proving evolution as just a "theory"

[ruthiesea]

Exactly, God was the designer.

Which has nothing to with the science, just as science, evolution in particular, does not deny the existence in G-d.

 

[Astrophile]

The Genesis story was told by neolithic man who was groping for knowlede about the world and his place in it. I do not understand why anyone could give precedence to a fable over that of modern science.

In fact most if not all of the book of Genesis was probably written during the first millennium BCE, which puts it during the Iron Age (or the Late Bronze Age at the earliest), not during the neolithic.

 

[rjs330]

That is a separate question which is not addressed, as far as I can see, by II Peter 1:21.

I believe that's what they spoke, more or less, because of the accounts in Scripture.

But keep in mind, that is not the question we are addressing, but the narrower issue of whether II Peter 1:21 asserts that God wrote the Bible. That is the claim being made.

The stories of Holy Men speaking could actually be allegorical. They might not have spoken at all. The holy men may not have even existed. They could be allegorical stories could they not?

 

[rjs330]

Which has nothing to with the science, just as science, evolution in particular, does not deny the existence in G-d.

No but it does what God said. Do you believe theistic evolution is just as valid and non theistic evolution?

 

[Aman777]

So we agree that the passage tells us that ancienty holy men spoke as they were inspired by the Holy Ghost.

Where in that passage does Peter assert that they also wrote it down?

Moreover, you assert that the passage proves that God wrote the entire Bible. No, I still think it is you who are out of luck with that. By any reading, in English or Greek, the passage doesn't even hint at such a thing, much less does it prove it.

It does when supported by other verses from Scripture such as this one:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The word "inspiration" in Greek theopneustos means God breathed. Combine this with the last verse you asked about and you will see that the Holy Spirit breathed His Truth to the holy men who preached and wrote it down. Notice also that this includss "ALL" Scripture in the Bible. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Nonsense and wishful thinking is the only legitimate way to those views.

Since we are presently in the last days, IF you live long enough, you will see that God's Truth will be made apparent to "ALL FLESH". Act 2:17 Can you tell us HOW God will accomplish this feat to atheists, agnostics and phonies?

 

[Aman777]

From my standpoint I hate to see fellow Christians fielding such fatuous arguments; it is a discredit to the Christian faith.

Should we believe you or God's Holy Word? I vote for God.

 

[Aman777]

Yes evidence can be examined. But when it comes to evolution evidence is interpretive. It is not definitive. Evidence has to be testable and reproducible in order to be accurate. Current observations does not show the accuracy of common ancestry.

Depends on your outlook. ALL Humans are the descendants of Adam. We have the superior intelligence which ONLY Adam and God have Gen 3:22 AND we also have the DNA of ancient prehistoric people in our genetics. Our common ancestor is Adam.

 

[Aman777]

No but it does what God said. Do you believe theistic evolution is just as valid and non theistic evolution?

NO, since TE falsely teaches that Humans evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. When you ask them for evidence of How and When God's superior intelligence got inside prehistoric people, they run away from the question.

 

[Speedwell]

It does when supported by other verses from Scripture such as this one:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

No doubt, but you did not present that verse as part of your argument.

The word "inspiration" in Greek theopneustos means God breathed. Combine this with the last verse you asked about and you will see that the Holy Spirit breathed His Truth to the holy men who preached and wrote it down. Notice also that this includss "ALL" Scripture in the Bible. Amen?

Nothing about even the two verses combined suggests that the holy men wrote it down themselves. I'm not even sure why you insist on the point, since if the recording of their words was inspired by God it wouldn't make any difference.

As what is inspired scripture, the context of II Timothy suggests that it refers to the Tanakh. If you want to extend divine inspiration to the (then yet unwritten) New Testament, you have to make a separate argument.

 

[Speedwell]

Should we believe you or God's Holy Word? I vote for God.

I vote for God, too, but certainly not for your interpretation of scripture.

 

[pitabread]

1) again: this is the exceptional rather then the general.

It's not really that exceptional, especially when dealing with aircraft that operate in remote areas. It's more the norm in those situations.

2) the wheel itself is conserve. other kinds of "wheels" arent realy wheels so we can consider them as another parts (or in this case other proteins\genes). so a wheel shape is conserve when other parts arnet.

Except they clearly are not as evident by the examples I provided. In these cases, design is dictated by function; specifically, the ability to land/take-off on different surfaces.

actually this logo is very important to the company, since the ford company want you to know who made those cars. so it may even support my position.

The logos are not functionally important to the objects in question, and that was essentially your argument.

Now on the flipside, you could argue that the logos do have functional importance but they aren't necessarily conserved within a given set of objects. For example, there are plenty of trucks, mugs and roofs not bearing the Ford logo. So in that context, the Ford logo wouldn't necessarily be an indication of a conserved design within a given class of objects.

If anything the Ford logo represents the type of chimeric design I've pointed out in the past. A designer can easily mix 'n match designs between different objects; and we see this all the time in the design world.

Oddly enough we don't see this in nature, except either in cases of obvious HGT. Or we see it in the lab, where scientists do things like create glow-in-the-dark rabbits.

 

[Speedwell]

The stories of Holy Men speaking could actually be allegorical. They might not have spoken at all. The holy men may not have even existed. They could be allegorical stories could they not?

What strange notions people get when they tie the truth of the Bible to a literal and inerrant Genesis. Such a thing certainly would not occur to me.

 

[Speedwell]

No but it does what God said. Do you believe theistic evolution is just as valid and non theistic evolution?

There really is no difference between them, except for the (unfalsifiable) presence of divine Telos.

 

[Aman777]

No doubt, but you did not present that verse as part of your argument.

Nothing about even the two verses combined suggests that the holy men wrote it down themselves. I'm not even sure why you insist on the point, since if the recording of their words was inspired by God it wouldn't make any difference.

As what is inspired scripture, the context of II Timothy suggests that it refers to the Tanakh. If you want to extend divine inspiration to the (then yet unwritten) New Testament, you have to make a separate argument.

Not so, since the FIRST 34 verses of Genesis tell us the complete story and ALL of the rest of the Bible refers BACK to one of the 7 Days of Creation shown in those verses. It's an OUTLINE of the Creation and the DETAILS are shown from Gen 2:4 to the end of Revelation. God KNEW that some would try and use only portions of His Holy Word so He told the complete story in the beginning. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

I vote for God, too, but certainly not for your interpretation of scripture.

Then tell us your view and I will show you how easy it is to refute it Scripturally. God Bless you

 

[Speedwell]

Then tell us your view and I will show you how easy it is to refute it Scripturally. God Bless you

Been there, done that, bought the CD and carried away the tote bag. My view has been serving me and billions of Christians like me for two millenia. I'm doing fine with it. Even if the theory of evolution was disproven tomorrow, I wouldn't change it. Not on topic for this thread, nor the stuff I've been hectoring rjs about anyway.

 

[doubtingmerle]

And you also have yet to see something evolve from the common ancestor.

You have yet to see God pop any animal into existence out of nothing.

I at least have evidence.

You have yet to see some common ancestor split into spiders from whatever it was before that and then continue to to evolve into two separate things.

You have yet to see a woman formed out of a rib.

I at least have evidence.

You have never seen dogs (k9s) be anything but dogs or cats be anything but cats.

You have never seen talking donkeys or snakes.

I at least have evidence.

Yet you still believe that all things great and small came from common ancestor.

Yet you still believe in talking snakes?

I at least have evidence.

That one thing magically transformed into everything there is.

Wait, my view sounds to you like magic?

That's odd, for your view, that God formed a woman from a rib, seems like magic to me.

I was trusting in science, not magic.

Surley its not that great a leap to see all the complexity of life and realize there was a designer behind it all.

And could that "designer" be nothing more than the laws of physics?

And please don't call me Surley.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Since we are presently in the last days, IF you live long enough, you will see that God's Truth will be made apparent to "ALL FLESH". Act 2:17 Can you tell us HOW God will accomplish this feat to atheists, agnostics and phonies?

Anti Theists are always wrong, so they serve as an antithesis: exact opposite - contrasting words or ideas. This is why people have to be in or out with God. They can not jump back and forth. There is no middle ground and there are no fence sitters.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And could that "designer" be nothing more than the laws of physics?

Exactly, the God that gives us the Moral Laws is the same God that gives us the laws of physics. Also He gives us free will. So the problem is when we use our free will to break or violate the law. That is why God has a plan of redemption and restoration to redeem and restore all of creation back to God's plan and purpose.

If your car is broken and does not run right would you consider it a miracle if a mechanic would fix the problem and restore the car back to the performance the car was designed to have?

I at least have evidence.

We have tons of evidence that the Bible is 100% accurate and true. If your so evidence based then why do you not believe the evidence that testifies for the Bible as the Written word of God.