have done. Jesus were holding hands of an leper, He didn’t abandon anybody. (Not comparing drugs to a leper directly just giving example of Jesus love)
We should love all people regardless their choices, and in the end we all make bad choices sometimes.

 

[bèlla]

Churches generally do a pretty good job with the resources they have.

Organizations are more likely to verify circumstances than individuals. I recall a situation involving my prayer partner. He exhausted the church's assistance and had medical problems. But upon discussion I discovered he'd neglected to apply for benefits. He was relying on my prayer partner and another to pay his bills and feed him!

I was livid and insisted she require him to do so. She didn't have the discretionary income to do it indefinitely and I felt he was taking advantage of her. After several conversations she did as I suggested and he applied for medical, food, and utility assistance. A short time later his social security application was approved. She admitted she should have forced the issue long ago. If memory serves she supported him for six months.

 

[Swan7]

The post was good. We all need reminders of who it is we serve, and of course, with discernment from God. We should love our neighbors as we love God and ourselves. This post reminds me of how the church was in Paul's era. The community of Christ loved in this way.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Organizations are more likely to verify circumstances than individuals. I recall a situation involving my prayer partner. He exhausted the church's assistance and had medical problems. But upon discussion I discovered he'd neglected to apply for benefits. He was relying on my prayer partner and another to pay his bills and feed him!

I was livid and insisted she require him to do so. She didn't have the discretionary income to do it indefinitely and I felt he was taking advantage of her. After several conversations she did as I suggested and he applied for medical, food, and utility assistance. A short time later his social security application was approved. She admitted she should have forced the issue long ago. If memory serves she supported him for six months.

My church's policy was that needy members seek all avenues of public assistance as well. That's just good stewardship.

 

[SANTOSO]

Churches generally do a pretty good job with the resources they have. Regarding the nature of the physical and spiritual needs, and other problems, of individual members privacy and discretion are very important. No one wants their dirty laundry aired before the whole congregation. I was once called to my pastors office to discuss a certain married woman who had designs on me, that had been noticed by others. I was cautioned about this and advised to avoid her. I can't imagine this sort of thing being broadcast to the rest of the church. Also most are well aware of the material needs of it's poorer members.

Beloved one, I don’t understand the story that you related that you were once called to your pastors office to discuss a certain married woman who had designs on you, that had been noticed by others; what this story have to do with giving, or even giving to the poor ; why you are using this story to justify the church for their financial privacy and discretion.

For we heard:
But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God." -John 3:21

If they are really the church, if they have done what is true, why they don’t come to the light, why they hide under the guise of financial privacy and discretion like the world.

If they are really the church, if they have come to the light, their financial giving can be clearly seen that their works have been carried out in God. Otherwise, they haven’t been carried out in God but they used God’s name to deceive, and acting with false pious so that they can continue on their greed for money, despising the poor and feeding on the gullible under the pretense of financial privacy and discretion.

For we heard:
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -1 Peter 4:17

Since apostle Peter said that it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God, we should be concerned with unjust stewards that are in the household of God whom have been wasting His goods.

For we heard our Lord said:
“He also said to His disciples: “There was a certain rich man who had a steward, and an accusation was brought to him that this man was wasting his goods.

So he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward.’”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:1-2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So those who are in household of God who are stewards should give accounts of their stewardship, even if they said that they are the Lord’s disciples. What account they have given ? What we have heard from them ?
Have they really obeyed the gospel of God ? or have they really obeyed a different gospel, that is, the gospel of privacy and discretion ?

Do the holy church fear to come to the light ? No. Do the holy church fear of prosecution? No. So if they fear to come to the light, if they fear prosecution, for declaring their financial activities, they are not the holy church. Holy church will not fear to declare what their financial activities, but they will tell what activities, services and gifts they have ministered that they are in accord with Christ have spoken in the Holy Scripture. Even if the holy church is prosecuted, and crucified, they will be glad that they have been counted worthy to suffer for Christ’s name.

To God be all glory. Amen

 

[SANTOSO]

”Aren’t the little ones those were lost and go astray like the drug users ? Didn’t our Lord told us to take heed not to despise the little ones? Why there are churches that despise the drug users ? ”

For Santoso:

I have been thinking the same thing, despising someone because they either choose or are led into drugs in way or another is not what Jesus would have done. Jesus were holding hands of an leper, He didn’t abandon anybody. (Not comparing drugs to a leper directly just giving example of Jesus love)
We should love all people regardless their choices, and in the end we all make bad choices sometimes.

Beloved one, I agree for the most part wth what you said except the part you said “and in the end we all make bad choices sometimes.”

Beloved one, let us pray that no one makes bad choices in the end. Though some may sometimes make bad choices in the end, let us not say that. If we said that, as if we are saying that we don’t love them and that there is no hope for them to repent and be saved. Let us take heed what our Lord said not to despise those who were lost and go astray including drug users, for the angel of these little ones always see the face of the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let us love those are poor who were lost and go astray. Let us love the drug user, not because of their works, but because our Lord will rejoice when He find them. Let us love them through the love of Christ, that they may come to His grace of repentance.

Beloved one, didn’t the drug user consider themselves at the end of the earth ?
This is what we have heard:
Hear my cry, O God, listen to my prayer;
from the end of the earth I call to you when my heart is faint. Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, -Psalms 61:1-2

This is the prayer answered that we heard:

By awesome deeds you answer us with righteousness, O God of our salvation, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas; -Psalms 65:5
the one who by His strength established the mountains, being girded with might; -Psalms 65:6
who stills the roaring of the seas, the roaring of their waves, the tumult of the peoples, -Psalms 65:7
so that those who dwell at the ends of the earth are in awe at Your signs. You make the going out of the morning and the evening to shout for joy. -Psalms 65:8

So let us love those drug users with the love of Christ, that they may find the hope of all the end of the earth, God of our salvation.

To God be all glory. Amen

 

[SANTOSO]

Organizations are more likely to verify circumstances than individuals. I recall a situation involving my prayer partner. He exhausted the church's assistance and had medical problems. But upon discussion I discovered he'd neglected to apply for benefits. He was relying on my prayer partner and another to pay his bills and feed him!

I was livid and insisted she require him to do so. She didn't have the discretionary income to do it indefinitely and I felt he was taking advantage of her. After several conversations she did as I suggested and he applied for medical, food, and utility assistance. A short time later his social security application was approved. She admitted she should have forced the issue long ago. If memory serves she supported him for six months.

Beloved one,
Is this guy, a representative of the church whom your friend supported for six months? I am surprised that that church burden her ?
How does that church verify this circumstance? I am still puzzled how they acted. Have they been faithful and wise ?

 

[SANTOSO]

My church's policy was that needy members seek all avenues of public assistance as well. That's just good stewardship.

Beloved one, I don’t understand how your church consider stewardship; is public assistance considered under your church stewardship; more like your church trying to avoid any needy members.

For we heard:
“For He will deliver the needy when he cries, The poor also, and him who has no helper.

He will spare the poor and needy, And will save the souls of the needy.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭72:12-13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So according to your church policy, don’t let the needy cries to God, and don’t let God spare the needy but let them as needy members seek themselves seek all avenues of public assistance and don’t waste time praying to God.

Perhaps your church will let them pray or pray on their behalf.

Also, we heard :
“But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?”
‭‭I John‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Does your church consider to have this world’s goods ? Perhaps he doesn’t. So when he sees his brother in need, and you may consider him not shutting up his heart, but you may consider that the love of God abide in him.

would that you consider as good stewardship ? May be as a member of your church, you will never have any need ? May be that is good for you. Just be careful when you have a need.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Beloved one, I don’t understand how your church consider stewardship; is public assistance considered under your church stewardship; more like your church trying to avoid any needy members.

For we heard:
“For He will deliver the needy when he cries, The poor also, and him who has no helper.

He will spare the poor and needy, And will save the souls of the needy.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭72:12-13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So according to your church policy, don’t let the needy cries to God, and don’t let God spare the needy but let them as needy members seek themselves seek all avenues of public assistance and don’t waste time praying to God.

Perhaps your church will let them pray or pray on their behalf.

Also, we heard :
“But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?”
‭‭I John‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Does your church consider to have this world’s goods ? Perhaps he doesn’t. So when he sees his brother in need, and you may consider him not shutting up his heart, but you may consider that the love of God abide in him.

would that you consider as good stewardship ? May be as a member of your church, you will never have any need ? May be that is good for you. Just be careful when you have a need.

Church members also support government social services through their taxes. Why shouldn't needy members avail themselves of these services first?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Beloved one, I don’t understand the story that you related that you were once called to your pastors office to discuss a certain married woman who had designs on you, that had been noticed by others; what this story have to do with giving, or even giving to the poor ; why you are using this story to justify the church for their financial privacy and discretion.

For we heard:
But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God." -John 3:21

If they are really the church, if they have done what is true, why they don’t come to the light, why they hide under the guise of financial privacy and discretion like the world.

If they are really the church, if they have come to the light, their financial giving can be clearly seen that their works have been carried out in God. Otherwise, they haven’t been carried out in God but they used God’s name to deceive, and acting with false pious so that they can continue on their greed for money, despising the poor and feeding on the gullible under the pretense of financial privacy and discretion.

For we heard:
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? -1 Peter 4:17

Since apostle Peter said that it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God, we should be concerned with unjust stewards that are in the household of God whom have been wasting His goods.

For we heard our Lord said:
“He also said to His disciples: “There was a certain rich man who had a steward, and an accusation was brought to him that this man was wasting his goods.

So he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward.’”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:1-2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

So those who are in household of God who are stewards should give accounts of their stewardship, even if they said that they are the Lord’s disciples. What account they have given ? What we have heard from them ?
Have they really obeyed the gospel of God ? or have they really obeyed a different gospel, that is, the gospel of privacy and discretion ?

Do the holy church fear to come to the light ? No. Do the holy church fear of prosecution? No. So if they fear to come to the light, if they fear prosecution, for declaring their financial activities, they are not the holy church. Holy church will not fear to declare what their financial activities, but they will tell what activities, services and gifts they have ministered that they are in accord with Christ have spoken in the Holy Scripture. Even if the holy church is prosecuted, and crucified, they will be glad that they have been counted worthy to suffer for Christ’s name.

To God be all glory. Amen

Most congregations are famous for having lean budgets. As one pastor quipped, "The work of God is always in financial trouble".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Santoso, it must be acknowledged that the poor in America are 'well off' by the standards that you are likely familiar with in your country. Those living in the streets here are there mainly by choice. Also poverty in this country is usually a temporary condition although there is some generational poverty (these poor 'are always with you').